@A Literal Spider The current version works the same way as before, the only difference is that it now acts as and completely replaces the vanilla_materials and vanilla_bodies modules and thus it needs to be loaded above any other mod that interacts with those to avoid compatibility issues. I also had to make the nerve healing mod its own standalone version of this mod since there was no longer a way to implement it as a small add-on patch (loading the two mods together will abort worldgen).

So.... Mod is like... semi-deprecated?

@A Literal Spider That's normal, I had to remake the mod in a different way following a Dwarf Fortress update that prohibited the previous implementation from being used in fortress and adventure mode (it still worked in arena mode).

It says that it conflicts with [vanilla_materials] and [vanilla_bodies] for some reason. It worked fine and I haven't downloaded any other mods for a long time so Idk why it's suddenly not compatible anymore. Cheers.

Ohhhh, I was trying to use them both at once. I'll only use one then, thanks.

@Johnny John Johnson You'd also get the same issue if you loaded this and the Peripheral Nerve Healing version of the mod at the same time.

@Johnny John Johnson Verify that you're using version 1.4 of the mod. Previous versions are incompatible with the current game version.

Never mind, I actually can't figure out what the duplicate is because taking the advanced agriculture mods off the list wasn't working.

There's an incompatibility with Advanced Agriculture, error log is saying 404 duplicates.

@Nactarune The sucky part is that if it isn't mentioned in the mod description you can't know with 100% certainty without looking at the mod's files (in which select mods will be full of "SELECT" and cut mods will be full of "CUT"). Sometimes a mod (such as FFF) will use select for some stuff and cut for others. But most of the time a mod will use select unless it needs to do something where select wouldn't work. Select can be used to add tokens or edit tokens that are unique, but it can't remove tokens or replace tokens where you can have more than one of the same token in effect (unless it's for creatures because for editing creatures APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION lets us do pretty much anything with a select patch) so CUT must be used to do things like remove attacks from weapons, edit existing weapon attacks, or to remove procedurally-generated instruments from a civilization, for instance.

Ohh I appreciate the clarification thank you I understand now but how would I know if the mod is a select or cut / replace type ?

@Nactarune Load order often doesn't matter, but when it does (it starts to matter when mods are interacting with the same things) you'll generally want vanilla module replacer type mods like this or Masterfork first, followed by cut / replace mods, with select patch mods at the bottom. This is loading mods in order of precision: vanilla module replacers replace whole modules' worth of things, cut / replace mods replace specific things within modules, and select patches edit specific details about specific things. You can have the vanilla module replacer replacing the vanilla materials module, then have the cut / replace mod replace iron with its own version of iron, then have the select patch make the iron count as being wood, but in any other order you either get a worldgen crash or some changes to iron get lost.

Thanks so much for the advice! Do you know any other mods that being on top are better ?

@Nactarune Top is better, it avoids any potential load order issues. There's no benefit to putting this at the bottom currently, because everything this mod changes are things that other mods couldn't change without being vanilla module replacers themselves.

Thanks got it, it works and is it better if I just put this mod at the top of my modlist or should it just be at the bottom ?

@Nactarune This isn't incompatible with Dry Mines, I was just able to run them together without any duplicate object errors. You could get those errors if you loaded this mod after Dry Mines though, which is why this mod should be loaded before any mods that modify anything in "vanilla materials" or "vanilla bodies." And yes, this mod acts as vanilla materials so mods that require vanilla materials can be loaded after this mod instead. It's only strictly necessary to remove "[REQUIRES_ID_BEFORE_ME:vanilla_materials]," but swapping it to "[REQUIRES_ID_BEFORE_ME:Tougher_Bodies]" is useful to avoid accidentally loading the mod before Tougher Bodies.

Does mods requiring the vanilla materials not work when removing it or does tougher bodies act like vanilla materials ( so I would just go into the info.txt and replace [REQUIRES_ID_BEFORE_ME:vanilla_materials] to [REQUIRES_ID_BEFORE_ME:Tougher_Bodies] ), would that work ?

Found an incompatibility with clinodev's Dry Mines (No Aquifers Mod) , the error log says there's duplicates:

Duplicate Object: inorganic SILICEOUS_OOZE
Duplicate Object: inorganic CALCAREOUS_OOZE
Duplicate Object: inorganic PELAGIC_CLAY
Duplicate Object: inorganic PEAT
Duplicate Object: inorganic SAND_RED
Duplicate Object: inorganic SAND_BLACK
Duplicate Object: inorganic SAND_WHITE
Duplicate Object: inorganic SAND_YELLOW
Duplicate Object: inorganic SAND_TAN
Duplicate Object: inorganic SILT
Duplicate Object: inorganic LOAMY_SAND
Duplicate Object: inorganic SILT_LOAM
Duplicate Object: inorganic SANDY_LOAM
Duplicate Object: inorganic LOAM
Duplicate Object: inorganic SILTY_CLAY_LOAM
Duplicate Object: inorganic SANDY_CLAY_LOAM
Duplicate Object: inorganic PUDDINGSTONE
Duplicate Object: inorganic CONGLOMERATE
Duplicate Object: inorganic SANDSTONE

@Kraft ☢ Squad The 1.4 version doesn't let you create the world until you remove them both (it's marked as incompatible with them so it'll disable the "create world" button), so it must've been the 1.3 version (which isn't marked as incompatible with them) as well.

Oh I didnt know they needed to be removed, I thought just using the load order it would overwrite, I guess that explains the issue

@Kraft ☢ Squad Was this with version 1.4 with the "vanilla materials" and "vanilla bodies" modules removed from your load order? 1.3 had that issue with 52.01+ versions of Dwarf Fortress, which is why I had to remake the mod using a different method in 1.4.

This mod seems to case a world gen crash for me, spine and chitin - not sure if its a conflict with a different mod but removing this one fixed the crashes

@Moonwarden64 It's a consequence of the higher fracture values. It happens when an incoming force is strong enough to make the material yield but not strong enough to fracture it.

also is there anything special you edited for skin, fat and muscle to deform (being dented) instead of just tearing appart? Or is that a consequence of the overall stronger tissues?

for now its time to edit the vanilla files with the mod values

Unfortunately, SELECT_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE doesn't seem to work either (it doesn't prevent loading a world but has no effect). This means this mod will be broken until Kitfox fixes CUT_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE, which seemingly broke for Fortress and Adventure modes (but not Arena Mode) in 52.01.

@Moonwarden64 I see. Seems like a good time to work on converting this to a SELECT patch then. I'll indicate that this needs an update in the title in the meantime.

And
Duplicate Object: tissue_template FEATHER_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template EYELASH_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template EYEBROW_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template SIDEBURNS_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template MOUSTACHE_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template CHIN_WHISKERS_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template CHEEK_WHISKERS_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template HAIR_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template CARTILAGE_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template HOOF_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template HORN_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template SKIN_TEMPLATE

Removing only the tougher material template file also reveals these ones:
Duplicate Object: tissue_template SPINE_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template CHITIN_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template BRAIN_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template NERVE_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template IVORY_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template TOOTH_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template TALON_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template CLAW_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template NAIL_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: tissue_template SCALE_TEMPLATE

So this mod is triggering the new pop-up for duplicate raws.
The error log is showing:
Duplicate Object: material_template CHITIN_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: material_template NERVE_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: material_template SCALE_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: material_template CARTILAGE_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: material_template BONE_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: material_template SINEW_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: material_template MUSCLE_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: material_template FAT_TEMPLATE
Duplicate Object: material_template SKIN_TEMPLATE

@Sylvanas_III Yes, it'll apply to modded creatures if they use these materials. As for incompatibilities, Tanning Redux isn't compatible out of the box since both mods cut/replace the skin template, but you can get them working together by loading this mod after it and adding the [PEARL] token to this mod's skin material template. Masterfork has its own similar overhaul for body materials, loading this mod after it would overwrite its changes to these materials. The most significant difference between this mod and Mfork's changes to these materials is that I buffed muscle's resistance to indirect damage more heavily.

Does this have any notable incompatibilities, and does it automatically apply to modded creatures?

I absolutely love this!

I always found it so goofy how easily a Dwarves spine can be broken, even through metal armor, which usually was splinted and would prevent such torque.

@Snowstar837 There wouldn't be a point in making such a mod; the vanilla numbers edited here are mostly very low (likely placeholder) values and doubling them would have no noticeable impact.

Would you be willing to make a "lite" version of this mod that only doubles the vanilla values at most (vs how some go up 40x)? Thanks for your work!

@anopiko I managed to get it to work with the "Tanning Redux" mod by adding [PEARL] token to the bottom of [MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SKIN_TEMPLATE] (right before [ROTS]) in the "material_template_tougher" text file

Great mod! I wonder could you make a patch to use it together with "leather output scales with creature size" mod?

@Moonwarden64 It doesn't, leather is a separate material from skin and has its own properties. I considered applying this mod's skin changes to leather but decided to keep the scope of this mod purely to body materials.

I just realized something... does the overall increase in the strenght of skin also means that leather is a stronger material?

@GlongsAnonymous No, it can be loaded wherever as long as it's not before the vanilla files it patches.

Is there any specific load order?

Very interested in this, will give it a go in my new world today :]

@Raedyohed The syndrome already doesn't interfere with normal interactions and is already something that activates after a delay. I’m still investigating if better implementations are possible, but it does work perfectly well as-is. Btw, I'd prefer discussion about the syndrome to be in the comment section of the mod that has the syndrome, to avoid confusion about what this mod includes.

@lmlsna Don't syndromes have their own cooldown or expiration clocks? Just use a variation of CE_HEAL_NERVES with START END values that give time for healing but don't allow for the syndrome to last too long and interfere with normal interactions. Would that work?

Good points. I was thinking specifically in adventure mode, that might cause some strange situations, on occasion. But true, it's unlikely to matter much. Something you can't exploit easily. Yes, a separate mod is not a bad idea, if someone dislikes the idea, in any case.

But yeah, I guess I should make the syndrome a separate mod.

@Digganob You're correct that that could happen (which is why I at first tried to make the effect a chronic, gradual healing), but I don’t see it as much of a problem. It’s unlikely such an extreme example like that would happen unless the creature in question is in combat receiving significant wounds very often and not dying. And I’m perfectly fine with a peripheral nerve taking less than 2 weeks to heal in some cases, they’re ultimately just a small part of the injury system that shouldn’t be the focal point.

I'd love it without the syndrome. I get it and I like the creative workaround, but I don't think that's the way I want nerve regeneration implemented, personally. But wow I *love* the rest of this. I'd be very interested in a version without the syndrome.

I think that syndrome may cause problems. What if I get stabbed, take no nerve damage, but still have the syndrome applied, and then have nerve damage taken nearly two weeks later be healed in less than a day by the syndrome previously? Is there any mechanism to prevent that? Does the syndrome only show up if nerve damage has actually been taken?

By "in the future," I guess I meant the very immediate future.