If there is, I don't know what the cvar is or what the default Advanced/Expert values are for it.

I was referring to the time it takes for her to be startled. Apparently she is startled one second quicker on Expert than Advanced. Is it possible to change her timer?

Unfortunately it's hard-coded for her to insta-kill on any mutation using Expert as a base. I've tried everything, but unfortunately while there seems to be a parameter to not have her not kill survivors ("z_witch_always_kills"), it doesn't actually function in-game. There's a lot of cvars like that in L4D2.

Is it possible to change the witch's aggression timer to match advanced, or is it hard coded like her instant kill?

It's likely Valve would have doubled their scratch damage for Veteran. The exceptions are the charger (which uses addition) and the hunter (its unusually high scratch damage.)

Since you're the main person weighing in, do you think it's fine to leave special infected scratch damage at 12 as is, or do you think it should be lowered to 10 to be consistent with the way damage is scaled? 12 was chosen as a middleground between 5 and 20, but obviously doubling 5 would yield 10 and doubling 10 would yield 20, so maybe that would be better.

Thanks!

You're right, it should be 0.66 instead of 0.65. I've changed it accordingly.

If you don't mind, can you change the Non-Headshot Damage Factor to 0.66 instead of 0.65? It's the same reason I suggested the tank damage be increased by 1 point. Common Infected HP values are: Easy (50 / 2 = 25), Normal (50 / 1 = 50), Advanced (50 / 0.75 = 66), True Veteran (50 / 0.66 = 75), Expert (50 / 0.5 = 100).

Stuff like that is hard-coded. Plus I wouldn't want to replace a game mode people have been playing for years with something different.

Is it not possible to edit Expert's damage values so that it matches Veteran?

Unfortunately as I understand it, you'd need to modify the game's source code as in-game difficulties are coded differently. They're assigned numbers: 1 (Easy), 2 (Normal), 3 (Advanced), and 4 (Expert). We'd need to code in a difficulty 5 for the game to call in order for Veteran to function as a true difficulty. Not available to us right now as we don't have the source code. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's just not in the cards right now.

Nice. Is it possible to replace Expert difficulty with Veteran instead of having it be a mutation? That way it can be used by Steam groups and third party servers for co-op campaigns.

Okay, I agree and I've changed it to 49.

Valve made it so that the difference between whether or not you can survive 1 more hit at 100 HP from a tank is 1 point.

Normal (not 23, but 24 instead of 25), Advanced (not 32, but 33 instead of 34), so Veteran should be (not 48, but 49 instead of 50).

Why's that?

If you don't mind, can you increase the tank damage from 48 to 49?

So far I haven't found any bugs, it's a great balance for newer players and single player mode.

The new mutation, Veteran 2, based on creating a middleground between Advanced and Expert specifically created using Expert as a basis, has been released: https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3537156546

That's probably what's going to happen, yes.

Actually the common infected should keep their Expert mode health. Reducing their damage is good enough.

Already working on it. My playtest build is pretty close to what you're looking for, I just need to do some more work on it.

https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/profiles/76561198024011167

I think a good intermediary would be Expert but common infected have the same health as Advanced and the damage you take from infected and self/friendly fire are halved (common infected deal 10 instead of 20, tank deals 50 instead of instant down, witch no longer instant kills, friendly fire from shotgun can no longer instant down, etc). It will keep Expert's improved infected AI and spawns, and the mode's scarce healing items, making it noticeably harder than Advanced yet still fair.

Yes I actually consulted that video to get a gauge on how to modify my second Veteran difficulty mutation. If you know where to find that content creator's Steam profile, please link it to me because I'd like to talk to him about what thoughts he has for an intermediary difficulty to prepare people for Expert.

I found this funny video and was surprised to see just how few people can actually beat Expert: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KPrbsHTf8U

This specific add-on we're commenting on right now isn't meant to be a rebalance of Expert, or meant to make Expert more manageable, or rectify glaring issues with that game mode. It's meant to be an intermediary between Advanced and Expert. It's its own thing. To that end, it's already how I want it.

HOWEVER, I more than likely may be working on a different mutation that can address what you're talking about. I've already drafted it up, it just needs more additional work and playtesting.

I was referring to the special infected, not your teammates. They become more clever and effective compared to Advanced. Is it possible to edit the tank's damage on Expert so he doesn't instantly incapacitate? It seems the main problem with Expert is the ridiculous damage self/friendly fire and the infected deal, not the infected's improved AI and health.

I've tried it, there's no noticeable increase in AI. It must only be applied to Expert mode itself. Also basing it off of Expert has tons of other ramifications for the mutation; witches kill instead of incap, tank rocks and punches incap, common infected health is increased, etc. That wikipedia isn't as complete as you might think so you'd have no way of knowing all the hidden changes behind the scenes that Expert applies and doesn't tell you about. Needless to say I don't want to edit a mutation that I feel has been perfectly suitable for 7 years. If you want improved AI, I can recommend Left 4 Bots 2, Improved Bots (Advanced), and the Competitive-Bots+ mods on the Workshop.

I think it would be best to use Expert as the base for this mod due to having improved AI over Advanced, just with lower damage so you don't have to play almost perfectly. You can find how the difficulty changes the AI and damage on the wiki: https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/Difficulty

Yes, it adds mutations to the mutation list.

Does this actually add a mode to the list, or does is it still listed as Expert? It's not showing up for me if it's supposed to.

for me i noticed far less common spawning

Can you or anybody create a script that reduces the expert common infected damage to 10 (front) and 5 (back). Please

just did a campaign to test this mod, i super loved it :D
100/10

This is exactly what my group was looking for, a in between difficulty. We will try this out tonight on a custom campaign ! I'll drop a feedback later.

I don't know, I'd say 100, since they incap you instantly there.

How much damage do tanks do on Expert?

Are you still maintaining this mod? I think a good way to buff the Tank a little would be to increase his damage from 33 to 50.

https://left4dead.fandom.com/wiki/Difficulty

Take a look if you are interested, I wouldn't be able to see why am I so "safe" even with bots on Veteran difficulty, apart from scripted events of course, while on Expert I'm suddenly scared of close-quarter combat with SI and being bombarded with hordes left and right. If only CI wouldn't just destroy helpless bots with their insane damage in seconds.. Tank, for example, I'm completely fine with him being a real menace, because, well, that's a TANK, he can incapacitate us as much as he wants and that's my problem, being a bad leader for bots.

Nope, Tank got 8k health on Expert and 6k on advanced. He's not as menacing even in his moves, you can easily outrun him, while on Expert he's extremely good at cutting you and throwing rocks with sniper precision. SI damage numbers also a lot higher, for example:"The Jockey does 12 damage per hit while riding a Survivor and 20 damage per claw." for Expert and "The Jockey does 8 damage per hit while riding a Survivor and 5 damage per claw." for Advanced. There's A LOT of small things like these, even in how Director works (Hordes more often, less first aid kits overall, etc). It's almost a completely diffirent feeling compared to Advanced overall, which is really fascinating if you are trying to understand what really makes the diffirence.

Thanks. You say you miss everything from Expert except 20 CI damage... could you clarify what's missing? Are you referring to SI scratch power? Tank health is the same on Advanced and Expert. I believe. I'm fairly sure that SI damage is the same on Advanced and Expert. The biggest difference is the 20 CI damage honestly.

That's ALMOST the ideal difficulty for singleplayer runs and I'm surprised that you are literally the only one who understood the concept of fun gameplay without pure agony of some levels on expert or borderline cheating (no commons/specials/enless ammo, etc). However, it could be still too easy for someone kind of experienced with L4D systems, that's why I've tried your realism-veteran version. Again, close, really close! After ending a couple of campaigns, I finally get it: I miss everything from Expert, apart from insane common-infected damage.

Would be great to see another great mutation from you, but this time it's something like "Professional" difficulty, where literally nothing from Expert has changed, apart from commons damage (10 from the front? 5, maybe, but that could be too easy, I don't know).

I've looked everywhere for that small change, but there's nothing even remotely close..

Judging by the code, I'm assuming no matter what difficulty you choose, it makes the difficulty "hard" (advanced) before any of your additions.

That's what i was asking you. I want to change this addon to my liking and i don't know how to do it. I don't want to publish another version or something, i just want to know for my personal use.

There is a parameter to set the tank health. There may be a way to change his punch damage, I'm not sure. However I won't be changing this. The only real difference tank punch damage affects is how many punches it takes to incap you. 34 would be a guaranteed three-punch KO from max health, and considering this is harder than Advanced, most players will likely go down in two. Personally I think that's too punishing; I think three hits from not full health is fine. Consider also that the tank tends to focus aggro on one player and juggle them in a corner anyway. If you don't like that, you're free to modify the parameters of this mutation yourself, just credit me if you publish it on the Workshop.

Is there any way to modify this addon so the tank is not so weak? He only has 6000 HP and deals like 34 damage per punch. I want to make him stronger, not like in expert difficulty but stronger.

can you add me for friend,idk how to play this mod with friends

Can you add another variant for United We Stand Co-op?
I just really like playing United We Stand cause it's fun.

It doesn't matter, the mutation is the same no matter what difficulty you choose.

when i select the mutation and when i hit single player and it asks for what difficulty i want what do i select?