@andrejlevkovitch Sounds perfectly fine. Crundles are over double the size of geese and have arms and claws robust enough to facilitate them having legendary climbing skill, so saying they aren't more dangerous than geese strikes me as uninformed or disingenuous. At any rate, armor does not and should not make a bumbling moron invulnerable. It's not like the vanilla armor is full plate: it's a breastplate that doesn't cover the arms at all, chainmail which doesn't protect against blunt force at all, and an open-faced helmet.

IMHO, fauna is now overpowered. Several crandles can beat inexperienced military squad that is using steel armor. Common, crandles aren't more dangerous then geese

@Moonwarden64 I did the same in a vanilla world and found that the titan had no combat skills there either. My theory now is that some vanilla bug is preventing titans / FBs from receiving natural skills despite them being assigned natural skills in their files.

tested with only your mod and embarked on a shrine, the titan there had no combat skills

they also seem to not have vanilla skills then

@Moonwarden64 They have level 6 natural skills in the vanilla creatures.lua, and this mod attempts to add another 6 for a total of 12 (since normally natural skills add together). So even without this mod they should have 6, unless for some reason natural skills aren't getting applied to invading FBs and Titans in general.

they have vanilla combat skills now?

@Moonwarden64 Odd, I'm unsure why that would be the case. Do the invading FBs / Titans have their vanilla combat skills then or do they show up with none? Also, were they showing up with the vanilla combat skills (level 6 or "talented") before I updated them?

wierd "behavior" going on, the forgotten beasties and titans that are invading my fort have none of the combat skills. But if I spawn the same FB using the gui/sandbox from DFhack the spawn with their skills, and the other fun thingies that spawn from the gem clusters and walls also have the announced combat skills. (world gen after the update too)

@Moonwarden64 Yeah, it should be possible through lua. Will aim to give FBs and Titans the same sort of skill levels as the other megabeasts. I should be able to put out the update today, assuming I don't run into unexpected problems.

Would it be possible to make a version for procedural generation creatures likes FBs and Titans? The animals are quite a formidable match for the FBs now

@Sylvanas_III If you wanted to give them an attack that uses the tail, you could assign any skill to it (I'd probably pick GRASP_STRIKE or STANCE_STRIKE) and bring that skill up to the same level as their biting at 8. If the tail is just going to be used for wrestling, I already gave them 8 wrestling skill which is higher than what the majority of creatures get (though they'll still struggle to wrestle things larger than themselves, which is most things for the non-giant snakes).

Followup: if I were to add a grasping tail to constrictor snakes, what skills would I want to add to them if I wanted to make them in-line with everything else?

@Sylvanas_III You'd have to add the skill boosts manually. This mod buffs dragons' existing skills, whereas that mod's dragon has the vanilla skill levels. Dragons with this mod have 12 MELEE_COMBAT, 12 BITE, 12 GRASP_STRIKE, and 12 WRESTLING in total (the other skills are at the vanilla levels).

Does this affect dragons at all? I'm using the Red Dragon mod, which doesn't have a compat patch, and want to know if I need to add skill boosts manually or if dragons are skilled already.

This is awesome, thank you.

@perilous3d No. I might have given the snakes a higher biting skill, but keep in mind that the snakes (with the exception of giant versions) are tiny and therefore weak and easy to kill. Their size prevents them from being too effective in either biting or wrestling. Horses on the other hand are huge and that drastically increases the effectiveness of their attacks, especially when combined with skill. As such, horses are already amply dangerous and giving them more skill would be problematic given that you can embark with them. As for flattening the skill levels, that would kill variety and turn things into a pure size contest for the most part. Not very interesting to me, and not realistic either.

youre severely underestimating horses and over estimating constrictors, perhaps a more flat skill spread and let the creatures physical attributes make up the difference? a horse can take your hat off looking backward over their shoulder and choose which toe to step on with their front hoof (amazing when you consider that can't see below them like that)

@Zeyon Sounds good, feel free!

hey this is a very neat mod that address some of the problems I've had in my mod mfork and i'm wondering if you would be opposed to me integrating your mod?
I'll provide credit of course!

a random badger boar wounded 9 of my dwarves and nearly killed 1

@Nactarune No, but it'll effectively buff the civilization because the included animal people will still get natural skills.

With the new update will it conflict with mods that already adds animal people civs like Simple Animal People ?

mod authors on their way to pick a nice picture of some kittens for the "Animals will now appropriately eviscerate dwarves" mod

I'll likely give the non-civilized [CAN_LEARN] creatures natural skills when I next update this, it'll be more consistent that way. Another thing I might do is increase the skill buffs for megabeasts and semi-megabeasts.

Good to know! And thanks for the response

@leithykins Creatures like harpies, satyrs, and troglodytes are in a sort of a grey area where they have the [CAN_LEARN] tag (and therefore can learn skills like the civilized creatures can) but have no civilization, which makes it debatable whether this mod should cover them or not. I did give a couple [CAN_LEARN] creatures like ogres and trolls natural skills since I thought it couldn't hurt to make those extra fearsome, but I wasn't sure about the others.

Great mod! I noticed that at least harpies were missed, or I assume they should have some skills. Thanks for making this mod, it has caused lots of fun.

Fantastic mod!

@Morwaul War / Hunting trained creatures will have the same natural skills as the normal creature. As far as I'm aware, it's not possible to assign them different natural skills.

This seems great. Does this do anything with war / hunter training once tamed?

based mod

@Nactarune That's planned. It shouldn't take too long when I have a moment.

Would you mind making one also for More Vanilla Creatures for the new creatures added, if it's not too much to ask ? Cheers!

Also really appreciate all the mods you're making !