Tabletop Simulator

Tabletop Simulator

Rats and Relics
50 Comments
Nokien 4 Sep @ 2:41pm 
This seems very fun, thanks for the game
Ingi  [author] 2 Sep @ 3:01am 
@Dungeon Brain When playing with 4 players, there are two main issues:

1. The decks don’t have enough cards
2. The game tends to drag on longer, and some cards (like the Priest) become much stronger than intended

In general, you could try using the 3-player variant rules, but with 4 players just duplicate the decks so there are enough cards to sustain the game
Dungeon Brain 1 Sep @ 8:24pm 
Any particular issues playing with 4? Or was it just not tested for that?
Ozuf 31 Aug @ 7:12am 
It is a fun concept but the win conditions are not that fun right now and come out of the blue. You just keep them in hand and play them with something that lets you win on that turn. That you are encouraged to pass and keep your hand at max size is also not the most exciting. I could see the rule instead being that you must play a rat every turn and then you draw up.
garfield17 30 Aug @ 5:14pm 
This game is pretty good, but I prefer Big Chungus Odyssey.
Ingi  [author] 26 Aug @ 3:41am 
@Phu Mo ᗜˬᗜ Рад, что игра понравилась. Спасибо за теплые слова! :transistor:
Phu Mo ᗜˬᗜ 25 Aug @ 11:08am 
Игра великолепная! Арт очень красивый, возможности комбинаций прям очень крутые. Спасибо, за крутую игру!
Если будет физическая копия, то точно нужно брать!
Ingi  [author] 23 Aug @ 1:29pm 
@adelucasiniesta Muchas gracias! 💜😊
I’ll try to do my best!
adelucasiniesta 23 Aug @ 12:49pm 
It's a great game, you have a new player from Spain. Waiting for the physical version. I send you all the luck possible to find a good publisher. Good job.
Ingi  [author] 22 Aug @ 7:22pm 
@DragonGate Yes, that’s correct. A discarded Hermit triggers the effect of the relic it was discarded with.
The Trapper, on the other hand, only reacts to discards and deaths of enemy rats, so usually when you play him together with Hermit, only Hermit will trigger (unless the Hermit kills an enemy rat in the process)
DragonGate 22 Aug @ 2:15pm 
I have a question the hermit say when discarded...
If I use a trapper, and discard a hermit and the relic, the hermit can make the relic effect after he goes to the discard deck? also the effect of the trapper is actived to because a card was discarded?
Ingi  [author] 21 Aug @ 2:32pm 
@Masdock There isn’t a physical version yet, but I’m (slowly) looking for a publisher :derpmouse:
For now, there’s a Print and Play PDF available in our Discord
Masdock 21 Aug @ 11:57am 
Where can I buy a physical copy.
Stoner Mario 9 Aug @ 10:47pm 
Great game! :steamthumbsup:
Ingi  [author] 4 Aug @ 5:05am 
Glad you’re enjoying the game!

@gastroentomologist As for the auto loss - that only applies if a player has no legal moves left. Each turn, you must either play a pair of cards or draw a pair of cards

@DeathXP32 Regarding the number-based win condition - it’s meant to be a minimum. So yes, you still win even if you have more than 6 rats (e.g., 10)
I considered writing “6+” or “≥ 6” on the card, but ended up deciding against it at some point

Thanks so much for asking questions - I’m keeping track of everything, and I’ll likely be updating the rules (might even have to add a third page at this rate):praisesun:
DeathXP32 3 Aug @ 11:07pm 
Having fun with this. I would like some clarification on something though. Are the win conditions literal? So, if my friend had 7 rats and then they play a Jester with a Scepter, would they win or would they need to wait until they could get down to 6 rats?
gastroentomologist 3 Aug @ 2:57pm 
Fun game! Had a blast playing it with friends. We can't agree on additional rules interpretation though. "If a player cannot play or draw, they loose the game" - does that include drawing or playing forced by card effects such as key and scroll? E.g. witch with scroll = autolose. I'd assume yes, but a further rule suggests to ignore effects that cannot be resolved
Mr. Pee Pee Man 31 Jul @ 6:46pm 
should have read through the comments, very cool game though.
Ingi  [author] 31 Jul @ 8:06am 
@Mr. Pee Pee Man
Thank you! Yes, another player pointed that out as well. I’ll fix it in the next update
Mr. Pee Pee Man 31 Jul @ 7:09am 
on the mirror trinket "lose" is spelled as "loose"
Ingi  [author] 29 Jul @ 5:08pm 
@blmao
If multiple rats die at the same time, it can trigger multiple effects - for example, Trapper’s.
In the example below, the player who played Jester chooses the order in which the pairs go to the graveyard. Then, the player with Trapper with a Bone gets to resurrect the two unfortunate rats the opponent just sacrificed :derpmouse:

When playing Huntress with a Lute, you can immediately give her to your opponent in exchange for one of their creatures.

@Slice Glad you enjoyed the game! I’m planning to keep tweaking the balance and rules a bit, and I’d love to find a publisher to eventually release a physical version. I’ll be posting updates in the Discord, so feel free to join!

As for the Priest + Axe combo - if you had few cards on the board and in hand, you could try forcing your opponent to kill their own rats just by drawing more. The Axe is a very strong card, but unlike the Sword, it must kill creatures - which can definitely backfire
Slice 29 Jul @ 4:06pm 
A friend and I played this the other day and both really enjoyed it! I feel like there definitely needs to be some tweaking for balance (he got a Priest+Axe combo and a Jester+Sword combo, meaning he killed one of my rats every turn and two of my rats whenever I drew cards, and I just happened not to draw any weapons so had no possible counter to that) but I can tell this is a game I'll be coming back to.

Once you've got it down and no longer have any tweaking to do, do you plan on publishing this as a full game? I'd definitely be up for buying a physical copy if so (even better if you add an option for four players, which is the most common number we have for our IRL game nights)
blmao 29 Jul @ 3:49pm 
Do Axe kills count as one whole action or 2 separate? Like lets say

Player A has " Trapper + Revive Bone"
Player B game ends 2 rats to play Jester

> Player B has resolved the sacrifice and places down Jester, no further events trigger.

At that point does Player A only take one rat OR two from the discard pile?
If the scenario is ONE rat then does that mean Player A decides which rat with its own corresponding relic takes from the discard pile by deciding the pile up order?

////

Also does Lute lets you swap the rat you played the rat and lute with? or does it only work if you have already existing rats out on the table? For example the " Huntress + Lute " combination
Ingi  [author] 29 Jul @ 3:16am 
@Chihuahua Thanks for the feedback! Yes, I do plan to revise the rulebook - I’ll put more emphasis on the win condition and probably add more clarifications around rats and relics.

About the King - I want the sentence formed by combining two cards to actually make sense. In the suggested version, you get something like "When he enters play, do relic twice you may kill a Rat holding a TRINKET," which breaks awkwardly in the middle

As for the Rogue with the Key and Scroll - yes, they can cause a chain reaction, and that’s intentional.
That chain is unlikely to go infinite, though, since there are only 6 Rogues in the deck (maybe some edge cases involving the Amulet)
Chihuahua 28 Jul @ 9:44pm 
Fun game! Looking forward to the updates soon (if any).

What to fix:
- Instructions in the rule book were not clear enough and could use some work. If a beginner were to read the rule book, there is no section/explanation on how to win. Mention in the rule book that the only way to win, is to pull a relic card with a win condition + have it in play (if conditions are met).

- Fix the text on King Rat. It should be "When he enters play, do relic twice"

- Rouges. Can Rouges chain off of each other? Ex: Rouge and Scroll + Rouge and Key. If one were to collect enough Rouges and put them in play, they can infinitely stack the relic conditions and break the game. Should relics also be limited to one time use per turn?
Ingi  [author] 27 Jul @ 5:39pm 
@Doug Dimmadome Yes, I’ll probably revise the rules a bit.
For Hermit’s discard effect to trigger, he needs to be discarded by the Trapper.

Topdecks refers to the top of Rats and Relics decks
To put it simply:
- The Amulet places a pair of cards from play back on top of the decks
- The Bell pulls a pair from the top of the decks directly into play
Doug Dimmadome 27 Jul @ 4:18pm 
what does discard mean? the rules specifically say it means from your hand but the hermit says you can discard it, so can you discard hermit anytime? and what does topdecks mean? if i play jester and bell does it trigger every round to play the cards on top of the deck? there needs to be more clarification in the rules.
Ingi  [author] 27 Jul @ 8:11am 
@Buddha-Zilla I’ve now added the link to the PnP PDF in the Discord channel! :praisesun:
Ingi  [author] 27 Jul @ 3:00am 
@Mestre_Batma Yes, the relic that was discarded along with the Hermit will trigger
Mestre_Batma 26 Jul @ 10:31pm 
Really loved the game! Me and my group have a question, the Hermit, when he is discarded from hand, trigger it's effect? If yes, what effect is trigered? The relic it is discarded with, I supose?
Buddha-Zilla 26 Jul @ 10:07pm 
Gundir can you share that pnp version? I just played and would love a copy for my upcoming trip!
Ingi  [author] 26 Jul @ 3:24pm 
@Cocoescap Yes, the Axe is probably the strongest relic among all the cards - in the early versions of the game, it could only destroy rats with ARCANE, but over time it got stronger

The reason the Axe is so powerful is that, without it, matches often dragged on too long, and the losing player had very few chances to turn things around

There are two Daggers in the optional cards (they destroy any single rat), and you can try using them in 2-player games - this makes sudden comebacks a bit less likely

I’m still gathering feedback and may tweak some card balance in the future - so if you play more and have suggestions, feel free to drop by our Discord! I’ve created a dedicated channel just for feedback.
Cocoescap 26 Jul @ 2:50pm 
This game looks great and plays very well, but it lacks staying power. After a few rounds it became very samey since we'd pretty much seen everything. There were a few cards/combos that felt either very overpowered or underwhelming.

The Jester/Axe went crazy and was pretty much just an instant win button. Sure it can start to overkill your board, but you can just use it to take itself out.

Mirror felt way too niche to be useful.

Axe itself is oddly strong. Every other weapon has restrictions with what it can target and can only take out one enemy, but the axe can kill 2 of any rat.
Ingi  [author] 26 Jul @ 1:00pm 
Yes, feel free to print the game for personal use - no problem at all, as long as you're not planning to sell it commercially :derpmouse:
I'll try to update the PDF for both the rules and cards in the Discord sometime soon
Gundir 26 Jul @ 11:07am 
Hello! I saw your game on TTS and really liked it. So I made a PnP version of it to be able to play it in real life as well. Since the rights to the game belong to you, I didn’t want to share it anywhere without your permission. If you'd like to share it, I can send you the link to the files.
Ingi  [author] 26 Jul @ 10:50am 
@Timewinder For you to see card backs instead of black cards when your opponent holds them? I’ll add that to the list of fixes - thanks!

Trapper can synergize well with Hermit, since if you play it by discarding, say, Hermit with an Axe, the Trapper’s trigger will activate immediately - and twice.
Timewinder 26 Jul @ 10:41am 
Can you reupload with backs hidden in check mark while uploading deck, Also
Trapper: Requers you to have it, Have item good with it, Have target to destroy, Another rat to destroy the target, too much set up, only good to counter sacrice and Hermit trigger from another huntsman, idk seems kinda ass hate to have it in my hand
Ingi  [author] 26 Jul @ 10:08am 
Thank you all for the kind words!

@The emporium yes, the Lute swaps control between your rat with a relic and an enemy rat with a relic (the relics stay attached - they’re not dropped from the rats’ tails).
In one of the earlier iterations of the game, I had an item that swapped relics directly between rats, but the mechanic turned out to be a bit too complex.
The emporium 26 Jul @ 8:48am 
Overall Love the game! One question though. Does the lute swap the relic with the rat or the rats swap relics with relics staying with the person who played the card?
Rufus The Sable 26 Jul @ 4:10am 
Very cool! My friend and I played, it only took us a couple minutes to learn, and we had a lot of fun! Do recommend!
Ingi  [author] 26 Jul @ 2:19am 
@MisterFlips Thanks for the feedback! :praisesun:
Yes, I’ll definitely add a clarification about the Amulet in the rules. I might also try to add the words “in play” to the card itself, but that could be trickier since there’s not much space.
Verl 26 Jul @ 1:51am 
Oh yeah it seems I have missed out on the hand maximum there. Thanks for the clarification!
MisterFlips 25 Jul @ 10:22pm 
Loving the game! May i suggest a Relic card clarification for Amulet, cause I think it'll be the card people wonder about the most. Maybe even mention that it means 'Rats currently in play'
I know it's already implied since the card says Rats, rather then the symbol. But it initially confused me when I noticed this one didn't have a symbol and I was sorta stumped for awhile~

Anyways, I can't wait to try this with my brother ^-^
Ingi  [author] 25 Jul @ 9:59pm 
@BingBong It’s not 'Add', it’s 'Put'. You simply return any rat and relic in play to the top of their respective decks.
BingBong 25 Jul @ 9:38pm 
What does "Add another rat to topdecks" mean?
Ingi  [author] 25 Jul @ 9:35pm 
@Stadtjaeger Wow, thanks! If you have any questions about the rules, feel free to join the Discord channel!

@Cacticus If you’re referring to the Amulet card - it returns a pair of cards in play (a rat + a relic) back to the top of their decks, face down.
Cacticus 25 Jul @ 9:23pm 
What does "Add another rat to topdecks" mean?
Stadtjaeger 25 Jul @ 8:20pm 
man.... this is beautifull... cant wait to try...
Ingi  [author] 25 Jul @ 7:03pm 
@Verl The idea behind the Lantern is that you need to hold 10 cards in your hand to win - and only a few types of rats are suited for that, since 10 is the maximum hand size.
So playing a Huntress with a Lantern won’t win you the game, because you’ll only have 8 cards, not 10.

Jester or Witch work best for a Lantern win, but their conditions are quite costly.
Verl 25 Jul @ 2:44pm 
Nice Concept but the Player that draws the Lantern wins every time unless it would specify needing 10 pairs.