Warlock 2: the Exiled

Warlock 2: the Exiled

Renaissance Mod
rauschrick 6 Apr, 2024 @ 6:03am
Potential Improvements to the Renaissance Mod
I like the mod a lot but there is a few issues I find with it, I dont really see how the AI improved specifically because I have played 2 Battles of outplanes games with defeat all mages on impossible and none of the great mages attack each other, in fact all of them are allied with each other, so sure I could attack them all and win but I dont find the game fun if there is only me versus everyone one sidedly, if there can be a way to just have a peaceful mode to build it would be nice but I dont think the warlock modding engine can support that, otherwise it feels like nothing is really going on. Also isnt there a way to have portals not be able to be portal blocked, like having damage occur around the portal, it occurs pretty often when there are tiny worlds filled with units. Is there a way to make the AI smarter, it doesnt really use buff spells on its units or cities it just haphazardly casts terraforming and fire balls everywhere. Also I think the game could be harder without having to give the AI infinite resources and buff all of their units to oblivion just by reducing production overall in all cities and increasing the cost of units, spells, and general upkeep, that makes the game progress only a little slower but also allows for wars and expansion to become more costly and makes basic survival more challenging without having to one sidedly give perks to the rival great mage that at the same time doesnt make it that much harder to beat. Otherwise there isnt really a point to the game if I have to make it harder on myself in order to have fun with it, though I dont know if modding that is possible or even if the AI could adapt to it, I wonder if you can mod to change the AI as well, I dont really believe so but maybe you can. I think the solution to having great mages able to go to war with each other is more or less simple in theory, one problem with AI is they dont EVER build specialty towns like towns to gods or strongholds, that means they have to find a holy ground or have specialty to a god at the start of the game to possibly have other AI against them,
I think by having AI so if they like you they will keep trying to like you until you either break with them or fail to support them in a war, if your in negative in relation to them they wont ally with you which makes you have to give them gifts to ally with you, and being an ally should be designed where its only really broken if your relationship with them goes bad through treachery, religion and so on, or if you fail to respond to a call to war, there could also be very rare chance betrayals if that is possible. Where if the specific rival mage doesnt like you they will probably go to war with you, or even ally with others against you if they have envy of the leader, also having those you go to war with still hating you even after peace is a way to go but not hate too much during peace, it should be possible to gift them enough after other grievances go away. Also if it is even possible to make AI more reasonable when it comes to trade, instead of giving them one very good spell and a thousand of one resource in exchange for all of their other resource it should be by the thousand on whether they will trade, based on their relation with you, and the value of a certain spell which is predetermined by a system, maybe equating a spell to gold or mana but just a suggestion, another thing warlock never got right anyways was the demand feature, if you ever at all demand anything the answer will always be no, so how would one fix that if even possible, I think one way is having a military strength feature where each unit has a military strength and if the collective strength is high enough, even buff spells and heros will add to it, then demands will be more likely to be fulfilled by a basis.
Also there is an infinite points glitch with hubris where you spend all of your points with hubris, take off hubris, go to the next page in the perks list then the counter goes from -5 to 0 and you can click hubris again to get 5 points each time and you can start the game at -5 points without hubris,also is it possible to make another faction, I think one more would make it feel more fulfilled but it isnt necessary, if I were to want another faction I would want it to be a divine faction where you can get units tailored to a specific god and have units with similar powers to the avatars of those gods with the drawback being you cant specifically recruit the holy ground divine units without a holy ground so all of the divine units to the god or gods you worship wont be stronger than the holy ground units besides the holy sentinels, I think the way to go about having a divine race tailored to specific gods is have them function like holy grounds if you can where you cant get a krypta temple after you get an agrela temple for example. The divine race I think would be a good way to separate the mages who worship gods at the start to those who dont. Also the AI in the sandbox map never really builds cities, and I mean like even if they had only a maximum of 5 cities, some AI wont even build like 3, also I saw in a master of the arcane mod, where certain special resources had guards appropriate to the resource, like with red and gold dragon eggs, but with halberdiers, stubborn knights, maybe have that uranitum resource have a unit guarding it like a moon walker or some other unit, also have gold dragon spawners, also that event where you spend 2500 mana for 200 gold units isnt that good either, there should at least be a choice for that one. I had defilers which arent even that good as only options along with dremer smashers, also I would recommend having the dremer plains or contaminated plains provide at least no penalty to dremer cities or a bonus to resources, otherwise why would I ever get a specialty dremer town or get that one building that gives a percentage bonus to everything only for it to contaminate everything around it, now there is a chance this mod did change that but it should say it so I can be sure. Also I dont think the defilers should contaminate either for that reason if the negatives of the contamination effects the dremer towns as well, it makes the defilers a waste, also I think the invokers and summoners are just too expensive while being too squishy. For the sylvan faction I dont think the bearman are sustainable enough, they are simply too squishy to me, they are like fodder. I could use those elder turtles to great efficacy at the same cost, and I think the elder turtles are too cheap too. They are the best reason to play sylvan besides me gunning for the best spells to trade all of the resources of other mages with and the extreme amounts of food I have to support massive armies. Also I think holy sentinels should be stronger, yes I think they are just way to weak, they would be great to have in like the beginning of the game but thats all, so it makes me think they dont really fit in the game well since they do no damage, cant move, and though they have good resistance and health, its kind of pointless to use them as a wall since they probably wont even reach where you want to put the wall by the time you get there. And many other units can just do a better job anyways. So if I had to give advice on how to balance change them, I would say give them 3 or 4 movement instead of I think it was 1 or 2 and increase damage and healing by like 20% then they would be much worth it. Also I think red dragons should get a buff, they arent sustainable, the resource bonuses are much more worth it. Also I think the Arethi elves should get a little better production, their production is atrocious for what I have to face which is 15 magisters and a great wall of warrior fodder. Then again if you were to reduce the production of everything and increase the cost of everything I think the elves would seem more balanced. Otherwise the elementals being added to the elves was a good move I think. And of course to me the planestriders are definitely the weakest race. Anyways I dont expect any of it to get changed, I am just giving what I think would make the mod better if it is even possible, I do think the modding tools is designed to not be able to easily break the game so changing the AI might be a stretch but I wouldnt know, the game was dead on arrival anyways so dont feel pressured to make any of these changes. Thank you for the mod though I did enjoy the general contents and numerous bug fixes in the mod.
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Chumley  [developer] 18 Apr, 2024 @ 5:37am 
Hi Rauschrick,

Thanks for your feedback regarding Renaissance Mod. I appreciate the time and thought you put into your post. Lots to consider here! :-)

Unfortunately, as you suspect, a good portion of what you're requesting is outside the realm of what is possible with game editor. Additionally, I more or less consider the mod 'complete' at this point, apart from minor balance tweaks.

AI Improvements
Regarding the AI's capabilities, I hear more feedback about that than anything else. Generally it's a healthy mix of:

- AI's are now too strong
- AI's need to be stronger

The fact that I still hear both types of feedback tells me that the current state of AI power is probably about right.

Keep in mind, much of what the AI is capable of is hard-coded into the game. What I've done is to understand the AI's patterns and make changes to the game that allow the AI to function more competently and cohesively with respect to their existing patterns and limitations. It took a ton of testing and trail-and-error.

Changing the existing AI patterns simply isn't possible with the tools available. That said, most players have responded well to the mod's "new" AI behavior. For example, in Renaissance Mod (on the higher difficulty levels) AI's can now:

1. Capture entire shard worlds
2. Regularly build temples and high-tier temple units
3. Field large oppressive armies with strong, powerful units
4. Move around the map much more capably (particularly in Sandbox mode)
5. Keep up with the player in terms of mid-game and end-game techs

In contrast, none of these things tend to happen without the mod.

Suggestions to Boost the Challenge
If you're still finding the game too easy, might I make the following suggestions (these are for you, plus anyone else who prefers a greater challenge):

1. Stick to Sandbox mode.
While Exiled mode can still be fun, the AI's do move and play better in a big open world with a handful of shard worlds.

2. Use the following map / game settings:
- Set the difficulty to 'Challenging' or 'Impossible'
- Set the monster spawn rate to 2x
- Enable all victory types (particularly the Unity Spell, as that will put your game on a timer of sorts and force you to eliminate AIs earlier)
- Use a large or extra-large Sandbox map with 4-5 external worlds
- Great Land and Supercontinent provide a greater challenge than Continents and Islands
- Play with 4-6 opponents (the game performs best with ~2 less players than the maximum possible)

3. Choose specific AIs that are more aggressive (*most aggressive):
- *Stoneheart
- *Rjakh
- *Dremer Queen
- Serpent Queen Zhorea
- Emperor Baalphegor
- Tlalocian
- Infurion the Cruel
- King Lich VI
- Lord Tharayn
- Krel the Kingpin
- Winter Enchantress

You might also choose just one mage that's more neutral (King Reginald III and Es Kaliborn work well here). That way, if the AI's wage war on each other, the neutral AI can act as a spoiler and advance with their armies intact, providing you with a good end-game challenge.

4. Avoid using any game exploits:
- Don't disable the City Limit
- Avoid exploiting recursive 'Hubris'
- Limit trading with AIs so you receive no more than 500 mana / gold per transaction

(If I could fix these exploits, I certainly would. I supposed I could eliminate 'Hubris' but many people like it as an option, with and without the exploit.)

Unit Sustainability
A lot of the units you mention that "aren't sustainable," well, you're right. But they're not supposed to be. They're intended to supplement your army or be replaced as the game progresses.

For example, let's look at Holy Sentinels. They make excellent city defenders for their cost. While they can be part of a core army, they really aren't intended to be. Their role is to defend and perhaps provide a healing unit option for races that don't have one.

[Note: Holy Sentinels built by a player are different than the hostile ones that guard Holy Ground nodes. The node guardians ones have just 1 movement (so they don't stray). The ones that players can build have 3 movement, just like most other healing units.]

You also mentioned Red Dragons. True, they aren't the best dragons. But they're very good for the mid-game, and even formidable in the end-game with good perks and enchantments. They do get outclassed, but so do many units. They work well for their cost and upkeep. And considering you can get them very early on with the 'Dragon Breeder' perk, they are fairly well balanced as is.

In my experience, part of what makes a good 4X game is learning what units work best in what roles. So with that in mind, I tried to ensure there was a good mix of units available throughout the game. Some are good at scouting, but terrible at fighting. Some make good defenders, but poor attackers. Some provide hard counters to specific units -- like Koatls versus dragons. Trying out different units and army combinations is part of the fun. ;-)

- - - - - - - - - - - -

I do appreciate the feedback, but I have to be honest -- I consider the current mod a good success. It took hundreds of hours to get it to this state. I don't have the time or inclination to make sweeping changes to it, especially when it appears to be working well for the vast majority of players.

That said, I encourage you to try out different settings and game modes. Use a few of my suggestions above. You might discover that the game provides more overall satisfaction in future play-throughs.
Last edited by Chumley; 23 Apr, 2024 @ 6:49am
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