@PrimetimeCasual
as far as i can tell this mod doesnt alter the thrust behaviour in relation to the vanilla behaviour.
if you want a mod where thrusterplacement matter realistic thrusters ( https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=575893643 ) might be something that interests you.

Does thruster placement matter? Or is it just drag / lift vs centre of mass?

you want your center of drag/lift behind your center of mass directly in line with the direction of travel.

@Souls
center of mass above cente rof lift means it rotates as it wants the mass to be lower than the list and thus you want to have theyre center of mass below the center of lift.

the control surfaces should work if mounted on a rotor or hinge but if they are too small they might have no noticeable impact.

someone might be able to help you with direct advice on the construction if you join the discord linked inside the moddescription and share some screenshots or so of the situation at hand.

@Abisius I managed to get the CoL right under CoM, about a quarter of a block lower, and it still just pulls up and loops into it's own doom as soon as airborne. Also, my control surfaces don't seem to have ANY impact on the flight, which may be the primary issue, maybe if I could correct my trajectory I could get control over the thing.

I just tried with some Gyros and it's completely manageable when I have any control over rotation at all.. I was hoping to use the control surfaces only, so that sucks..

@Souls
the shape of your grid has an influence on it, so maybee just reshaping some stuff helps.

i have atm a grid that has a tendency to nose up over distance due to the ramp i have at the back to get on board with a rover, though its manageable and just about 1-2° nose up at around half a km distance.

@Abisius Thanks. I'm trying to make a biplane, but it keeps pulling up wildly at the nose, I'm guessing because the center of lift is in front of the center of mass. It's weirdly hard to fix, I've moved all cargo and all batteries from around the middle of the plane to up the front but the CoM is still a bit behind CoL. Seeing what I can do to trim the tail down, hopefully lose some more weight from the rear.

@Souls
i usually aim to have the center of mass just slightly below the center of lift, toughly around half a block of the given gridsize, as i find it flys a bit more stable that way even with a single wind design.
besides that try to gradually increase the thickness of wings and structure instead of going up in a big wall to reduce drag if you have probs with drag and/or heat buildup as less drag also means less heat buildup.

Any rules of thumb regarding aerodynamic design? I'm assuming the center of mass and center of drag should basically line up on top of each other ideally?

@Rage Embodied
from what informations where given i would go more with bad aerodynamic design as no mentioning of another mod influencing how stuff flies where given, though i also have so far not used a mod that gives you wings to build with.

@MrMayhem [continuation]
IF IT DOES NOT: the Wing Block mod has a VERY rare issue where wheels do not play well with your airframe, this can cause extremely strange behavior despite most or all other airframes being unaffected, to resolve it: you have to remove the mod from your world and then re-add it after making a save of that world without the mod.

IF THAT DOES NOT WORK: your save is corrupted. Time to make a new world, and frankly, uninstall and reinstall everything, Steam will re-install all your mods so just wipe the board and assure the highest chance of success.

If that doesn't work, I'd say its time to just pick one or the other, and this one does have more applicability despite no custom blocks. But if you're on a fighter-jet kick, I'd do Wing Blocks.

Wing Blocks for MiGs, Sukhois, Mirages, F-15's, etc., this mod for Antanov, Tumansky, Airbus, space-stuff, interplanetary cargo ships and everything that doesn't come to mind from the former list.

@MrMayhem 2 possibilities, both related to two mods: you are using the Aerodynamic Wing Blocks mod alongside this mod, such as myself, and are encountering an uncommon glitch which occurs due to the overlapping combination of physics, the author of the other mod suggests disabling the physics aspect of that mod and using the blocks as cosmetics.

HOWEVER, you can troubleshoot this as I have used both mods in conjunction without issue for years: disable one of the two mods and test your game. If it persists, switch which mod is disabled and enabled and then try again.

In my experience: if it continues to persist, disable both, load the world, save, exit, enable either of the mods, preferably not both at once to start with, and see if the issue remains.

Much of the time, this permanently resolves the issue.

Still one of my favorite mods. Absolutely lovely, works perfectly in all my hours. Made an Antonov AN-225 to scale and it works, can even transport tanks! Also made an Mi-24 to scale and it works, and a MiG-25, Su-27, B-52, Il-76, Su-39 and they all work just marvelously :)) Thank you for the mod and the hours and hours of fun!

congratulation @MrMayhem you found out how you can build a ship that uses aerodynamics to lift its bow.
now you only need to find out how to build one that uses aerodynamics to lift its stern, to roll starboard and to roll port before combining them to have a stable flight.

and yep you grids form has a big impact on how the grid flies with aerodynamics in your world.

Build your ship better or you can disable the advanced simulation in options (under physics)

Is there anyway to disable the part where the it forces the nose of the plane up well flying? I have tried in the appdata folder but still cant seem to straiten that out part out.

I've seen online that this mod might affect how wind turbines work. Does it actually and if so then how exactly? I'm completely stuck on a new world with IO and the smelter needing 2mW of power and my turbines refusing to produce more than 100kW each with strong winds (over 1m/s)

@Paradoxon360
does it happen with just aerodynmaics and requirements in a fresh world too?
if not its probably something that happens in a specific modcombination.

the game crashes if the heat of an rentry is destroying blocks game frezzes crash no the deadly rentry isnt working for me ...

is there spezial limits configs maybe its becouse of to mitch sparks i dont know

The deadly reentry is awesome. Just blew up my ship in a splash of sparks. 10/10

@Малигос
the blueprint scren shouldnt even open if you open the admin menu and it doesnt open on my end, so if that happens i would say its something irregular that happens there.

nvm just alt+f10 oops

i was at work and had access to the console and files from my phone... the shift+alt+f10 menu is kinda weird too with the admin mod menu, the blueprint screen blocks the view, can't even make it transparent in the options, i'll check in that file directory, thank you!

@Малигос
so you manage a server without having access to se itself to join it as an admin to be able to check in on stuff and access settings made to be accessible from in world?

if that is the case i would recommend from my side that you either get a version of se you can use for it or get someone you trust to do that stuff for you.

besides that the file with the settings of the world are inside the world specific storage folder findeable under %appdata%\spaceengineersdedicated\saves\yourworldname\storage\571920453.sbm_sedrag but you might need to request access to it if you use a third party serverprovider as most of them dont allow access to the appdata area on default.

Is there a way to change the max speed in the configs? Im running a dedicated server so its kinda hard to press buttons to open a menu

It can Confuoco, as Ryunoske states though if you are using large grid this mod does not do the lift calculation by default, there is an addon mod that enables those functions here: https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2800215762

Hello, sorry, we had a talk here. Closed shape will do nothing, and if you are speaking about large grid - drag coefficients don't work, so any ship is a brick for this mod.
Multiple wings I think will work, but I suggest just trying it and comparing.

Hello. Question:
Does multiple layers of sloopes (wings) will help with lift? like multiwings?

Everything can be an insult, eh?

I want to build super ugly simple cargo plane. And was thinking how many minimal thrusts i need to be able lift off.
and second is worth additional 'profile' to keep closed shape that additional mass or get rid it :)

@Confuoco
i usually go with "does it look like it can fly with wings?" and if it looks like that is give it a trial and error tour till i find is ok how it flys.

"how to calculate how much lift force my design is giving me to lift cargo with wings :)?" Sadly, I dont give you enough information to be able to calculate this. The mod sort of short-cuts the lift calculation by determining how much drag should be converted to lift to make an approximation without causing a loop in the physics system (and clang). The bars that show up using the lift test feature shows you the % of lift in the test direction and the direction of lift.

Then you come on here and claim somehow terminal velocity is 20x off.

So I ran those numbers to check. At 20x cD, the terminal velocity of a large ship armor block is 20.8 m/s, 60x 12.12ms, and 1x 95m/s. I calculated the Terminal velocity at the atmosphere height i took this measurement should be 61.1m/s. Off yes ( i know this because i set the base cD a bit lower on purpose initially, and I do have a good reason why), but not by a factor of over 20x. This is the sort of testing thats valuable. Not somone just coming in and saying "I know your wrong, just change this specific code, trust me bro".

Accusing me of inventing problems that "dont exist"
Accusing me of gaslighting you, I was at work not focusing on your discussion I'm not going to be 100% accurate. This is basically assuming I was acting in bad faith when I was not.
Constantly nit-picking code instead of sticking to the problem statement and the evidence.
After a ton of back and forth on everything under the sun being wrong you finally got to talking about the drag of your ship, while being unclear you were talking about your ship
In the end we concluded the terminal velocity was close to expectation, so whats to change?

I have spent hundreds of hours in testing. This is what I object to:
"I see you are not very interested in developing the mod" - You apologized for this to be fair
"Denying me to upload with changes
2. Not reacting to my question if he would do it himself
3. I read "you could drop all your notes there" as "do it if you want, I don't care"
4. The said discord has dead channels with last message unanswered questions > year old" Insulting, and not accurate.
"why calculation is slightly wrong, your response - "no, it's accurate" - the variable name is accurate and i said, "no, a is accurate" not "no, it's accurate", so you continue to lie and misrepresent what I said.
"Got banned for a suggestion, so I was right. " I timed you out, for my sanity and yours, that's not a ban, you could continue the discussion later if you like.
"More than this, author is inadequate" Another insult

how to calculate how much lift force my design is giving me to lift cargo with wings :)?

No plan, just commenting on what you say, and how you treaded me. Everything I say about mechanics - I tested it.

About my aerodynamics mod: this mod has good foundation, UI features, visuals for center of mass and lift, particles. It is much work, and is more optimal to fix what is underperforming. I suggested it, and didn't recieve any certain answer. It could be anything from "Not interested" to "yes, I like it" or "I like this, but don't like that" - I would accept any of those and move on. Instead arguing with me without real arguments... After this I thought about making own, yet just I started modding a month ago, so we will see about that. Now I just need quick fixes for my world, which I'm doing.

@Ryunoske
So when is your aerodynamics mod coming out?

Continue to mock and belittle me, good plan.

You can disagree with facts all you want. Of course you see no evidence if you don't test it. You can close your eyes in front of an elephant and say it does not exist with this logic. You yourself told me that drag was lowered to compensate for update frequency. Now I tell you it is wrong, and you say "I don't believe it is low", hillarious.

Nothing to comment about drag coefficients, they are useless now, and I am not going to solve it.

You preferred to reply only to criticism about reenty, ignoring all others, cool.

I was polite when I joined discord, I even apologized for what I said here in my first messages. This resulted in you being unbelievably pretencious.

3) I have repeatedly accepted the criticism that reentry is a bit too sudden, and the particle is a bit too bright initially, but you seem to just ignore this and constantly bring it up again and again like I hadn't.

Your personal attacks and abuse need to stop. Your constant assumption that I'm acting in bad faith also needs to stop. You came into the discussion assuming bad intent.

2) Drag coefficients do work, they are not applied to large grids in the base mod. I pointed this out to you that this is by design, and if you want it applied you can run a sub mod that sets those coefficients. And if you are unhappy with those coefficients you can make your own sub mod and set your own. In addition to #2 as far as the drag coefficients and how they are applied, a lot of it is working the math in the way so the per-tick calculations are minimized. Maybe the reason you get C .88 as a multiplier seemingly being 'high' for a sleek design is this precomputation expecting that the squared after and I built that into the math.

1) I disagree with the base drag coefficient being too low, and i have not seen any evidence that it is too low that would be congruent with the overall design of the mod. (allowing vehicles and planes to both work well, the top speed of my f16 modeled plane matching reality, my boeing 747 top speed being near reality as well, being able to make gliders with a realistic enough glide slope)

To sum up: 1.drag is 5%, 2.drag coefficients are not working, but calculating 60 times per second. (Oh yes, for 15x6 sleak front projection small ship I got C = 0.88) +theese coeffs get raised in the 2-nd degree in resulting equation, which isi wrong. 3. Particles explode in your face and 3 sec later your ship is dead.

What you don't understand is I could make all changes I need and thats it. I reached out to improve your mod. You percieved it as an attack, and got 200% defensive, not willing to explain anything so I had to ask twice.

I don't need to subtract anything, I am flying horizontally. Man, I have a physics degree, stop trying to gaslight me. Trying to read through all this fog (what is base mod? what is 'that amount'?), what you are trying to say - is it is too late for increasing drag back up to 100%. Sure, but I didn't say you should, I said it so people can know. But also you have "mult" (great name) which people can use to adjust it back to weak drag.

Now whoever tested this did a bad job, and I don't care who you say they were, facts are facts. OR you could mention low drag in the description, but no.... Just as with drag coefficients not working for large grids, which people use 90% of the time - no info. And I tested the mod which enables it: all blocks coefficients = 0.75 except cockpit, wtf? And the coeff I got for super sleak 7x3 ship is 0.966.

If you think dividing the force applied per tick by the tickrate is wrong, set your drag mult to 6000.

You need to subtract acceleration due to gravity from your deceleration. And just to clarify I cannot significantly adjust the drag by that amount in the base mod without completely wrecking a lot of peoples builds so its not possible to adjust by that amount. I would also have to ignore the advice from people who tested this mod early on, which includes several professionals in the industry. I have considered slightly adjusting up the cD after I introduced the drag reduction mechanic due to shape, but there are a lot of consequences for doing it.

For everyone's info: just found out that drag is 4.89% of what it should be, if the author knew that you must not divide applied force by 60 to accomodate for update frequency (+he added own multiplier).

It is easy to check by outputting acceleration to an lcd with automatic lcds script, and printing out dragForce. Divide force by mass and you get deceleration you should have, but - there is almost no deceleration at any speed. Would it be right - the "mult" in dragsettings would make sense, because deceleration in pretty high, like in real world.

No, I should have clarified that I had not read through the discord messages and was going off the current context left on the steam forum. To avoid potentially misinforming ill retract the comment, thanks for the heads up!

@GreenDarkSteel
hope you did read through the discord communication before deciding that.
i for my part would say that just the few comments here definitly dont paint the full picture.