Stellaris

Stellaris

Star Trek: New Civilisations
Fran 7 Jan, 2024 @ 5:42pm
Unliked Race? Undine Balance? A honest critique
Hello everyone... sorry i'm writing this here... but i feel like its just...messed up.

Ok honestly. I start on the 1500 Milky Way Galaxy with Undine AFTER your patch with 'changes' (wich i barely could find except the acension/tradtition a bit). with 'captain' difficulty

What i saw..i still was INSTANTLY confronted with Zahl, just followed up by Krenin (not even 2 min in game and i detected both.) I thought 'fine i go a bit to west'. NOT EVEN 2 systems later i arrived borg. So expansion was just able to south. BUT. Borg instantly moved his fleet to his border, closed up his border and made me beeing stuck in a cold war face with him. He fast constructed a ship fleet of 5.800 while i tried to press out all ships i could, and only got it to a fleet of 3900.

I thought..fine i still have home bonus, as he declared war on me, BUT, no thanks, doenst helps, since his ships just remodulate and dont get any dmg while i wasnt even able to penetrate his shiels, he ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up my entire fleet and moved to my base and killed me.

i am not sure WHAT you exactly changed to make the belance better, but there is non.

I still have the issue that i start with 35 Food in Depth on startup. What makes me going to transfer ALL plattforms to just food income. What makes me go loose in consumer goods, so i transfer some to that one.

What brings down my entire production wich ihad on start also.

Its not that i didnt go all in. I sold ALL possible reassourced to spam ships with buying alloy, but as i said i was ONLY able to build 3900 while he has a fleet of 5800 just absolut immune ships.

Those wich i need to BURST with a bigger fleet to bring them down while not beeing able to build a bigger fleet cause i'm surrounded by enemies, and i'm not able to build something on my plattforms cause i have to much workers, and to less space.

Sorry i don't understand the belance, but to play undine in my opinion you need to be an absolute pro, because seriously all other fraks have way better positions. Not said Klingons with their housefleets or federation packed in absolutle friendly terretory.

Sad... but thanks for the try.
Would be cool if you could make it atelast lore comforn that borg can't remodulate to undine ships. not sure if you realized that normally ONE undine ship can blow an entire cube. Here an undine ships is not even able to kill a small ship. I don't ask for making them OP against borg or any other race, but atelast give them a chance.

Or atleast give the possibility to deactivate Borg.
I'm really loving this mod.... i love to play undine...
But they are so much in unblance in my opinion that i rather go...well play the other 'Star Trek' Mod here, where they are ...a bit OP if you dont play on higher difficulties with them.

I don't only wanna say that everything is ♥♥♥♥ without giving some hints what you maybe could do.

1. Maybe give Undine an edict vs borg or a trait? where they can be able to avoid remodulating Borg shields with remodulating their weapons?

2. Place Undine in a own Sector liek Fluidic Space? So Borg / Zahl and Krenin also have more Space for themself with one enemy less there until Spezies 8472 blows out of the rift on that position? Would it also make more lore comform since Species 8472 didnt break out of the rift and decided firstly ot build a base and go on economic tour?

3. Make Them start with a less horrible dept. 35 Food Minus is in my opinion Heavy. You need to transfer all stuff to food and than also add something on consumer goods. There are way to many unused buildings since you have 10 to 13 Work People to much, and there is no time to grow up for you since you will find yourself extremly quick in a war just producing ships.

4. if all those ways dont help, maybe fortify their homeplanet. Add defenses at the base, maybe a higher starbase level.

Its not only that youre confronted with just borg since even if youre able to hold a bit against the borg you're confronted with zahl or krenin also if they dont fight each other.

I understand Balance is a hard issue in a game with so much races.
But to be honest. there is still lots of work to do (Voth Kekw). Atleast the Mainfactions you promote (where undines are also in) should be balanced even if you dont play or like them much. at the moment i play this games hours of hours, and if youre not in mood of testing it yourself i offer my help as a player not beeing a pro and not beeing a total noob to find out if its ok or not and i promise to not make them op. But please do something... thank you...

have a great week and please stay healty
Last edited by Fran; 7 Jan, 2024 @ 5:48pm
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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
Scrambles  [developer] 12 Jan, 2024 @ 4:47am 
Hey Fran! Thanks for the feedback. I have to say that I feel that their only real weakness is that they happen to start right beside the even-more-powerful AI-controlled Borg. We'll continue to iterate on them, and think about what to do about the Borg problem. In fairness the Undine haven't received much attention in recent times - this update was probably the first we've revisited them in a long while.

As a suggestion, something that I've enjoyed doing with the Undine as a sort of alternative history run is starting with them on some of the other maps, specifically the Alpha/Beta maps. That could be a fun idea if you want to give them another run in the meantime?
Fran 12 Jan, 2024 @ 7:05pm 
Hello Scrambles! Thank you sooo much for answering me! *happy running around*
Well... yes its real pain in the ass with the borg. On other maps its... well lets say ok, even if you start with a very much depth in your economy. But if you play a star trek mod you also wanna play a bit...lets say... with all stuff^^
Fran 16 Jan, 2024 @ 9:09am 
Originally posted by Scrambles:
Hey Fran! Thanks for the feedback. I have to say that I feel that their only real weakness is that they happen to start right beside the even-more-powerful AI-controlled Borg. We'll continue to iterate on them, and think about what to do about the Borg problem. In fairness the Undine haven't received much attention in recent times - this update was probably the first we've revisited them in a long while.

As a suggestion, something that I've enjoyed doing with the Undine as a sort of alternative history run is starting with them on some of the other maps, specifically the Alpha/Beta maps. That could be a fun idea if you want to give them another run in the meantime?

Oki, did another game, and at least i manage to survive against a simple Ensign AI.
I fought the first war, and lost almost all my terretory but i still life.

Issue is still i fight with even bigger fleets against him and loose.
I had 7.000 fleet, he had around 3500 and he wasted my fleet.
Something should be balanced there between Undine and Borg.

Hmm i'm not sure if you played yourself normally again Undine on your Alpha Quadrand map, but... maybe it would be a idea to check it?

maybe i'm just missing something? Trouble is i can't build bigger fleets cause i'm running out of Dilithium and Crew. at this moment i'm -19 crew, and my plattforms still need to grow

Thats how the situation looks atm for me
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/961295402076872745/1196864319925800980/Bohr2.2.png

Tried as long as possible to avoid him, Expanded until the Malon cut me off, but he got everything and had hard issues to fight him, retreated my fleets before he destroyed them, and rebuilded as fast as possible, but i was never able to destroy his fleet even slightest

my start base is full on defense, all tower constructed, the second base i conquered by him, and now constructed it up to 11.500, issue is my crew, i guess second war i can't really win the second one, cause he will have much bigger fleet

Edit: Yeah... he is now on 11k, while i'm stuck on 8k cause of missing crew... game is over, he just waits on border for next war... and thats just ensign
Last edited by Fran; 16 Jan, 2024 @ 9:28am
jstrong 30 Jan, 2024 @ 1:59am 
I'm curious about what problems you have with the Borg. I ask because I haven't seen a single play through where the Borg AI has become powerful. They are one of the first empires to get wiped out every time. Usually by the Krenim.
Fran 31 Jan, 2024 @ 5:24am 
Ahm.... i also never did see a Undine get Powerful?
If you're intrested in how it looks click on the image link i did send above and you see.
I have this situation in all playthroughs were the borg appear.
I'm practily not able to leave, expand or do something against it.

Maybe test yourself out as Undine. I would be intrested in how it looks on you.
(On MIlky Way Galaxy)
D I A M O N D 31 Jan, 2024 @ 9:01am 
hello
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