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Left 4 Dead 2 >  Workshop > Zanieon's Workshop > Buried Deep [1/2] > Discussions
Buried Deep [1/2]
Description Discussions7 Comments914 Change Notes
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Zanieon  [developer] 24 Dec, 2022 @ 12:26pm
Feedback/Suggestions and WIP
This thread is for telling what do you think about the campaign, constructive criticism is accepted as well elaborated arguments, short sentences without further explanation will be deleted.



Common feedback already recieved:
1) Shorten the maps because they are too long:
R: Not happening because it is literally the first and main feature of the campaign.

2) Add supplies or at least an ammo pile before the 4 Gates Mega Event in Chapter 4:
R: The idea of that event is exactly test if your team have a good synergy overall, this includes the loadout of each other, people won't run dry on ammo if 2 survivors uses Magnum Pistols in there.

3) The scavenge finale have way too many Gas Cans to collect:
R: The finale is adaptative to the difficulty you're playing, it will change the amount required based on that, Expert is 20, Advanced is 18, Normal is 16 and Easy is 14.

4) The Tank at the Elevator Event in the Old Tunnels of Chapter 2 feels cheap difficulty spike:
R: That tank is a 50% spawn chance, it is there to challenge Expert players mostly, he initially was a fixed spawn, but i got too much complaints from regular players, then i lowered him to a 33% chance and i got complaints from the Expert players, so now he currently sits at 50% chance due to that.



Pending works:
1) Alternate Chapter 5 which the finale is set inside The Maze (Actually cancelled because my experiments with a complex moving geometry inside Source didn't go so well, so the Truck finale will remain the unique one)
2) (May happen) Add clocks in the saferooms to tell the players how much time pass between the chapters and for how long the survivors stays on them, this is mostly because 3 out of the 5 chapters are set totally in internal spaces which does not give any clue which time of day is.
Last edited by Zanieon; 4 Jul, 2023 @ 10:58am
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Showing 1-15 of 49 comments
Buran 29 Jan, 2023 @ 12:14pm 
Originally posted by Zanieon:
4) The Tank at the Elevator Event in the Old Tunnels of Chapter 2 feels cheap difficulty spike:
R: That tank is a 50% spawn chance, it is there to challenge Expert players mostly, he initially was a fixed spawn, but i got too much complaints from regular players, then i lowered him to a 33% chance and i got complaints from the Expert players, so now he currently sits at 50% chance due to that.

Can't you make so it only spawns on expert (at a 100% rate) then? Bad rng makes that part unbearable in singleplayer with bots on advanced and that event happens 10 mins into the map for it to be such a dice roll.
It's just cheap when the bots go commit suicide by standing directly in front of the tank (which they did both times it spawned) and now you're left alone dealing with an horde and a tank all by yourself.

Hope it doesn't come as rude since it wasn't my intention. The rest of the campaign is perfectly fine in advanced singleplayer with left4bots imo.
Last edited by Buran; 29 Jan, 2023 @ 12:27pm
#1
Zanieon  [developer] 30 Jan, 2023 @ 12:23am 
Recently i have been thinking in add that Tank spawn under the check of singleplayer/coop/versus.

So whenever playing in singleplayer or versus he will never spawn, the 50% chance will apply only when doing coop.
#2
前岛亜美 12 Mar, 2023 @ 1:24am 
My favourite map.But I think only scavenge final is hard for 4 players but too easy for 8 players even 16. So how about change the final like Last Stand? Every time I played in multiplayer server, it is always end soon. I think this is not conform to the main feature of the campaign. At least defeat 3 tanks in 2 wave or 2 tanks in 2 wave but one with horde(or even 3 tanks once in final wave? That's thrill, but I like it) also collect 10 gas.
#3
Zanieon  [developer] 13 Mar, 2023 @ 11:33pm 
Originally posted by 樱花千代王:
My favourite map.But I think only scavenge final is hard for 4 players but too easy for 8 players even 16. So how about change the final like Last Stand? Every time I played in multiplayer server, it is always end soon. I think this is not conform to the main feature of the campaign. At least defeat 3 tanks in 2 wave or 2 tanks in 2 wave but one with horde(or even 3 tanks once in final wave? That's thrill, but I like it) also collect 10 gas.
What do you mean with this? If you're judging the finale by those modded servers that allows more than 4 players to play, i disregard it, the game's overall balance is not made for that, and these servers doesn't even play like vanilla most times, they shove lots of changes that i generally dislike.
Last edited by Zanieon; 13 Mar, 2023 @ 11:33pm
#4
❆Capt. Rusca❄ 22 Mar, 2023 @ 12:42am 
Can you add more supplies in Chapter 4 and rework the Forest, also can you lower the gas to 7 because it ain't fair for it to be 20.
#5
Deez Fox 9 May, 2023 @ 8:47am 
I was thinking of an event where the players would be ambushed on their exit from the facility by 2 tanks and a few special infected which would arrive before they come out
#6
Zanieon  [developer] 11 May, 2023 @ 12:14am 
Originally posted by Longitude:
I was thinking of an event where the players would be ambushed on their exit from the facility by 2 tanks and a few special infected which would arrive before they come out
Would quite be too much given Chapter 3 already have a Mega Event at the right halfway point of the map progression which drains the survivors from resources.
#7
Hu Tao 25 May, 2023 @ 8:07pm 
Hello so not necessarily a suggestion here but I would like some advice from you.

So I changed the survivor set to 2. The problem is that the zombat custom music is no longer used after changing it to L4D2 survivors. So I did some twerking in the maps folder. I know that you are using the Event.Zombat_L4D1 Event.Zombat2_L4D1 Event3.Zombat_L4D1. L4D2 has so many Event.Zombat and I couldn't firgure out which one to use. So if I would make it compatible with the L4D2 version, which Event.Zombat should I use for L4D2?
Last edited by Hu Tao; 25 May, 2023 @ 8:08pm
#8
Zanieon  [developer] 26 May, 2023 @ 9:36am 
L4D2 Zombat have lots of instrument variations which the game picks to compose it that its actually unreliable to adapt a proper song to it, unless you that song the way Mike Morasky has done for the game.
#9
Hu Tao 26 May, 2023 @ 6:32pm 
So in other words, we have to do a trial and error for it? Damn that is brutal! Thanks for the reply though.
#10
misora 11 Jun, 2023 @ 6:26am 
The director option "ShouldAllowSpecialsWithTank = true" makes the specials respawn in "Relax" and "Peak_Fade" time even if the tank doesn't spawn before the elevator event in the old tunnels of chapter 2, and it makes the game very unbalanced in Hard Eight (mutation4). I guess it's a bug in the director system.
Here is the test video: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV13s4y1w7T9?p=4, and set "ShouldAllowSpecialsWithTank" from true to false can solve the problem.
#11
Zanieon  [developer] 11 Jun, 2023 @ 7:03am 
Originally posted by misora:
The director option "ShouldAllowSpecialsWithTank = true" makes the specials respawn in "Relax" and "Peak_Fade" time even if the tank doesn't spawn before the elevator event in the old tunnels of chapter 2, and it makes the game very unbalanced in Hard Eight (mutation4). I guess it's a bug in the director system.
Here is the test video: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV13s4y1w7T9?p=4, and set "ShouldAllowSpecialsWithTank" from true to false can solve the problem.
I am aware of the behavior, but Hard Eight already breaks the balance, i'm not sure what you are expecting to get out of the campaign when i also didn't make it thinking in such mutations.
#12
洛琪べ 11 Jun, 2023 @ 8:21am 
Originally posted by Zanieon:
Originally posted by misora:
The director option "ShouldAllowSpecialsWithTank = true" makes the specials respawn in "Relax" and "Peak_Fade" time even if the tank doesn't spawn before the elevator event in the old tunnels of chapter 2, and it makes the game very unbalanced in Hard Eight (mutation4). I guess it's a bug in the director system.
Here is the test video: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV13s4y1w7T9?p=4, and set "ShouldAllowSpecialsWithTank" from true to false can solve the problem.
I am aware of the behavior, but Hard Eight already breaks the balance, i'm not sure what you are expecting to get out of the campaign when i also didn't make it thinking in such mutations.

We are enthusiasts of the high difficulty coop mode of the L4D2, and we can easily pass the official mutation mode ,Hard Eight on this map of Buried Deep.
But we pursue higher difficulty. You must also know that in the L4D2, the total number of survivors and special infected individuals cannot exceed 32, so we modified the official mutation script to create a higher difficulty level, Its name is Hard twenty-eight. In this mode, the director system will refresh 28 special infected individuals at once in the build up stage, including 5 chargers, 5 spitters, 5 smokers, 4 boomers, 5 hunters, and 4 jockeys, with a refresh time of 15 seconds, and director system will stop refresh special infected individuals in the relax stage.
But due to some director system bugs in the second level of the map, your map becomes extremely difficult in this mode. It took us 7 days to clear the Buried Deep on the mode of Hard twenty-eight, but we only cleared another map in 2 hours, Its name is Dark Wood(extend) v1.8. In coop mode, the difficulty of these two maps is almost the same, but in Hard twenty-eight mode, due to a bug in the director system of the second chapter of the map of Buried Deep, the difficulty exceeds control.
Your map is very excellent, and my friends and I have cleared it dozens of times in different difficulty levels. I hope this map can be more perfect. At the same time, map makers and high difficulty seekers are both enthusiastic fans of the L4D2. Please consider whether to handle this bug or not.
There are two videos here:
Deep Buried v1.7.2 Pass video in the mode of Hard twenty-eight：
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1yB4y187ed/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click
Dark Wood(extend) v1.8 Pass video in the mode of Hard twenty-eight :
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Nt411N7zj/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click
#13
misora 11 Jun, 2023 @ 8:23am 
Originally posted by Zanieon:
Originally posted by misora:
The director option "ShouldAllowSpecialsWithTank = true" makes the specials respawn in "Relax" and "Peak_Fade" time even if the tank doesn't spawn before the elevator event in the old tunnels of chapter 2, and it makes the game very unbalanced in Hard Eight (mutation4). I guess it's a bug in the director system.
Here is the test video: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV13s4y1w7T9?p=4, and set "ShouldAllowSpecialsWithTank" from true to false can solve the problem.
I am aware of the behavior, but Hard Eight already breaks the balance, i'm not sure what you are expecting to get out of the campaign when i also didn't make it thinking in such mutations.
In fact that mutation4 is balanced in most campaigns with multiple ammo. It maximizes the characteristic of the director system, because the specials can't respawn in relax time under normal circumstances. If the players are highly skilled, it is easy to beat the game. We can finish Dark Wood and The Blooy Moors or any other campaign in two hours in Hard 28, but it is impossible now in Buried Deep because of the bug, even if in Hard 8. Map makers and experienced gamers are avid fans of this game. Among our experienced gamers, Buried Deep is the best campaign, not other popular maps. I think map makers should not only consider the average players, but also the experienced players. What do you think about that?

Here are some play videos:
Dark Wood finished in 2 hours in Hard 28: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1VV4y1d7jc
The Bloody Moors finished in 2 hours in Hard 28: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1iJ411z7ZP
Buried Deep finished in 9 hours in Hard 8: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Vo4y1S7Go
Buried Deep finished in actually 7 days in Hard 28: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1yB4y187ed
The Curse of Lazar Castle finished in 3 hours in Hard 28: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV12B4y1r7zy
Absolute Zero finished in 3 hours in Hard 28: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1qX4y1t7n4
#14
Zanieon  [developer] 12 Jun, 2023 @ 3:23am 
Okay you wrote so much just to say "we like it harder because vanilla ain't fun anymore", sure but i can't simply change the campaign to consider mutations, even more so because mutations themselves are also bonus content.

Also not sure where you think i consider "average players", what i do consider is players who actually knows how the game works, but not necessarily play the game only in a specific difficulty because i've seen people entitled to play Expert Realism when that tier wasn't even something they could tackle with Valve's campaigns themselves, but they still forces themselves to play in Expert just because its the hardest difficulty.

But anyways hope you understand i crafted the campaign with the vanilla experience in mind, only exception is my disregard to vanilla bots because they are ultra dumb, tank with specials in those specific sections works on vanilla because i setup the campaign scripts to get on the edge of balance in those parts within vanilla standards, anything else added or modified is up to you, especially because i recall seeing many runs of people playing Hard 6 or 8 and those mutations overriding the specials timing and permit to spawn in, even when in the campaign scripts i set them to NOT do that, making the whole pacing of certain sections just fall apart.
#15
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