So far im liking what this mod has to offer, but I have a question. If the server I was running wanted to have flamethrowers can I enable them somehow?

bullet drop and velocity as well?



also a Pacific theatre would be nice

Originally posted by Sgt. P. Snake 70th ID:

So far im liking what this mod has to offer, but I have a question. If the server I was running wanted to have flamethrowers can I enable them somehow?

I plan on re-enabling the flamethrowers in 1.1 once I can completely balance them.

Originally posted by the humble noob:

i think that you should remove the bazooka/panzerfaust/piat from the support class, have 2 supports in the support squad and just add an engineer class that has stuff like the bazooka but no meachine guns (currently in the german support class you can take an mg34 and a panzerfuast)

True. I didnt think about this as it's designed for closed-sessions and not public servers per se. I'll rework the class system.

Originally posted by Somalian Boat Traditions:

bullet drop and velocity as well?



also a Pacific theatre would be nice

This isnt something I can do. NWI may plan on adding this in more detail, but most maps arent going to facilitate firefights over 300m anyway.

Wow, just testing out some guns on your server, and I must say you've really nailed the recoil. Feeling like you've got to wrestle down guns is pretty sweet. That said, I've got a few suggestions. The Sten is a very controllable gun, due to its weight and low ROF. I'd suggest toning its recoil down a bit. The Lugers vertical recoil could be increased substantially, as its design made it have quite a lot of muzzle flip. The MG34 has a lot of horizontal movement in hip fire, that could probably be reduced. The Gewher 43 and Lee Enfield could have more kick. The map wasn't Americans v Germans so thats all I've got. But great job.

Originally posted by Donald John Trump:

Wow, just testing out some guns on your server, and I must say you've really nailed the recoil. Feeling like you've got to wrestle down guns is pretty sweet. That said, I've got a few suggestions. The Sten is a very controllable gun, due to its weight and low ROF. I'd suggest toning its recoil down a bit. The Lugers vertical recoil could be increased substantially, as its design made it have quite a lot of muzzle flip. The MG34 has a lot of horizontal movement in hip fire, that could probably be reduced. The Gewher 43 and Lee Enfield could have more kick. The map wasn't Americans v Germans so thats all I've got. But great job.

I agree about the sten. I had it toned lower, but figured it could do with slightly more. I'll bump it down some on the next release. I'll definitely tweak the mg's and luger as well.

I understand the 1-officers-2-NCO structure, but it is one of the times when realism cannot be fully implemented due to differences in doctrines and the 16 man team limit. For the British section for instance, there are 10 men in it with a CPL as section head and LCP as the 2IC (sections in the British Army are called squads in the US Army). Officers (Captains) usually appear in platoons with more people than the entire server could hold at least from research.

If we are to go with this structure on a squad level, it'll mean about a third of the soldiers being used in officer-esque roles, and as of now I'm not sure what exactly is the NCO's role specifically. If we want to have a healthy rifleman population, we will then have to condense all the other roles into the assault or support class, which will limit their effectiveness by making them jack-of-all-trades.

So I think it'll be nicer to remove the officer (take him to be Mr Arty man) and readjust the squads.
ASSAULT SQUAD:
1 NCO: Respective rifles/SMGs/shotguns (for US and Commonwealth cos Germany hates them)
1 Radioman: Respective rifles with a permanently fixed radio (if possible to implement)
1 Assault: Respective SMGs/shotguns/M1 Carbine (for US)/StG 44 (for GER)
1 Automatic Rifleman: Respective lighter MGs
1 Engineer: Respective flamethrowers/rifles (with GL options)/SMGs/M1 Carbine and explosives
Riflemen: Respective rifles with chance to carry radios
SUPPORT SQUAD:
1 NCO: Respective rifles/SMGs/shotguns
1 Radioman: Respective rifles with a permanently fixed radio (if possible to implement)
1 Machine Gunner/Automatic Riflemen: Respective heavier MGs
1 Assault: Respective SMGs/shotguns/rifles
1 Marksman: Respective rifles (see next section)
Riflemen: Respective rifles with chance to carry radios

In the above set-up, we still manage to maintain the proportion of riflemen and automatic classes, while giving each class a specific job based on their loadout to avoid having the jack-of-all-trades syndrome.

I've talked to MrBrightside about it, he said that for gameplay balance they kept the sniper scopes at 7x.

So if you wanna go for realism, you could try tinkering with the magnifications (in INS it's possible, idk about here) by making them closer to reality.

The Wehrmacht scope (assuming ZF41) is a 4x scope.
The Commonwealth scope (assuming the scope you see on the No 1 Mk III* (HT) ) is a 3.5x scope.
The US Army scope (assuming Weaver 330) is a 2.2x scope. But that is an issue, because of the obvious low magnification. The US Army snipers had a habit of ditching their rifles in favour of the Wehrmacht pickups. We can compromise by giving them the USMC rifle, which was a Lyman 5A (5x) scope. They did have a Unertl 8x but that's overkill.

The only country which aimed to give everyone a pistol was the US and so it'll be good to give them 2 point M1911A1s, but that may compromise balance.
Pistols should be given to the NCOs, MG and snipers by default, and maybe make it one point for them.
The US Army also tried having the M1 Carbine to actually be a sidearm to replace the M1911A1, maybe it'll be interesting if you can make it an option.

I'm not sure if you've touched those values since it's my first time with this, but the weight values can sometimes be very distorted. IIRC, the M1 Garand is heavier than the BAR in-game. It'll be great if you could make weight points proportional to the actual weight of the gun like AndyBroski did with INSURGENCY+ and Daiymo did with SERNIX.

The sounds are some good ♥♥♥♥, and the handling is bomb.

I also love the pace, and I think a stamina an acceleration/deceleration system based on weight and running duration could benefit the game.

As you may have noticed when I tried to make you into kebab, the slow speed when bayonet charging made the attachment even more useless. A good way to deal with it is to make it free for all rifles and to up the speed of its attack or at least make it a one hit kill based on momentum.

I'm too lazy to read what blackcockdown wrote, but it seems really well made so do all that :P also after trying out your new update, I've got a few more suggestions.
-The shotgun is still really inaccurate like in stock Ins/DoI, but IRL they have far less spread in the first 30 feet or so from the muzzle. Could have more recoil too maybe, 12 gauge has a lot of kick.
-I don't know if this can be changed, but the Webley should probably have more trigger delay. Granted I've never shot one IRL, but IIRC even the Model 10 in Ins has more.
-The P38 and Luger still seem a little close in recoil to me, I think the Luger could have more muzzle rise.
-Like what you did with the G43 and K98, very satisfying and the recoil seems similar to RO2. But it seems like the Lee Enfield has a lot less recoil than the Mauser. Granted it's a little weaker, but its pretty close in recoil.
-I think that's all I've got, but reading a bit of blackcockdowns team structure recommendations, I'm, gonna suggest watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rKRt5zVZgw

This guy lays out how German squads were equipped and set up in WW2. But in general just keep in mind that the major German strength in a firefight was their MGs, while the Americans relied on M1s for thier main firepower, and the Brits had a lot of SMGs and their Enfield, both of which provided more firepower than German Mausers. So essentially they were all quite "balanced" with each other in a small scale firefight. Or at least they could be.

Originally posted by BlackCockDown:

Team Structure

I understand the 1-officers-2-NCO structure, but it is one of the times when realism cannot be fully implemented due to differences in doctrines and the 16 man team limit. For the British section for instance, there are 10 men in it with a CPL as section head and LCP as the 2IC (sections in the British Army are called squads in the US Army). Officers (Captains) usually appear in platoons with more people than the entire server could hold at least from research.

If we are to go with this structure on a squad level, it'll mean about a third of the soldiers being used in officer-esque roles, and as of now I'm not sure what exactly is the NCO's role specifically. If we want to have a healthy rifleman population, we will then have to condense all the other roles into the assault or support class, which will limit their effectiveness by making them jack-of-all-trades.

So I think it'll be nicer to remove the officer (take him to be Mr Arty man) and readjust the squads.
ASSAULT SQUAD:
1 NCO: Respective rifles/SMGs/shotguns (for US and Commonwealth cos Germany hates them)
1 Radioman: Respective rifles with a permanently fixed radio (if possible to implement)
1 Assault: Respective SMGs/shotguns/M1 Carbine (for US)/StG 44 (for GER)
1 Automatic Rifleman: Respective lighter MGs
1 Engineer: Respective flamethrowers/rifles (with GL options)/SMGs/M1 Carbine and explosives
Riflemen: Respective rifles with chance to carry radios
SUPPORT SQUAD:
1 NCO: Respective rifles/SMGs/shotguns
1 Radioman: Respective rifles with a permanently fixed radio (if possible to implement)
1 Machine Gunner/Automatic Riflemen: Respective heavier MGs
1 Assault: Respective SMGs/shotguns/rifles
1 Marksman: Respective rifles (see next section)
Riflemen: Respective rifles with chance to carry radios

In the above set-up, we still manage to maintain the proportion of riflemen and automatic classes, while giving each class a specific job based on their loadout to avoid having the jack-of-all-trades syndrome.

Sniper Rifles

I've talked to MrBrightside about it, he said that for gameplay balance they kept the sniper scopes at 7x.

So if you wanna go for realism, you could try tinkering with the magnifications (in INS it's possible, idk about here) by making them closer to reality.

The Wehrmacht scope (assuming ZF41) is a 4x scope.
The Commonwealth scope (assuming the scope you see on the No 1 Mk III* (HT) ) is a 3.5x scope.
The US Army scope (assuming Weaver 330) is a 2.2x scope. But that is an issue, because of the obvious low magnification. The US Army snipers had a habit of ditching their rifles in favour of the Wehrmacht pickups. We can compromise by giving them the USMC rifle, which was a Lyman 5A (5x) scope. They did have a Unertl 8x but that's overkill.

Sidearms

The only country which aimed to give everyone a pistol was the US and so it'll be good to give them 2 point M1911A1s, but that may compromise balance.
Pistols should be given to the NCOs, MG and snipers by default, and maybe make it one point for them.
The US Army also tried having the M1 Carbine to actually be a sidearm to replace the M1911A1, maybe it'll be interesting if you can make it an option.

Weight

I'm not sure if you've touched those values since it's my first time with this, but the weight values can sometimes be very distorted. IIRC, the M1 Garand is heavier than the BAR in-game. It'll be great if you could make weight points proportional to the actual weight of the gun like AndyBroski did with INSURGENCY+ and Daiymo did with SERNIX.

Misc

The sounds are some good ♥♥♥♥, and the handling is bomb.

I also love the pace, and I think a stamina an acceleration/deceleration system based on weight and running duration could benefit the game.

As you may have noticed when I tried to make you into kebab, the slow speed when bayonet charging made the attachment even more useless. A good way to deal with it is to make it free for all rifles and to up the speed of its attack or at least make it a one hit kill based on momentum.

I've implemented tons of changes in regards to your post and I'd like to thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed post.

That being said, we also have to consider balance to a certain degree when it comes to things like pistols per side and class. You'll see tons of things you brought up in the changelog of v1.2, but we're still on the edge about classes. We plan on overviewing and revamping classes as well as continuing to refine cost of weapons and loadouts for v1.3.

Originally posted by Donald John Trump:

I'm too lazy to read what blackcockdown wrote, but it seems really well made so do all that :P also after trying out your new update, I've got a few more suggestions.
-The shotgun is still really inaccurate like in stock Ins/DoI, but IRL they have far less spread in the first 30 feet or so from the muzzle. Could have more recoil too maybe, 12 gauge has a lot of kick.
-I don't know if this can be changed, but the Webley should probably have more trigger delay. Granted I've never shot one IRL, but IIRC even the Model 10 in Ins has more.
-The P38 and Luger still seem a little close in recoil to me, I think the Luger could have more muzzle rise.
-Like what you did with the G43 and K98, very satisfying and the recoil seems similar to RO2. But it seems like the Lee Enfield has a lot less recoil than the Mauser. Granted it's a little weaker, but its pretty close in recoil.
-I think that's all I've got, but reading a bit of blackcockdowns team structure recommendations, I'm, gonna suggest watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rKRt5zVZgw

This guy lays out how German squads were equipped and set up in WW2. But in general just keep in mind that the major German strength in a firefight was their MGs, while the Americans relied on M1s for thier main firepower, and the Brits had a lot of SMGs and their Enfield, both of which provided more firepower than German Mausers. So essentially they were all quite "balanced" with each other in a small scale firefight. Or at least they could be.

As with with the post above, thank you so much for your detailed insight. We would prefer to give the germans a proper set up, but we're still in the considering stage and plan on releasing squad setup in v1.3. You'll see many changes you listed above in v1.2.

Originally posted by Donald John Trump:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rKRt5zVZgw

This guy lays out how German squads were equipped and set up in WW2. But in general just keep in mind that the major German strength in a firefight was their MGs, while the Americans relied on M1s for thier main firepower, and the Brits had a lot of SMGs and their Enfield, both of which provided more firepower than German Mausers. So essentially they were all quite "balanced" with each other in a small scale firefight. Or at least they could be.

Just wanted to point out that there is a soldier with the sole role of supplying ammo to the mg. Also the riflemen could act as an ammo man as well.
Perhaps the ability to carry a ammo box? It wouldnt need an models, and i dont know how much work it would require, however i will lay out the gist of it regardless (JIC)

- You can resupply up to 3 people, then you must either find a depot or respawn to get those 3 "charges" back
- it will cost 5 points.
- it will be a part in the backpack section (like for radio)

Dont know whether this will help realism or not, however it seems like the troops didnt find entire ammo crates out in the wild like we do (despite me even including a mechanic using the depots), and as such required people finding ammo to keep them stocked. IDK if this is possible for you to do, and if not, send this to the devs.

Originally posted by Mason J. Caboose:

Just wanted to point out that there is a soldier with the sole role of supplying ammo to the mg. Also the riflemen could act as an ammo man as well.
Perhaps the ability to carry a ammo box? It wouldnt need an models, and i dont know how much work it would require, however i will lay out the gist of it regardless (JIC)

- You can resupply up to 3 people, then you must either find a depot or respawn to get those 3 "charges" back
- it will cost 5 points.
- it will be a part in the backpack section (like for radio)

Dont know whether this will help realism or not, however it seems like the troops didnt find entire ammo crates out in the wild like we do (despite me even including a mechanic using the depots), and as such required people finding ammo to keep them stocked. IDK if this is possible for you to do, and if not, send this to the devs.

I like it. Honestly this could make the game so much more tactical and interesting. I didn't really think assistants and ammo suppliers would fit in this game, but now I think that if you gave the machinegunner a very limited (realistic) supply of ammo (♥♥♥♥♥ heavy) then the assistants could become a crucial and interesting class. The difficulty would of course be pressuring someone to actually help the assistant gunner/want to help them. In Red Orchestra 2 you get points for supplying MGs. No pressure BTW Tanaka, understandable if you don't want to do this with your mod. Just hope NWI take note.

I'm looking into these features for v1.3! Is everyone in agreeance that MGs should have less ammo?

Originally posted by ✪ tanaKa-:

I'm looking into these features for v1.3! Is everyone in agreeance that MGs should have less ammo?

A realistic amount I think would be good. Pretty sure a Kraut MGer can't carry around two 250 round belts. I wonder how useless that'd make the heavy kit though. You'll have to look into how much ammo is realistic for the Bren, Lewis, MG34 etc. though, since I do know drum and pan mags can be awkward and heavy to carry.

If the mg'er only has 50 rounds/1 clip, it would be tough to use witohut a team capable to supply you.
My only issue actually is, how wil the ai react? will they resuplly the mg like your teamates should would? Or will they simply use a pistol?

Also if you do this, put an icon over a ammo carriers head for hte mg guy, like how the radio and officers do.

Originally posted by the humble noob:

Make it so a class like the rifleman can get a belt insted of a radio and that way making the rifleman more valuable (right now it seems that there is no real point to chose rifleman over any other class)

Agreed 100%

Originally posted by Mason J. Caboose:

If the mg'er only has 50 rounds/1 clip, it would be tough to use witohut a team capable to supply you.
My only issue actually is, how wil the ai react? will they resuplly the mg like your teamates should would? Or will they simply use a pistol?

Also if you do this, put an icon over a ammo carriers head for hte mg guy, like how the radio and officers do.

Originally posted by the humble noob:

Make it so a class like the rifleman can get a belt insted of a radio and that way making the rifleman more valuable (right now it seems that there is no real point to chose rifleman over any other class)

Agreed 100%

They're called mags, just so you know.