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Jagged Alliance 3 >  Workshop > Soundwave2142's Workshop > Final Stand > Discussions
Final Stand
Description Discussions2 Comments26 Change Notes
Soundwave2142  [developer] 8 Jun @ 4:22am
Improvements / Suggestions
Give any suggestions for improvements here.

Current plans:
#### 1.30
- Change Spawn points for all maps.
- Transfer new UI system.
- Adonis Player Faction, Rebels Enemy Faction.
- Added buff to all player mercs that gives slight bonuses to performance and allows to see all enemies when entering sector during _Final Chance_.
- Options to start with random set of Mercs (only certain mercs are available at start).
- Revisit Steam screenshots.

#### 1.40
- Legion Player Faction, Militia Enemy Faction.
- A20 Map.
- Add endless mode.

#### 1.50
- Map reinforcements operations.
- Rework help page to include more details.
- Final Stand wave and description is now also shown in quests.
- Bosses for all factions, that will appear on last wave.

#### 1.60
- Start and End cutscenes (Credits rework).
- Dialog and communications (Different announcers for each faction).
- Achievements (shown in Help page).
- Custom Weapons for FS and HD (Rewards beyond FS).
- Multiplayer support.

#### 1.XX
- Fix Translations IDs + Translate to other languages.
- Voices for dialog and communications.

Do not suggest mods/characters, only topics related to this mod. Stick to English or your comments will be deleted.
Last edited by Soundwave2142; 25 Aug @ 5:49am
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
cockadoodledoo 10 Jun @ 12:42am 
Maybe add more than one deployment zone for the player, so he/she can take a different approach for the next wave.
What I would also love, would be an implementation into the Vanilla Campaign, now its nice as a Standalone gaming experience.
#1
Soundwave2142  [developer] 10 Jun @ 2:29am 
Originally posted by cockadoodledoo:
Maybe add more than one deployment zone for the player, so he/she can take a different approach for the next wave.
What I would also love, would be an implementation into the Vanilla Campaign, now its nice as a Standalone gaming experience.

Thank you for the zones suggestion, I've added it to the list of planned changes. I've also updated this post to include said list.

As for integration into Hot Diamonds, that would take quite the effort and I would rather spend it on standalone experience, so I don't see that happening unfortunately. Thank you for the suggestion.
#2
Lucjan 30 Jun @ 9:58am 
Mod doesn't tell anywhere how log it will take. When playing for the first time is very hard to tell what is good contract length for starting mercs (I understand that this might be be design and players should figure it out on their own)

It is hard to tell how to access shop, I think that info in F1 to do that via IMP page would be helpful. I was waiting for an email at first.

I would like have an option to be given/choose random starting mercs. Vanilla random unavailability is nice for this, here all none-legendary mercs were available from the start. I would prefer to have a chance to play with legendary mercs more. Unlocking aim gold but mailing overall availability random would e my preference.

Piere EQ is very strong at start. He comes with 5 small diamonds so he feels like a cheat on 3 day contract.
#3
Soundwave2142  [developer] 30 Jun @ 10:52am 
Originally posted by Lucjan:
Mod doesn't tell anywhere how log it will take. When playing for the first time is very hard to tell what is good contract length for starting mercs (I understand that this might be be design and players should figure it out on their own)

It is hard to tell how to access shop, I think that info in F1 to do that via IMP page would be helpful. I was waiting for an email at first.

I would like have an option to be given/choose random starting mercs. Vanilla random unavailability is nice for this, here all none-legendary mercs were available from the start. I would prefer to have a chance to play with legendary mercs more. Unlocking aim gold but mailing overall availability random would e my preference.

Piere EQ is very strong at start. He comes with 5 small diamonds so he feels like a cheat on 3 day contract.

Thank you for detailed feedback. These are all very valid comments. I will try to adress them next patch.

Regardless random availability suggestion, this is a good idea, something akin to "Busy Mercs" option could add more to replayability. Will add to ToDo list. Thank you.
#4
Lucjan 10 Jul @ 1:39am 
Hello, I see there are advance settings options available (vanilla for less ammo, higher prices etc). The thing is, it allows to enable all mercs to be online - I played without ti and they all were online anyway :D

From what pool do you select starting gear? I picked army as enemy and I got quite strong items.

Anyway I wonder about specific mod configuration. If a player plays with ToG and Rato GBO then some weapons should not be available (as are not patched for GBO). This is why I wonder how do you select items for starting sector gear.
#5
Soundwave2142  [developer] 10 Jul @ 1:56am 
Originally posted by Lucjan:
Hello, I see there are advance settings options available (vanilla for less ammo, higher prices etc). The thing is, it allows to enable all mercs to be online - I played without ti and they all were online anyway :D

I did not alter in any way how these calculations are made, this is default game behavior. Perhaps I'm missing some campaign start calls to Effects that Hot Diamonds employ, I can't say for sure.

Originally posted by Lucjan:
From what pool do you select starting gear? I picked army as enemy and I got quite strong items.

Starter gear depends on two things right now, player faction and enemy faction. Army all have armor and potentially high dps weapons, so I tried to counter it with armor and mid-late game weapons.

Player gets the same amount of gear regardless of squad size (with ammo slightly randomized); this hopefully ensures the player cannot equip everyone with good gear if employing more mercs but also won't be immediately wiped out in the first 2 waves if employing less mercs.

Originally posted by Lucjan:
Anyway I wonder about specific mod configuration. If a player plays with ToG and Rato GBO then some weapons should not be available (as are not patched for GBO). This is why I wonder how do you select items for starting sector gear.

Both starter gear and post-wave rewards use their own loot definitions, so in this case, there's a chance player will receive non-patched items.
#6
Lucjan 10 Jul @ 2:38am 
Originally posted by Soundwave2142:
Both starter gear and post-wave rewards use their own loot definitions, so in this case, there's a chance player will receive non-patched items.

But are those vanilla only? I got Kompositum light camo armor
#7
Soundwave2142  [developer] 10 Jul @ 3:22am 
Originally posted by Lucjan:
Originally posted by Soundwave2142:
Both starter gear and post-wave rewards use their own loot definitions, so in this case, there's a chance player will receive non-patched items.

But are those vanilla only? I got Kompositum light camo armor

The loot definitions themselves are not vanilla, all items within those loot definitions are vanilla.

Some items might sound a bit overpowered, I will tweak them later, my focus, initially, was to just ensure player has a smoother start.
#8
Lucjan 10 Jul @ 5:57am 
Originally posted by Soundwave2142:
The loot definitions themselves are not vanilla, all items within those loot definitions are vanilla.

Some items might sound a bit overpowered, I will tweak them later, my focus, initially, was to just ensure player has a smoother start.

Amazing, allowing other modders to extend possible loot definitions would allow for compatibility with mods like Ton of Guns and similar.
#9
Soundwave2142  [developer] 10 Jul @ 9:09am 
Originally posted by Lucjan:
Originally posted by Soundwave2142:
The loot definitions themselves are not vanilla, all items within those loot definitions are vanilla.

Some items might sound a bit overpowered, I will tweak them later, my focus, initially, was to just ensure player has a smoother start.

Amazing, allowing other modders to extend possible loot definitions would allow for compatibility with mods like Ton of Guns and similar.

And you won't even need a seperate compatability mod or dependency on Final Stand. Before granting loot, for starter gear or wave rewards, or many other events, it fires messages you can connect to, scan the table, modify whatever you want or pass different definitions.
Last edited by Soundwave2142; 10 Jul @ 9:10am
#10
Kordanor 8 Aug @ 8:47am 
I just started playing a round of Fort Brigand. I think that map has 2 issues:
1. You get plenty of granades. That might somewhat break the balancing you had in mind. I think I had like 6 Gas grenades and 6 frag grenades.
2. There is this one spawn point within the base. That doesn't feel like it's what you'd expect when defending this base. Yes, it's the hidden kanal access, but it doesnt feel right.

Another thing is Livewire. I mean she has already been problematic in the base game, but having all enemies being displayed right away, still feels like a cheat. Maybe outside the scope for this mod to edit existing mercs. But In combination for example with what I mentioned above, the fight basically consists of:
-I knew that some enemies used the hidden entry. I placed my mercs right infront of them killing them first turn (Could also have used grenades). Wasnt a great experience.
#11
Kordanor 8 Aug @ 3:45pm 
Another suggestion: A machete in the start stash would help making melee builds viable. Knifes just don't do it due to abilities and strength scaling.
Doesnt need to be sharp or anything. That could be improvement options for later on.
#12
Soundwave2142  [developer] 10 Aug @ 12:57am 
Originally posted by Kordanor:
1. You get plenty of granades. That might somewhat break the balancing you had in mind. I think I had like 6 Gas grenades and 6 frag grenades.

Not sure where you got so many granades, I still need to go over the actual contents of containers in the map. But enemies drops are vanilla.

Originally posted by Kordanor:
2. There is this one spawn point within the base. That doesn't feel like it's what you'd expect when defending this base. Yes, it's the hidden kanal access, but it doesnt feel right.

I completely agree this is an issue on Fort Brigand. I have an idea to move it down behind the fort and shrink it so only few enemies can spawn. Hopefully AI can decide for itself if it's worthy to use the laddar or move around to the main entrance or fence holes.

Will revisit all spawn points on maps with more thought into it.

Originally posted by Kordanor:
Another thing is Livewire. I mean she has already been problematic in the base game, but having all enemies being displayed right away, still feels like a cheat. Maybe outside the scope for this mod to edit existing mercs.

You are right, mers are outside of the scope of this mod. I will try to balance spawn points to negate the problem you mentioned, but this is up to the player to decide whatever to use her (or to install mods altering her ability for that matter).

Originally posted by Kordanor:
Another suggestion: A machete in the start stash would help making melee builds viable. Knifes just don't do it due to abilities and strength scaling.
Doesnt need to be sharp or anything. That could be improvement options for later on.

This is a good suggestion, I could drop one into the starting gear pool.

Thank you for your feedback.
#13
Kordanor 10 Aug @ 5:35am 
Originally posted by Soundwave2142:
Not sure where you got so many granades, I still need to go over the actual contents of containers in the map. But enemies drops are vanilla.
These were just from the crates in the zone. There is also this globe you can open for a significant amount of money. In combination this gives you a significant headstart.

Speaking of...more plannability would also be nice. I don't know if it's technically possible: Maybe you could display all the waves in the timeline right away to plan for contract lengths?
Maybe it's also possible to note down a range of income to expect for each wave.

Another completely different thing:
You get an insane amount of XP per wave (being in the militia) and thats cool. But the attribute point's don't keep up. And I read that in the ToDo list you wanted to add new operations anyways.
Maybe it's possible to make training more rewarding by upping the training rate 3 or 5 times?
For compatibility it might be an option to make current merc training unavailable, and instead have a new training operation with accelerated training. But I dont know if thats better and how you handled the adjusted militia training.
#14
Soundwave2142  [developer] 11 Aug @ 6:40am 
Originally posted by Kordanor:
Speaking of...more plannability would also be nice. I don't know if it's technically possible: Maybe you could display all the waves in the timeline right away to plan for contract lengths?
This is all technically possible, but from the gameplay design perspective, I want players to play the game mode once or twice and be able to figure this out themselves and feel a sense of accomplishment for overcoming the challenges and figuring out best tactics.

From the narrative point of view (which is not quite there yet), it also wouldn't make sense that the enemy would send another wave before the first wave is wiped out.

Originally posted by Kordanor:
Maybe it's also possible to note down a range of income to expect for each wave.
This, however, is a good idea and will help with planability. Will add to TODO list.

Originally posted by Kordanor:
You get an insane amount of XP per wave (being in the militia) and thats cool. But the attribute point's don't keep up. And I read that in the ToDo list you wanted to add new operations anyways.
Maybe it's possible to make training more rewarding by upping the training rate 3 or 5 times?
For compatibility it might be an option to make current merc training unavailable, and instead have a new training operation with accelerated training. But I dont know if thats better and how you handled the adjusted militia training.
I altered stat gaining system to be more consistent, but I could agree that it's not enough, so this is a good idea. Also, all operations in Final Stand are already accelerated by at least 30-40 percent depending on the faction to help with the pacing during waves.

All changes in Final Stand are done via code injections or overrides and, in most if not all cases, are compatible with other mods and Hot Diamonds. You should 100% be able to play through Hot Diamonds or any other campaign with Final Stand active without Final Stand affecting things outside its own campaign.
#15
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