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STAR WARS™ Empire at War: Gold Pack >  Workshop > STEINER MODDING GROUP OFFICIAL's Workshop > Awakening of the Rebellion 2.11.9: Jump To Hyperspace > Discussions
Awakening of the Rebellion 2.11.9: Jump To Hyperspace
Description Discussions930 Comments11523 Change Notes
The Viking of D14 4 Jun, 2021 @ 3:21pm
Imperial Navy pop balance
So to start off I've been an Empire main for a while, and I've noticed what I feel is a shift in the meta for this faction. My assumption is that it stems from the new tactical pop system added in this version. I find that my original Imperial fleet composition has had to change drastically, (bear in mind I knew it was going to with a space re-work) however I don't feel as though you can play AS the Empire, with a dominant capital ship line with a weakness to fighter/bomber attacks.

Now to get to the core of what I believe to be the issue, the pop cap system, I remember in 2.8 being able to bring in 4 ISD2's 4 NebulonB2's and 4 Lancers and being able to competently dominate almost any opposition the rebels throw at you. (Yes Lancer's were OP back them and it's good to have them nerfed but that's not the focus of this topic) Now in 2.9 I can only bring in a MAX of 4 ISD2's but there's almost NO support units. Tried switching it up and only bringing in 2 of those with as much TonFalk support as possible (corvetts seem to get ripped apart very easily now so I rely on fighters (advanced ones)) but it seems the Rebels are still able to plow right through anything the Empire has.

For specifics an ISD2 takes up 46 pop points that's almost 1/4 of your capacity and an advance load-out Tonfalk takes up 14 (I could be off a bit on that one) maybe it's just the capital ships, but I feel 46 for an ISD2, I feel that it makes capital ships almost useless.

NOW, I know a simple solution is to have a fleet composition of smaller ships with a wider variety for more flexibility in combat, but that's a tactic to be used as the Rebels NOT the Empire. The Empire should feel as though you're playing as the Empire, if that makes sense.

(side question- I've noticed that ISD's REALLY seem to struggle at taking out corvetts of any type, is this intended to be how it works, or is this a simple mistake?)

Lastly I just want to thank the mod team for doing such a great job on this update, I LOVE being able to target the hull of a hip and just rip it apart, as well as the new additions to the line up. Please understand that I'm not trying to B!tch about this one issue, I just want to give feedback the best way I know how. Keep up the great work my dudes and as always May the Force be with you.
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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
General Brooks  [developer] 5 Jun, 2021 @ 12:40pm 
Hi. Thank you for the detailed feedback. It is deliberate that you can't just rely on ISDs, and whilst pop cap is smaller, it is for the enemy too, and they do remain very powerful ships.
Them not being able to hit corvettes is intended, because we wanted to make corvettes more viable, whereas previously bigger ships tended to just be better in almost every case. TIE bombers on the other hand are excellent against corvettes.
I personally am playing through an empire campaign fielding 4 ISD1s (or 5 if i have Vader) and two ton falks, and that's proving able to tear through most enemies without too much of an issue.
To address your main point though, we are having internal discussions about the strength of capital ships and we may well adjust them, including the pop cap they take up. For 2.9 we wanted all ships to be useful rather than capitals being the best, but we may have overshot that slightly.
#1
The Viking of D14 7 Jun, 2021 @ 7:34am 
Originally posted by General Brooks:
Hi. Thank you for the detailed feedback. It is deliberate that you can't just rely on ISDs, and whilst pop cap is smaller, it is for the enemy too, and they do remain very powerful ships.
Them not being able to hit corvettes is intended, because we wanted to make corvettes more viable, whereas previously bigger ships tended to just be better in almost every case. TIE bombers on the other hand are excellent against corvettes.
I personally am playing through an empire campaign fielding 4 ISD1s (or 5 if i have Vader) and two ton falks, and that's proving able to tear through most enemies without too much of an issue.
To address your main point though, we are having internal discussions about the strength of capital ships and we may well adjust them, including the pop cap they take up. For 2.9 we wanted all ships to be useful rather than capitals being the best, but we may have overshot that slightly.

I appreciate the response man. You guys are still doing great work keep it up, Best mod I've had for EAW
#2
Vi 22 Jun, 2021 @ 8:05am 
Originally posted by The Viking of D14:
So to start off I've been an Empire main for a while, and I've noticed what I feel is a shift in the meta for this faction. My assumption is that it stems from the new tactical pop system added in this version. I find that my original Imperial fleet composition has had to change drastically, (bear in mind I knew it was going to with a space re-work) however I don't feel as though you can play AS the Empire, with a dominant capital ship line with a weakness to fighter/bomber attacks.

Now to get to the core of what I believe to be the issue, the pop cap system, I remember in 2.8 being able to bring in 4 ISD2's 4 NebulonB2's and 4 Lancers and being able to competently dominate almost any opposition the rebels throw at you. (Yes Lancer's were OP back them and it's good to have them nerfed but that's not the focus of this topic) Now in 2.9 I can only bring in a MAX of 4 ISD2's but there's almost NO support units. Tried switching it up and only bringing in 2 of those with as much TonFalk support as possible (corvetts seem to get ripped apart very easily now so I rely on fighters (advanced ones)) but it seems the Rebels are still able to plow right through anything the Empire has.

For specifics an ISD2 takes up 46 pop points that's almost 1/4 of your capacity and an advance load-out Tonfalk takes up 14 (I could be off a bit on that one) maybe it's just the capital ships, but I feel 46 for an ISD2, I feel that it makes capital ships almost useless.

NOW, I know a simple solution is to have a fleet composition of smaller ships with a wider variety for more flexibility in combat, but that's a tactic to be used as the Rebels NOT the Empire. The Empire should feel as though you're playing as the Empire, if that makes sense.

(side question- I've noticed that ISD's REALLY seem to struggle at taking out corvetts of any type, is this intended to be how it works, or is this a simple mistake?)

Lastly I just want to thank the mod team for doing such a great job on this update, I LOVE being able to target the hull of a hip and just rip it apart, as well as the new additions to the line up. Please understand that I'm not trying to B!tch about this one issue, I just want to give feedback the best way I know how. Keep up the great work my dudes and as always May the Force be with you.

You can still feel like the Empire, the composition of the starting fleet works great. But I normally go

x2 ISD I
x2 Victory I (or 1 i forget)
x4 Arquitens
x2 Dreadnought
x2 Carracks
Then Ton Falks or Gozantis to make up the difference.
This shreds pretty much everything. And makesure to get the advance loadouts for your ships, each Punisher bomber is worth like x4 regular TIE bombers. You can always go into the Factions.XML and change to Tactical Battle Pop limit to whatever you want for each faction. I find 400 for each side doesnt lag the game engine too much, just dont change the ground limit or the game bugs out.





Originally posted by General Brooks:
Hi. Thank you for the detailed feedback. It is deliberate that you can't just rely on ISDs, and whilst pop cap is smaller, it is for the enemy too, and they do remain very powerful ships.
Them not being able to hit corvettes is intended, because we wanted to make corvettes more viable, whereas previously bigger ships tended to just be better in almost every case. TIE bombers on the other hand are excellent against corvettes.
I personally am playing through an empire campaign fielding 4 ISD1s (or 5 if i have Vader) and two ton falks, and that's proving able to tear through most enemies without too much of an issue.
To address your main point though, we are having internal discussions about the strength of capital ships and we may well adjust them, including the pop cap they take up. For 2.9 we wanted all ships to be useful rather than capitals being the best, but we may have overshot that slightly.

The thing I'm having trouble with is... The Gozantis themselves are REALLY good. Like really really good. The Falks are better carriers and give you more fighters for the same pop as 2 gozanti units, but the gozantis shred enemy fighters, bombers, gunships and small corvettes and it's like im using the gozantis as my fighters and the actual fighters to support them, not the other way around. Especially since the AI fighters seem to primary my own TIEs and basically the TIEs act as an extra health bar for the Gozantis.
#3
samuel.thomas.russell 22 Jun, 2021 @ 8:24am 
I will say that as rebels the gozantis are themselves priority targets for my hunter corvettes. If I ignore them they will shred my fighters.
#4
Vi 22 Jun, 2021 @ 8:40am 
Originally posted by samuel.thomas.russell:
I will say that as rebels the gozantis are themselves priority targets for my hunter corvettes. If I ignore them they will shred my fighters.
Yeah Gozanti's are actually disgustingly OP, I never stop using them and win against Rebels fighter swarms every time with them. I would like to see regular TIE Fighter gozanti unit pop and cost reduced, but the gozantis themselves nerfed. Seriously 1 gozanti unit is as good as a CR-90 or better at killing fighters. So you bring x3 Fighter and x3 bomber gozantis, the bomber ones basically give you x3 free anti-fighter corvettes as well as the bombers they bring....
#5
chrisma 19 Jul, 2021 @ 3:03pm 
New to the mod, but wondered about the reasoning of 'such a low' population cap as well.

Reading The Viking of D14 argument of a distinct 'imperial faction' playstyle - which fits to lore and real life - here's an idea:

if one wants to simulate asymmetric 'naval' battles, why not raise the 'tactical population' price for non-capitals - while reducing it for capitals at the same time ?
Simulating hubris, or some sort of corruption that undermines the empire as it did the CIS...

The 'alert imperial officer' will notice that a fleet of capitals isn't sustainable against 'torpedo boat' swarms and will learn to make do with less as e.g. suggested by MuSHr00mpiCKl3s' fleet composition.

I'm not familiar with e.g. the Thrawn novels, but the 'Clone War' animation seems to characterize him as such - and to imitate exploiting tactical advantages as a strategy could be a rewarding goal for the 'imperial' player.

Just my impression.
#6
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