Squad 44

Squad 44

Chapter Red: Bloody Fall
Bushwicks  [developer] 31 Dec, 2023 @ 5:58am
Bug reports / crash issues / suggestions / feedbacks
Priviet, comrades

Feel free to use this thread to keep us informed about any bug or crash issue you might encounter. Feedbacks & suggestions are welcome too !

In order for us to sort the bug/crashes and classify them more efficiently, we'd like you guys to follow this scheme :

- Title (please be as precise & short as possible!)
- Description of the specific issue
- The name of the map AND its layer on which you experienced this issue so far
- A screenshot, or even better, a video to illustrate your feedback

⚠️ IF YOU'RE A SERVER HOST OR A PLAYER WHO JUST EXPERIENCED A CRASH
Please, PLEASE, copy/paste the crashlog in your post so we can fix it if the crash is ChapterRed-related. Thanks!

- The Redland Collective Team
Last edited by Bushwicks; 31 Dec, 2023 @ 6:35am
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
How do I install the mod on my own server?
OG PEANUT 23 Mar, 2024 @ 12:18pm 
some fixes/recommendations:
-change sound of SVT-40 / ASV-36 so it can be distinguishable from gewehr 43.
-Add DSHK tripod and wheeled on ground variants for heavy MG build-able for Soviet faction (sound effects such as cracks, fly bys can be copied from M2 browning)
otherwise very great mod. very great work on this
Last edited by OG PEANUT; 23 Mar, 2024 @ 12:18pm
Battleshipfree99 22 Jun, 2024 @ 9:30am 
Balance is moderate to poor.
-Soviet side usually abusing PPD and SVT kits.
-KV-1, T-34 and T-60 (EXTREME high rate of fire) can easily wipe out all German tanks (1940 ones) in any frontal engagement.

-German side is far inferior in armor.
With 5cm PzIIIG removed, all vehicles are now from 1940 France layers: 3.7cm PzIII and Pz38(t) in majority. 3.7cm APCR and 7.5cm HEAT (penetration ~80mm) can merely penetrate the side of T-34 (prone to richochet) or KV-1 (simply can't penetrate).
-Heavily relying on experienced Logi to build 88s and cooperate with tanks to ambush KV-1 and T-34.

Historical info on 3.Pz in 1941.8-12
(NARA T315 R117)
Page 417: Tank strength on 1941.8.15. PzII, 3.7cm PzIII (IIIa), 5cm PzIII (IIIb) and PzIV only. PzII and 5cm PzIII : 3.7cm PzIII and 7,5cm PzIV ~ 24:12 = 2:1.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ly85znmWZBl8Y3LXjKOMhPydePRdevnU/view?usp=sharing
Page 424: Tank strength on 1941.8.22. PzII, PzIII and PzIV only.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1boPPss81mZmvuY2FrZM1LbM-829y_jC3/view?usp=sharing
Page 512: Self-propelled AT battalion 521 attached to 3.Pz was armed with 4.7cm PzJag I, which is not yet modeled in game.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jFgmm90TE2S6ONiDAWj1GSCNVNKvlxC-/view?usp=sharing
Page 524: Evidence of 8.8cm Flak in battlegroups.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ykQV69l12DdMPOcKPG-I66_Rjqv1cO-M/view?usp=sharing/

Suggestion
1. Re-balance 3.Pz tank pool.
-Remove 38t and StugIIIA.
-Maybe like PzII and 5cm PzIII (PzIIIG in game) 4 each, 3.7cm PzIII (PzIIIF in game) and PzIVD 2 each?
-Keep the 2cm SPW as they were in the armored recon battalion historically.
2. Remove Soviet APCR (76mm BR-350P) and 45mm BR-240SP, unless for balance purpose. They were issued to troops no sooner than Spring 1943.
3. Remove Schiessbecher rifle grenade launcher, unless for balance purpose (improving infantry AT and "anti-SMG" capability XD). It was issued to troops from Autumn 1942.
4. Limit SMG abuse (assigning others as squad leader to share the kit, or creating too many squads for the SMG kit), or re-balance PPD.

Note:
1. As tested before PzIIIG was removed, PzIIIG also struggles to penetrate T-34 and KV-1 frontally, so replacing 38t and Stug with more PzIIIG means only a slight improvement. If the German side has more 5cm PzIIIG, it will have a fairer chance taking out a T-34 (from the side). Meanwhile, KV-1 is still formidable... unless flank shot by 5cm PzGr40 APCR from very close range. It's like fighting a Tiger with 75mm Sherman in vanilla. (Yet, Soviet sides have T-34 and BT-7 that can easily out-maneuver PzIII, which in the case of vanilla, German side only has Puma that can out-maneuver a Sherman.)
2. 2 KV-1 and 3 T-34 isn't too off-balance if the German side has some experienced 88 gunners. Yet, it all depends on the 88.
Last edited by Battleshipfree99; 22 Jun, 2024 @ 11:36am
[IR9] KahlerKrieg 22 Jun, 2024 @ 10:02am 
Please reduce the number of t34 and Kw1 in the mod. I believe they are to overpowered against Pz IV D and Stug III A and it would not be balancend.
Bushwicks  [developer] 22 Jun, 2024 @ 10:25am 
Hi lads, thanks for your feedbacks! If any other players would like to drop a report as well, please let them flow, we'll need as much as possible to properly balance what needs to be reworked

Cheers
Bushwicks  [developer] 22 Jun, 2024 @ 1:38pm 
Originally posted by Battleshipfree99:
Balance is moderate to poor.
-Soviet side usually abusing PPD and SVT kits.
-KV-1, T-34 and T-60 (EXTREME high rate of fire) can easily wipe out all German tanks (1940 ones) in any frontal engagement.

-German side is far inferior in armor.
With 5cm PzIIIG removed, all vehicles are now from 1940 France layers: 3.7cm PzIII and Pz38(t) in majority. 3.7cm APCR and 7.5cm HEAT (penetration ~80mm) can merely penetrate the side of T-34 (prone to richochet) or KV-1 (simply can't penetrate).
-Heavily relying on experienced Logi to build 88s and cooperate with tanks to ambush KV-1 and T-34.

Historical info on 3.Pz in 1941.8-12
(NARA T315 R117)
Page 417: Tank strength on 1941.8.15. PzII, 3.7cm PzIII (IIIa), 5cm PzIII (IIIb) and PzIV only. PzII and 5cm PzIII : 3.7cm PzIII and 7,5cm PzIV ~ 24:12 = 2:1.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ly85znmWZBl8Y3LXjKOMhPydePRdevnU/view?usp=sharing
Page 424: Tank strength on 1941.8.22. PzII, PzIII and PzIV only.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1boPPss81mZmvuY2FrZM1LbM-829y_jC3/view?usp=sharing
Page 512: Self-propelled AT battalion 521 attached to 3.Pz was armed with 4.7cm PzJag I, which is not yet modeled in game.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jFgmm90TE2S6ONiDAWj1GSCNVNKvlxC-/view?usp=sharing
Page 524: Evidence of 8.8cm Flak in battlegroups.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ykQV69l12DdMPOcKPG-I66_Rjqv1cO-M/view?usp=sharing/

Suggestion
1. Re-balance 3.Pz tank pool.
-Remove 38t and StugIIIA.
-Maybe like PzII and 5cm PzIII (PzIIIG in game) 4 each, 3.7cm PzIII (PzIIIF in game) and PzIVD 2 each?
-Keep the 2cm SPW as they were in the armored recon battalion historically.
2. Remove Soviet APCR (76mm BR-350P) and 45mm BR-240SP, unless for balance purpose. They were issued to troops no sooner than Spring 1943.
3. Remove Schiessbecher rifle grenade launcher, unless for balance purpose (improving infantry AT and "anti-SMG" capability XD). It was issued to troops from Autumn 1942.
4. Limit SMG abuse (assigning others as squad leader to share the kit, or creating too many squads for the SMG kit), or re-balance PPD.

Note:
1. As tested before PzIIIG was removed, PzIIIG also struggles to penetrate T-34 and KV-1 frontally, so replacing 38t and Stug with more PzIIIG means only a slight improvement. If the German side has more 5cm PzIIIG, it will have a fairer chance taking out a T-34 (from the side). Meanwhile, KV-1 is still formidable... unless flank shot by 5cm PzGr40 APCR from very close range. It's like fighting a Tiger with 75mm Sherman in vanilla. (Yet, Soviet sides have T-34 and BT-7 that can easily out-maneuver PzIII, which in the case of vanilla, German side only has Puma that can out-maneuver a Sherman.)
2. 2 KV-1 and 3 T-34 isn't too off-balance if the German side has some experienced 88 gunners. Yet, it all depends on the 88.

Great feedback, thanks! Gonna forward that to the team
[IR9] KahlerKrieg 22 Jun, 2024 @ 2:34pm 
Also the PPD has not enough recoil for that much Firerate.
[IR9] KahlerKrieg 22 Jun, 2024 @ 2:36pm 
KW1 Turretturningspeed is also too high i believe.
It's been already noted, but soviet KV-1s and T-34s are virtually unkillable unless they are immobile and recieve a direct airstrike. The PzB is effectively worthless against anything but the BT. T-60 has too much sloped armor. I haven't been able to use it against one, I'm pretty sure from a certain gajin game I know for a fact, the PzB is practically worthless against the T-60 and can't pen it.

Another thing. I've been toying with the PzB and been shooting soviet tank tracks, but for whatever reason, either hitting the sprockets or the tracks themselves don't appear to damage them one bit. I don't know if this is a bug or just me being bad, but I don't know.

Magnetic mines, I tried placing a magnetic mine ontop of the engine block of a T-34, but it wouldn't stick. Wierd, all just ''redzone'' while the tracks and the area behind the sprockets is ''green''.

Lastly, KV-1s and T-34s are too op. It's been said before. It all relies on 88 AA guns (as in real life early war), but the historic tactic of baiting tanks into the view of 88s doesn't really work in post scriptum. Not everybody knows the whole fight against the KV-1s and T-34s relies on 88s, some people do, like me, but I doubt the common person does. Perhaps if you'd want to encourage people to build 88s by placing a few static ones on the map? Don't account them as a buff to the germans, mind you. Just as a reminder for situations like ''oh hey, right this is a big gun, this big gun is the only thing that seems to damage the soviet tanks! Hey we should build more!'' Or otherwise make people aware somehow that they should focus on building 88mm AA guns.


Lastly, I don't find the SVT-40 to be considered overpowered. But in a rebalancing scenario I'd recommend opting for a SVT-38 instead. Nearly the same, but then you can replace the magazine reload with a slower stripper-clip reload to make it an equal to the G41.
Last edited by poopenfartenfuhrer; 22 Jun, 2024 @ 4:55pm
Battleshipfree99 23 Jun, 2024 @ 2:12am 
Originally posted by Shaky:
The PzB is effectively worthless against anything but the BT. T-60 has too much sloped armor. I haven't been able to use it against one, I'm pretty sure from a certain gajin game I know for a fact, the PzB is practically worthless against the T-60 and can't pen it.
Try the sides. T-60 and BT have very weak side armor and should be easily knocked out by PzB39.

Originally posted by Shaky:
Another thing. I've been toying with the PzB and been shooting soviet tank tracks, but for whatever reason, either hitting the sprockets or the tracks themselves don't appear to damage them one bit.
Currently, German side heavily relies on Schiessbecher's HEAT grenade to immobilize KV-1 and T-34. But as
Originally posted by Battleshipfree99:
3. Remove Schiessbecher rifle grenade launcher, unless for balance purpose (improving infantry AT and "anti-SMG" capability XD). It was issued to troops from Autumn 1942.
it's not historically accurate.

Originally posted by Shaky:
Magnetic mines, I tried placing a magnetic mine ontop of the engine block of a T-34, but it wouldn't stick. Wierd, all just ''redzone'' while the tracks and the area behind the sprockets is ''green''.
HHL-3 was issued since summer 1942, so should be removed from 1941 layers unless for balance purpose.

For infantry AT, German side should receive Geballte Ladung & Brandflasche as counterparts to RPG40 & Molotov Cocktail for balance (even if one of them is over-powered, the game is still balanced if both sides have it).
(Molotov Cocktail was first mass produced and nicknamed by Finns, not something unique to Soviets. Brandflasche was the German "Molotov Cocktail" in mass production.
What was unique to Soviets was the KS bottle, a phosphorus mixture that has the effect of thick white smoke and also combust. KS mixture was used by British and Soviets in WW2.)
Last edited by Battleshipfree99; 23 Jun, 2024 @ 2:58am
Bushwicks  [developer] 23 Jun, 2024 @ 5:14am 
We're going through all of those feedbacks and rebalancing things as we go

If other players are reading that, please drop your reports !
Richard McBeef 23 Jun, 2024 @ 6:32am 
I'd be fine with the haftholladung and schiessbecher getting replaced by more 3kg ladungs and geballteladungs (perhaps via a second pionier per squad) for the sake of historical accuracy although I think the absolute key to this is significantly reducing the amount of KVs and T34s available in the Soviet tank pools. Across a dozen or so matches I've seen a t60 and a BT7 maybe once each, probably because they're strictly inferior to their alternatives and the time and resource investment required to knock out a t34/kv means that the Soviets rarely run out before the end of the match.

Secondly, I agree that prebuilt 88s on a couple of overlook positions in a manner similar to how it's implemented on some of the 44/45 maps would be beneficial on defensive layers but it doesn't really have an affect on German attack layers.

Thirdly I think the low recoil, large magazine and prevalence of PPDs in soviet squads (up to three I believe) has a corrosive influence on infantry combat as the Germans don't really have a reliable counter to this in the mp40, either at long range or short. I propose that Soviet squads have only two PPDs per squad (Squad leader and Sapper) in order to bring them in line with German firepower while retaining asymmetrical balance and reflecting the hit-or-miss availability of SMGs to Soviets in the immediate aftermath of Barbarossa. I don't think reducing the PPD to stick magazines would be viable as an alternative as I imagine high RoF/tiny magazine SMGs wouldn't be particularly fun for Soviet players. Additionally (or alternatively), the Germans could have the option of a second MG34 per squad given that they're panzergrenadiers.

Finally, (and I know the devs have control over this rather than the Chapter Red team but a man can dream) I think bringing back towable AT guns would do wonders. The flat maps of Chapter Red make building paks close enough to feasibly pen enemy armour dubious if not outright impossible.
Battleshipfree99 23 Jun, 2024 @ 4:04pm 
Originally posted by Richard McBeef:
Across a dozen or so matches I've seen a t60 and a BT7 maybe once each, probably because they're strictly inferior to their alternatives and the time and resource investment required to knock out a t34/kv means that the Soviets rarely run out before the end of the match.
I've seen more T-60 I think.
BT is a counterpart to 38t, fast and agile, easily sneaking behind its opponent.
T-60 has inferior visibility but much superior fire power. It can take out PzII, 38t, PzIIIF, PzIVD in seconds (frontally, since all have 20~30mm frontal armor). Currently, the only German tank that can withstand T-60 is StugIIIA (before both tracks are damaged and flank killed by that same T-60, XD).

Imho, T-60 should be re-balanced, or the German tank pool should have more PzIIIG (with 50mm frontal armor that is immune to 20mm ShVK).
Last edited by Battleshipfree99; 23 Jun, 2024 @ 4:16pm
Richard McBeef 24 Jun, 2024 @ 12:43am 
Originally posted by Battleshipfree99:
I've seen more T-60 I think.
That's interesting. I've only seen one and while it killed a Pz 38 (t) pretty easily it also got knocked pretty much instantly by 37mm sidepens.
Originally posted by Battleshipfree99:
Imho, T-60 should be re-balanced, or the German tank pool should have more PzIIIG (with 50mm frontal armor that is immune to 20mm ShVK).
I think adding the IIIG to the tank pool is the way to go, especially since it's already modelled. That way the T-60 still has value against Pz IIs and 38 (t)s but isn't strictly invulnerable to most German armour. Ideally we'd get also get Pz IV F1s with 50mm frontal since they came into service in April 41 I believe
Last edited by Richard McBeef; 24 Jun, 2024 @ 12:44am
Going over some statistics, right now the Stug IIIa has the most penetration power of all the tanks available to the germans with their newer gr 39 heat shells (80mm rha). Which makes it one of the few capable matching the T-34 and have a small chance at sidepenning the KV-1. Continuing with that trend. Right now the KV-1 can only be sidepenned by the Stug or the pak38, or optionally the pz3g. I'm not encounting for engagements under 100 meters with this.

It's fair that the soviets will have a metal beast of their own like the KV-1. But at least the germans should be given a fair chance. After all it'd need to be a direct hit without any horizontal angle to have a chance at sidepenning the KV-1. That by itself is already extremely difficult. So it's only fair to give the germans the stuff they need to be given that chance. That said, no pz 38ts, or at least less of them, and more stug 3s or pz3gs.

Another thing that suprises me, why are the germans wearing late war equipment in the october map? We already have the french campaign german models with period accurate models, I don't understand why I'm seeing dudes with sumpftarn jackets and ankle boots in 1941. It's plausible, but I don't know about the sheer extend they had been distributed by then.
Last edited by poopenfartenfuhrer; 24 Jun, 2024 @ 5:20am
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