Originally posted by Tatters:

From my experience so far, all this seems to do is slow down progression by making you press extra buttons. Why was the old system where you got recipes by picking things up not good enough? Why can't the research be set to auto cash in if its possible to do so?

because the entire point -is- to slow down progression so people don't skip to tier 6 in 20 minutes by fast-tracking. That just leads to skipping 95% of the content in the first place, and that isn't how things should be.

Instead, players plot their own progress in whatever direction they want and are rewarded for game-play and exploration. The can learn about new things they didn't even know existed in the process and try things they would otherwise have missed entirely. This was quite common in the old system.

FU adds as much content as was present in the original product. This necessitates a great many changes. As an overhaul mod, this is pretty much par for the course.

Originally posted by Sayter:

Originally posted by Tatters:

From my experience so far, all this seems to do is slow down progression by making you press extra buttons. Why was the old system where you got recipes by picking things up not good enough? Why can't the research be set to auto cash in if its possible to do so?

because the entire point -is- to slow down progression so people don't skip to tier 6 in 20 minutes by fast-tracking. That just leads to skipping 95% of the content in the first place, and that isn't how things should be.

Instead, players plot their own progress in whatever direction they want and are rewarded for game-play and exploration. The can learn about new things they didn't even know existed in the process and try things they would otherwise have missed entirely. This was quite common in the old system.

FU adds as much content as was present in the original product. This necessitates a great many changes. As an overhaul mod, this is pretty much par for the course.

I've never played an overhaul mod that made starting up a new game take 10 times longer than it does by default until now. You haven't made progression more fun or more interesting, you've just made it so that in order to actually use that new material you just found you need to stand around until you have enough research and then press no fewer that 5 buttons to initiate what should be an automatic process.

Couldn't you at least let players say, tag nodes adjacent to their current ones to be auto-redeemed when possible, thus forming a middle ground between the systems?

Originally posted by Tatters:

I've never played an overhaul mod that made starting up a new game take 10 times longer than it does by default until now.

It doesn't take ten times longer. Not even remotely. It simply refocuses the tutorial section so that players can properly be taught all of the new mechanics in a way that is approachable. Timing wise, the starter nodes plot out to approximately 1 hour of game time. This is approximately the time it takes in vanilla to really get past that starting area too. It can also be fast-tracked if you really wanted in less than half the time once you know how the mod works. Potential ways to fast-track further (for experienced players) have been discussed but nothing is concrete yet.

In FU this one hour needs to cover a lot more: basic crafting, what each node can do for the player, the core crafting stations used, how research works, how mechs work, how combat changes work, how resistances work, how fuel works, how FTL works, how BYOS works, the basic of power and networks, automation, sifting, extraction, chemistry, bees, booze, and so on.

And all of it is done at the pace the player ultimately wants to progress at. This provides *more* player agency, not less.

you've just made it so that in order to actually use that new material you just found you need to stand around until you have enough research and then press no fewer that 5 buttons to initiate what should be an automatic process.

Not if you don't sit around waiting, it doesn't. If you find yourself waiting, go do something else for a bit. Fossils, fishing, exploration of higher-tier biomes, madness, certain mobs, extraction, bees, microscopes, computers...all just a few ways to increase research on the fly.

As for UI stuff: theres only so much we can do in the API there. I'd love to have a dedicated hotkey. Alas, that is not possible.

Couldn't you at least let players say, tag nodes adjacent to their current ones to be auto-redeemed when possible, thus forming a middle ground between the systems?

There are many ways it could be done, sure, if i had time to treat this like a full-time job and not a hobby project. Making an overly complex scriptpane to handle this , above and beyond the complexity already inherent in this system is not on my agenda with that in mind.


The bottom line, however, is that the vast majority prefer this system. I appreciate the feedback in any case. It sounds like you are expecting things to work like vanilla, though, and that just isn't the case here.

I see the point of slowing down to enjoy more, and yet, at least for experimentation purposes, sometimes you gotta skip the sciency stuff.
Is there perhaps a config I can change to make the tech tree all completed by default?
Coming back to an endgame character and being unable to use my tech and craft high-tier items takes away all potential enjoyment.

Originally posted by lizard.da:

I see the point of slowing down to enjoy more, and yet, at least for experimentation purposes, sometimes you gotta skip the sciency stuff.
Is there perhaps a config I can change to make the tech tree all completed by default?
Coming back to an endgame character and being unable to use my tech and craft high-tier items takes away all potential enjoyment.

Not really, no. The idea is to start a -new- character with the research system. Sadly, an unavoidable cost of the swap to the new system.

And no, you don't need to "skip" the sciencey stuff. The entire mod is literally -designed-around science. There is therefore no option to "skip" the entire game progression lol. But....

Now, that said, you can activate /admin mode and then access your research menu. You'll see a smiley face on the interface of the screen, lower left corner. Click that little bastard. Then you can type iamabeaconofknowledge and voila. However, this will obliterate all progression immediately, leaving you lost and overburdened by recipes all at once. Also note that it *will* take several minutes to complete so you need to be patient.