works with unlimited caps?Unlimit reborn
https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3295368629&searchtext=unli%2Cit

@DICK NUTS You understand my relationship with CE perfectly.

@ohluitvaenri Definitely an option. My next mods are going to try and find ways to do fun combat things themed with the different dlc (but not requiring those dlc if possible). I am doing a big solid ponder on how to best implement my next mod. However, I've been working weekends and it'll be a bit before I get some free time again.

your mods are the best as alternative to CE, CE is great but to much for me.

im not sure this is the right place to suggest, but would it be possible to make a mod where armor% scales with durability? so lower durability = less armor?

@o0Zeke0o This *should* work with Yayo's, but you'd want to tweak the settings to adjust for their armor/AP values. Likely set to hard armor preset.

Adjust armor hardening towards 1 and weapon hardening up until you are happy with the results.

but if there's a mod to edit the global AP let me know

also is it fine using this mod with yayo's combat? i just want to change the armor pen to make it higher

"Doing a dev quicktest and spawning a set of cataphract armor, another pawn is using a starter bolt-action rifle. 156% armor vs 26% armor penetration. While many shots are blinking off the armor, the shooter is still able to damage the armored pawn sometimes, even for 15 damage.

Such damage wouldn't be possible in vanilla."

Wrong

156 armor - 26 = 130 armor

(Roll between 0 and 100)

if roll > 65 deals half damage
can't deal full damage though

but still, maybe he got hit in the hands or feet

the values in default armor multiplier are set to 2.0? so 20 melee with a mace still beats up a pawn with cataphract armor?

@Blood Drawing Symbol It applies to non-hostile entities. So allies, non-hostile animals, ect...

@Aeris I'll start taking a look. There is an enable logging toggle that does allow more clarity on calculations.

may i ask, what does the "Other" slides and options for? insects and mechs? or like neutrals?

It's not an issue of hitting hands or feet, the 15 damage was upon hitting an arm.

Is there an option to log the calculation into the console?

@DaMax It should, yes.

@Aeris this does seem odd. I agree with Gerewoatle that I would like to know where they were hit as there could be a couple things going on.

I am back. Internet access is a wonderful thing!

Does this also work on warcaskets?

@Aeris - Where on the pawn are the injuries occurring? Non-modded cataphract armor doesn't cover hands and feet.

Hey, this mod doesn't seem to work for me properly. I'm testing it with a large mod list as the only combat overhaul, with Thick Armor and Just A Flesh Would (reported as compatible) and with Gunplay to increse projectile speed - with no other mods affecting combat. The settings are set to hard armor (2.25/1.5).

Doing a dev quicktest and spawning a set of cataphract armor, another pawn is using a starter bolt-action rifle. 156% armor vs 26% armor penetration. While many shots are blinking off the armor, the shooter is still able to damage the armored pawn sometimes, even for 15 damage.

Such damage wouldn't be possible in vanilla.

Combine this with the mechanoid upgrades mod if you want to watch your centipedes eat several dozen diabolus shots to the face and fight scythers who take more fire than an entire boss raid.

I'm sure increasing weapon hardening would speed things up, but it's actually very funny to watch.

@hellisj likely yes, but they have their own balance targets. This will mess with their balance by, well, hardening the armor...

compability ce?

@SirProok - Sounds a little like that "cooking a chicken by slapping it hard enough" thing.

Update:
Patched another mod. While doing so, noticed that this mod was allowing flame damage to crack bones when armor was "pierced". Removed those shenanigans...

@L. Velociraptor Great! Glad to hear my theory-crafting was at least somewhat accurate.

@Mac Enjoy!

Seems to work with the GOAT Uuugggg's "Thick Armor" mod continued by Meme Goddess: https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3531630021

That mod, in short, makes armour that takes up multiple layers... apply per-layer. So stuff like Marine Armor that takes up two layers (outer, middle), counts for both layers when yer colonist wearing it gets shot in the chest.

Seems like a really fun way to have to prioritize the heavy armour targets, but I will warn you; If you've got mods like VFE - Pirates... Stuff like Warcaskets are hard nuts to crack even just with Thick Armor.

An actively maintained series of combat overhaul mods? In this economy?
Anyway, looking at the tables, the results of this mod look super awesome and I am looking forward to try them in my next save. The armor and accuracy shortfalls are my biggest gripe with vanilla, and it seems that I am not the only one.

I played for a bit, it feels waaaay better. Thanks for the update

@lucky_one 🍀 Maybe...

So I have been crawling through the mud while my pawns dropped like flies because of a bug?

Jokes aside, it was terrifying to see a centipede raid, almost impossible to take the fuckers down quickly. It was fun tho (If you like pain...)

@Caramel @gooberhead @lucky_one 🍀
Update:

Added in logic to prevent <0% AP from causing issues.

Found issue is armor logic that caused armor to register higher against high AP. This was a legacy of the old curve that I missed removing. Specifically really impacted end game mechs when targeted with especially high APs.

Fixed. Should now see damages in line with the tables in the pictures.

@gooberhead I got the same feeling ngl, late game raids become an absolute horror, but I am a masochist so I kept it!

really wanted to use this mod, but with how insanely powerful mechs become its just not possible without configuration. i dont wanna have to change every setting just to make the mod work. i like the idea but perhaps some different handling would be needed. thanks for your work.

[HardenedArmor] Determining hit part...
[HardenedArmor] Selected hit part: 胸部
[HardenedArmor] Armor calculation:
Raw Damage: 4.00, AP: -0.15
Post-Armor Damage: 2.00
Deflected: False, Diminished: True
[HardenedArmor] Scaled damage calculation:
ArmorRating (inferred): 0.55
ScaledArmor: 0.55, ScaledAP: NaN
Effectiveness: NaN
Final Damage (after diminish/deflect): NaN
[HardenedArmor] Checking for damage propagation from: 胸部
[HardenedArmor] Propagation roll failed (50% chance).

Vanilla Factions Expanded - Medieval 2's musket has -15% armor penetration. This mod has issues with negative numbers, which can cause the musket to deal unreasonable damage, with damage records showing NaN. It can instantly crush any part of a creature.

Now, it is always possible my quick assessment could err. I am just doing my best guess of what they are doing based on the study I did for building this mod.

I believe I've tweaked the values/methods in ways that are not normally tweaked. Using my math knowledge to reverse-engineer the result I want rather than patching the main methods.

I am hoping that no other modders got as computationally creative as I have and instead took a more direct route.

With some very narrow exceptions, like extended ranges, I abstract everything into a calculation rather then edit a core value.

Theoretically meaning that my mods tend to operate on effectively a different bandwidth than most mods, thus ensuring broad compatibility.

Once more mods get 1.6'd and I embark upon rebuilding a list to play where I'll *fingers crossed* prove out my theory to be correct.

@Crilltic they should compliment one another. I run my calculation after the normal armor check. This should mean that mechanic triggers, this mod reverse engineers their math then applies any further dampening to the damage.

This should cause more shots to be stopped (the basic function of that mod), and shots that do get through, to do less damage (the function of this mod).

I'm curious how this mod interacts with Thick Armor, which just got a fork (btw loving this and your other combat mods, they're fantastic)

@Mac

Simple Answer: No. Weapon hardening is a power of 1/x. Armor hardening is value/2.

Complex Answer: Still no. Because this mod runs the vanilla calculation first, the basic vanilla logic is in place.

The "hardening" effect is done by running the calculation again with new values. So an AH of 2, leaves the armor as it was, then uses the WH to determine how much of an extra reduction should happen as a result of the armor. Higher WH is exponentially more AP which results in less secondary reduction.

The result of this is the vanilla calculation is, in effect, run through a damage reduction which is calculated based on the armor. This is actually why it should work with other armor focused mods. I am actually tweaking damage, not armor.

@Brindav. They *should* work together, but I'd expect sum odd behavior to possibly pop up.

With the simplest of those being armor gets extra-hardened as the way I do the math should patch after they do their armor tweaks.

Do the default settings of "Hardened Armor" which set both multipliers to a flat 2 actually do anything since they are both multiplied equally? I am not too familiar with the vanilla armor calculations.

short question, yayo's combat has been updated and i'm thinking of using it for the munition system, is this mod compatible with it or should i disable yayo's armor tweaks ?

Thanks for your explanation! Love your mod!

@Aeris @brindav I am very familiar with Yayo's. They had been my go-to for combat. IF I can figure out a way to implement this in a way that makes me happy, then it will live in a toggle.

That said, I did extensive testing over the weekend and I watched 3-4 cataphract pawns from an ancient danger steam roll a tribal caravan (and then my tribal colony).

As such I am not certain any further balancing is required. That said, I'll play with it a bit and see what I think.

I primarily play no killbox, scavenger-tribals and have found the current balance very much to my liking.

My weapons are effective against normal (industrial and tribal) enemies, but markedly weaker than guns.

Good armor is a priority as the damage otherwise takes some time to recover from.

Mechs are terrifying until I have guns/armor.

I have also never yet felt I was suffering from mechanic chicanery cheating me out of what I felt was fair.

@Azure I've added images of the three curves (each preset setting)!

Yes, damage method is now the inverse root of weapon hardening hardening to determine new AP, armor is still scaled linearly but this results in low APs being more effective against medium armor rather than a punishing curve.

This curve is balanced to charge weaponry versus mech bosses.

Forgot to mention Yayo's Combat 3 which does exaclty what @brindav asked, a tech-level based threshold/multiplier, but I believe there should be weapons that punch above their tech level, such as warhammers and high caliber rifles and machine guns, so I'm not a fan of such arbitrary restrictions.

@SirProok regarding what @brindav said, Vanilla Combat Reloaded does this by removing minimum damage somehow:

"If your armor stat is above this value after subtracting weapon armor penetration, the armor will block all damage."

And Yayo experimented with damage threshold in Yayo's Combat 2 by assigning each armor an additional a minimum damage threshold value, based on its armor value.

Also CE used to be famous for incompatiblity, because it used threshold values for each armor, instead of vanilla armor %.

Damage threshold is a cool concept and I love to see it in games since I saw the difference it makes between Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas.

What is the new damage curve now? Does it mean that the vanilla damage mechanics is tweaked in this mod now?