Your Only Move Is HUSTLE

Your Only Move Is HUSTLE

Belmont: Vampire Killer (Amazing Acolades Update!!)
A Rant That Contains Suggestions and Praise
Hey!

So I've literally been going and spreading the gospel. When I encounter a player I can talk to I usually try to find a way to suggest Belmont to them. I want to main him. Sorry for this book, but well...here it is.

Can I add one suggestion? Would it be too far to give him a 4f strike? Like a good old fashioned Whip Pommel to the temple or some kind of Heart Stake? Or even a crisp bap with a bible for these undead hoes, eh? Maybe even a special parry option after you obtain a cross? I've noticed he runs out of options quick in close quarters. The faithful need frames to rebuke the damned!

I also like that his normal jump is atrocious and stiff, which is on-brand for the OG Castlevania titles. I think it's a thematic character balance. Having a clunky jump really sucks, and certain other modded characters have tall projectiles that he actually can't get over with any of his normal movement options. It's a legit nerf at the fundamental level, and it was a good choice. A lot of his movements and attacks feel a little bit "squared-off", and it is a bit of a weakness that makes him unique in a game where you can otherwise set exact angles for a lot of things. That challenge is ingrained in the character.

The stiffness can also make combos feel more challenging, and so they're also more rewarding. It's almost like you're playing with an SNES controller at times, and it's crazy that you evoked that vibe. Anyway, I think my favorite thing about him is that his power actually comes from being well thought-out and designed, and not from gimmicky trash :winter2019coolyul:

I consider that the lo-fi vibe might be why you didn't give him a 4f. Possibly a design choice. If so, I beg you to reconsider, lol. Most characters have a 4f, and some have a 3f. Belmont has to hold so much. Also on brand for a vampire slayer, though. It does kind of give underdog protagonist energy, but I dunno like...help the man out anyway?

:winter2019happybulb:Other random ideas if you want them:winter2019happybulb:

- OTG on Holy Water, or on the downward attack of Leap. Or on something.

- The ability to pick up power-ups with his whip

- Use the 'Pull' toggle when whipping projectiles to change your momentum. Ninja has the ability to grapple any projectile, so I think there's precedent there.

- A 'Swing' toggle for when he's whipping an interact-able entity, as another movement option that can use the swing mechanics as seen in Reverie Summon. You could un-toggle on any turn during your arc to go sailing. This would allow him to Swing situationally without spending meter, but still have the Reverie option in lieu of projectiles. You could even potentially swing on 'Barrage'd Daggers. This would be especially cool if whipping a standing opponent from the air, allowing you to swing over their head, or going into the ground while swinging would put you into a slide kick. To allow him to drop holy water bombs and daggers mid-swing would also be dope.

- Allow 'Pull' and 'Swing' toggles pre-emptive use; if switched On when attacking with the whip, you'll automatically Pull or Swing on contact. This would come with hella movement options as well as combo potential. But also some risk.

- Is there any possible way to implement the infamous Whip Dangle? Where he just holds it out limp and wiggles it around and it can eat projectiles? Maybe wiggle it with your DI while active. You could make it his Hustle lol. Some characters actually have Hustles with a hitbox, it's not unheard of...It could do like 1 damage and 1 hit stun per frame, which is practically how it works in the Castlevania games.

- Employ *super* rare drops from SOTN (like Masamune), using the exact spawn-rates of those objects from the SOTN database.

- ALUCARD?!

- Alucard when?

:steamthis:

Anyway, dope character. Appreciate your work, sir.

P.S. I dropped into single player, and the first time I touched him I landed the most unbelievable ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ combo, where I seamlessly flowed with every new weapon I picked up mid-combo. By the end of it I had his entire arsenal and was air-raiding with holy fire. I was planning on maybe trying to send it to you, but that *one* replay got corrupted when the character went funky on me. Which is fixed after deleting my cache btw, and he now shows up in the codex. All my other Belmont replays work but that combo showcase. It was maybe the best thing I'd done with any character ever, and stylin'. Very sore to lose it T_T
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Showing 1-2 of 2 comments
Thomased22  [developer] 18 Aug @ 2:25pm 
I'll let you in on e few secrets.

He does have a frame 4. Flip the crack button. It has a backside hitbox just like in the 16-18 bit castlevania games.

We aren't interested in adding any additional toggles. If we wanted to make swing more of a thing, we'd have to do it some other way. And even then I think it's in a fine place. The way you describe it is definitely not the way we would do it.

Do note that ceilings stay on screen for a reason, you can swing on them one more time (or chain multiple) after which it will die.

Generally we've refrained from giving this character OTGs. It would make his already great knockdown tools way too good. I think Axe *can* otg if I recall correctly but you obviously need to be a god tier foresight planner to make that happen. That's the only real balanced way for us to have OTGs on this character.

Pull on projectiles wouldn't make the most sense. The point of the mechanic is to bring you closer to your opponent and that I feel would go against the design of the character of killing all options to run away and camp. Pull isn't for that sort of thing. Pre-emptive pull would add too much clutter to the UI as well. We've done well so far making it so UI only appears when it's applicable. That would generally go against that player friendly UI we've been working towards.

Bible Pages can pick up items. The spiral toggle will pick up everything in a wide area essentially.

When I was designing the character, I wanted a physics based "dangle" (it's real name is "Brandish Whip". But it wasn't going to happen. Instead we made a move based off of it. That being the Brandish attack in the Brandish stance. Which is aimable and great on block and in combos. It's in the spirit of the original.

"Whiplash" is both based on the SOTN incarnation of Brandish and the Whiplash attack from Circle of The Moon.

RNG weapons is not within the scope of the character or in the spirit of his design. If we did an Alucard, I still think it wouldn't be RNG. There's a lot of consequences on a technical level when you do an RNG character.

I'm glad you and many others feel so strongly about Belmont. He is a work of love (and spite) from me and my friend Tin. I designed the kit, did the sound design, wrote the codex, and am the voice of the character. However, without Tin, who did all the amazing faithful spritework, and almost all of the script related stuff, it would never have been possible.

That being said while I have ideas for a Soma character (which I think would be slightly more interesting than Alucard) I wouldn't expect us to make another Castlevania character any time soon. Tin has his own projects and whatnot and Belmont is already a character he maintains and updates. If we did another Castlevania character, he'd potentially return to sprite the character he said (to keep the artstyle consistent) but we'd want a different scripter.

I wouldn't get too excited for this either nothing is currently actively in the works. It's a potential future though.

Definitely keep experimenting with the character and reading the Codex. You still have a good bit to learn about him that will make you an even better player. Try to complete some of his achievements. You'll get more lore and cosmetics the more you complete.

Merry hunting!
TinFoilMkIV  [developer] 18 Aug @ 4:18pm 
Hey. I'm the coder for Belmont. Always appreciate big feedback things. So lemme go through it as well. Though Thomas already got your big point, in that he does have a "secret" f4 with the backside hitbox on Whip Crack. Ultimately made the move icon show the later frame data as it just seemed more intuitive for the parry to default to the front hit.

We absolutely did try to give the "controller" feel to his movement. Heck the one toggle used to just be called "down" and meant to be like holding the down direction on the d-pad. I gave it context based names to make it easier to tell what it does for each moves recently.

Definitely put a lot of work into designing him to still function well within the limitations. So thanks for noticing!

- OTG's are really powerful and can easily become really degenerate in Yomi, so opted not to have any, despite that holy water would fun as one. Down whip is maybe. I can consider that. Grand Cross used to hit OTG but had to remove it cuz it ended up being a problem.

- Pickups on whip? Not a bad idea. I feel like that might be a bit awkward in practice though. Can at least give it some thought. As Thomas mentioned, Bible pages can pick up powerups, and Holy Water can burn hearts to create extra projectiles, as a way to get value out of them if they're too far to pick up reasonably.

- Swing toggle, sounds kinda fun. Though I'm not sure I could make it play well with moving objects. Making the swing half decent on the stationary platform was already a pain. I don't think it's in the cards but I don't dislike the idea in principal.

- preemptive pull? I'm gonna need a clearer explanation. I'm not sure how you're seeing this function since it's already an effect applied immediately after the hit.

- Brandish is the equivalent of the controlled whip move. That and Whiplash is meant to represent a full speed spin on that stance. Making it fully physics based IS possible, but not really something I want to personally tackle. Definitely considered it and did try to see if we could get another coder to make it happen. But didn't work out.

- RNG drops are not something I wanna get into, not to mention trying to balance rare but powerful items and expanding the move set. Could be neat for another character.

- Alucard also something I've thought about, but I have no idea how I'd trim down his equipment and move set into something sane without removing really iconic and cool things. So no real plans to give that a serious go unfortunately (that and too many other projects I need to get on)

- We do got discord channels on the main modding server and a few others if you ever wanna chat over there. Always down for it.


Lastly, sucks about the dead replay. Sounds like it was an awesome one.
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