Also, it would be nice if the Dev implemented a more realistic air management system. U-boats had bottles of compressed air and filtering systems. I know there were reports of pre-snorkel Type VII u-boats being submerged for up to 3 days.

And while they are at it, give us NCOs. Realistically a uboat had about 4 officers, 10 or so NCOs, and 24 to 28 enlisted sailors.

What the Dev really needs to do is get past the initial small crew concept for pathing purposes. It is obvious the pathing issues can be addressed and larger crews are possible. Dev just implement a realistic crew size option or make it the standard.

So call it 8 hours. That's more or less what I've been seeing as well.

I don't think fatigue plays into it, but Silent Running does, so "activity" plays a role.

So here's what I know - there is only one value that alters air consumption on a per-sailor basis. That is the one I have modified. From previous conversations (here and in the Official Unofficial Discord), it seems that there are two hard-coded values (or ones that maybe can only be accessed by scripting, which I have zero idea how to do) for air volume - one for the II and one for the VII.

What I'm hoping is that, when the IX DLC releases, some of those values might be more accessible. If not, then I may have to shutter this mod and hope someone else has a better way of doing it, as I don't see this working consistantly as it is.

I figured out the vent battery usage. I am running [2025.1] More accurate U-Boats characteristics: Speed & Charge Overhaul which reduces vent power consumption.

I am using a Type VIIB. Now have 9 Officers and 30 sailors, no survivors. Just started another patrol and did a dive to 30 meters, running ahead slow, no alarm. Without any ventilation, I have 7 hours, and 40 minutes of air quality. I'm wondering if crew fatigue or stress plays into air consumption.

I didn't alter any power requirements.

Since you mention 30 sailors, I'm guessing a Type VII? You don't specify... but that does seem to be the ship that has this happen the most often. I'm truly at a loss to explain this, short of the things I've mentioned before.

All I can recommend is trying to move this to the end of the Load Order (furthest down on the list), clear out the Holy Trinity in the UBOAT folder (Temp / Cache / Data Sheet), then reload the game and let it rebuild the mod setup.

Note that these are all in the AppData/LocalLow/DeepWaterStudio/Uboat directory, not the Steam data directory.

I'm also getting just over 6 hours with a full crew of 9/30 but when I use the vent system without absorbers it adds about 2 to 3 hours to my air quality time. Is the vent system not suppose to consume battery power now?

I honestly wish I knew why there are so many variations on the resultant times. I'm at the point where it almost has to be load order, but since I can't really do anything about that short of the traditional and highly unhelpful "put this at the end of your Load Order" instructions, there's not much more I can do. There is part of me that hopes that, when the new DLC crops eventually, the numbers for the various subs will all be broken apart so they can be dealt with as seperate entities. I'm also thinking that likely won't happen. There will be three ships at that point, all with internal air volumes that are inconsistent with the original ships... which is going to make this mod even more inaccurate, which is frustrating. We'll see when we get there.

I'd like to thank the mod's author not only for the mod itself, but also for sharing his invaluable submarine knowledge with us. Let's get to the point: I'm stubbornly testing this mod along with Bigger Crew Limit. With 30 sailors and 9 officers on a Type VII, I'm getting just 6 hours of "air quality." For some reason (without potassium absorbers), we're not close to the 8-12 hours you described. I don't have any other mods that adjust the air quality. In the description, you state that, obviously, increasing the crew size will decrease the time. However, I expect the 8-12 hours to be possible with a modded crew of 39... I've achieved 10 hours with 28 total crew. That's already an okay average. I'm just saying this for information, not criticism. In fact, I thank you again for the work and commitment you freely share with us.

Bigger Crew last updated on JUL 05 of this year. Kitchen Capacity has not updated since last year. This mod has not changed either, so I very much doubt there is a change in compatibility status.

I'm not sure what to suggest, but I would suspect a mod load order situation if they touched the same records, which they do not. Sorry for your difficulty, but I don't see any indications that there are any problems between the mods you list... it is unique to your setup, it seems.

I play with both and have seen no issues. Unless both updated today?

I'll check a few things, but neither of those mods touch the same things this one does.

Right, so, as of August 15th, this mod doesn't appear to work with GJC's Bigger Crews or Kitchen Capacity Adjusted. For some reason.

With 30 Crew, you'd better be! ;)
Keep in mind that POWs also affect this number. I checked the II-D last night (that's where I am in the game ATM), and I'm only getting 9 hours or so currently. I'm not sure I want to start playing with the spreadsheet numbers, though, since I would have to start a new game for each test, and that means several minutes of waiting each time, plus grabbing a mission and getting out of the lock area so I can submerged. Not a simple or quick thing to test.

On my list to look at closer, but not a priority, just so we are all clear on that. I'm a RL Teacher, and the students are back on Friday. Guess what just happened to all my free time?

Thanks for the reply. Forgot to mention that I was in a type VII

So. At the time I wrote this, there was only one submarine - the Type VII. Since I wrote the description, the Type II has been added... and since the submerged time for that sub matched (more or less) what I was expecting, I haven't bothered to check the numbers for the Type VII.

I play rarely enough at this point that I haven't had a Type VII to check on in game in a while. I'll look at it again when I get that far.

I installed the mod and have GJCs bigger crew mod as well. With a crew of 39, 30 enlisted and 9 officers, when i submerge the oxygen meter shows i have ~8 hours till depleted. In the description it says the vanilla consumption rate should give closer to 12

I haven't looked at those numbers, honestly. I just buy full stacks and use them as needed. My own personal rule is not to exceed 48 hours total. There are historical events that have some boats submerged as long as 72 hours, but those were extreme examples and were very taxing on the crew.

In short, how you chose to use the system here is up to you.

How many filters do you suggest to take to maintain a more realistic submerged time for 30 crew, 9 CO, and 12 rescued?

perfect. Thanks

It that alters the size of your crew, than this is the correct version, regardless of which mod is doing it.

Thanks.
I also use the "Realistic Crew" mod with UBE.

With the understanding that UBE is still largely broken as compared to where it was two years ago before the game went 1.0:

I don't believe that UBE changes crew sizes at the moment. That being the case, the Vanilla version would be the closer match.

Which version of your mod do you recommend with UBE?

A shame. Thanks anyway.

Nothing to be done... if it's treating it as "installed on a game in progress", then a new game is required. I've never swapped systems in the middle of a game, so cannot help there.

Hello! I recently switched computer which caused the mod to stop working on my current save. I guess it's treated as a new save. Any ideas for troubleshooting? Thanks for the mod!

So - for those who are still keeping tabs in here. For the first time in a LONG while, I'm finally in a VIIB sub again with 9 Officers and 30 crew. I just submerged and took a look... and I have over 9 hours of submerged operations time.

I am not starting to think there might be a mod conflict and that mod ordering would be important. If you have input as to which mods you run and in which order, I can then compare your list to mine and see if there are any that stick out as a possible reason the VIIs aren't getting the air they should be.

As best I can tell - at least from my load order - it DOES work with the VII after all. Note that this is after starting in a IIA, shifting to a IID, and now into a VIIB, so the air values do NOT get messed up with a change of command.

Totally understandable, thank you for letting me know :) appreciate the work on it!

Since UBE is still in a VERY broken and BETA state (I'm on the discord server where he posts his progress on the mod, so I keep up on it), I haven't bothered to do any testing with it. That, however, isn't likely the problem.

The comments back a bit explain it as best I can - there seems to be an internal inconsistency with how the ship's internal air capacity is calculated. The numbers they are using are not consistent, so we get results that aren't what we want. So while it works as intended with the IIA and IID, the VIIs all get a much shorter time than intended.

As best I can tell, this isn't something I can do anything about without scripting or coding, neither of which I have any skill in at all. So, unfortunately, this is what I have.

Shadriss,

i'm using a VIIC and when I submerge, no vents just air, i'm coming up with an 8 hour value for air quality. The only mods that I have below this mod in the load order are the mods from Links UBE set. Is this something where I might need to put this mod below UBE? I'm using this with the more crew mod listed.

Thanks

That's pretty fair, thanks for replying anyways.

I don't honestly see the point, since we don't have the XXI in the game in the first place. There's only ONE value I can actually change in the game that affects this at all, and it's universal to all of the current boats.

It's not so much that I can't change it, just that if I do, I create new worlds of problems trying to keep up with it all.

Hey! I don't really mean to force anything on you, but just an idea. Until the whole XXI/IX DLCs come out, could you perhaps make a separate mod that tweaks the oxygen values to better suit an XXI? Honestly, I feel that making the oxygen last roughly two in game days would be good enough since ventilations would also keep it going for an extra day, since you can sorta last three days underwater with the current battery usage? Up to your idea in the end, but that's my idea of it-

Have a good night. I'm not really worried if you decline this, just throwing it out there.

Correct. Now that the stream of updates looks to have tapered off, I'll likely update the manifest file soon.

still woks 2025.1

Getting ahead of this:

I've looked at the new update, and from what I can tell, the speadsheets have not changed in a way that requires an update to this mod. I'll be taking a look in depth, of course, but for the moment, the "outdated" label can be ignored. I'll do a manifest update once I'm certain.

Update to the Situation:

The short version is that there might be a way to fix this. It would, however, require some level of coding... which I have zero knowledge of. I'm in talks with a few people on the (unofficial) official discord, but there are no solid plans on this.

It would appear that the internal volume is in the code proper... and those numbers are, from what we can tell, wildly inconsistent and flat wrong. This explains why the VII, which should have roughly twice the time underwater that the II does, still only gets six hours.

For the moment, nothing to be done. If that changes and we find a way to make this better, I'll let you know.

Also, meant to add that if you have suggestions, I'm certainly open to them. Just... haven't had any luck coming up with any on my own for this one.

Engine limitation. In essence, the game equates "breathable air" to "air inside the hull". It doesn't track the two separately... and really, for the most part, that would make sense. Apart from the compressors, there's no reason to separate the two.

Where that becomes a problem is exactly as you've mentioned - it's allowing an exploit. Technically, this exploit has always existed, it was just far harder to make use of. The absorbers always "created" air, just not nearly as much.

It might be possible to fix this with a mod... but doing so would be WELL beyond my own ability. My only suggestion is to resist the impulse to exploit this game loophole and use as intended. Wish it were otherwise, but this is kinda what we're stuck with... with how it's set up, I see no other ways of extending submerged operations times.

This mod is attempting to make the simulation more realistic but this feature is not something that works irl as the absorbers aren't creating new air.

That said, I won't fight you on this, your opinion is respected. Do you know if it is fixable? Or is it an engine limitation?

Previously mentioned. I do not consider this to be a bug - this is using the equipment available to create a solution to a dire problem. As a former submariner myself, I place this kind of thinking firmly in the category of the unofficial USN submarine motto of "Adapt and Overcome."

Using potassium absorbers gives you compressed air which means you can surface no matter how dire the situation is

Not sure why you're getting that. Wish I had more insight myself... and thanks for confirming that it SHOULD be working correctly.

Just to clarify, your mod is working fine and as expected for me, so thanks for the mod, I will be using it!

I just thought I'd share that peculiar behaviour with the consumption values in the native General.xlsx. in case you could shed any light on it. It confused the heck out of me! :)

Oh silly me I should have posted this in Breath Easier Vanillla, as that's what I've been using to test. I came back here because this is the mod in my favourites list. Sorry if caused any confusion.

Re numbers posted, it's primarily the IIA that I'm testing, but did test the VIIB with similar results.

-0.000009 is the value I find in General.xlsx in the regular, native directory; and -0.00000115 is the value I find in your mod.

The ~15%-20% is a generalisation from in game testing with a new game with your mod for vanilla.

For the IIA, the crew use (as shown by the tooltip) goes from -5 to -4 and when submerged hours remaining increases from 10h58m to 12h40m.

For the VIIB, crew use goes from -6 to -5 and hours remaing goes from 9h2m to 10h30m.

If there is another value, I haven't been able to find it. The value I change is the only one that anyone who has made similar changes previously has ever messed with or found.

Which doesn't mean you aren't right... I just have no idea where to look, or why what you are reporting would be the case. Not questioning it - no reason to - but very curious indeed.

Also, for those numbers you post at the bottom - is that for the IIA or the VIIC? I'm betting VIIC.

I've played with spreadsheet values and noticed something weird.

If I edit General.xlsx/Settings in the MAIN DIRECTORY and change "Oxygen Consumption Per Character", it doesn't make any difference no matter what value. This isn't the case if I change other values in General.xlsx, such as "Buy Price Multiplier", which does have the expected effect.
HOWEVER, when I apply a mod that overwrites General.xlsx/Settings/"Oxygen Consumption Per Character" it DOES work as expected!

Maybe somewhere in the base files, outside of General.xlsx, there is an overwriting of that value, which then gets overwritten again if a mod is applied. Do you think this could be the case?

I got curious when I noticed Breathe Easier changes "Oxygen Consumption Per Character" value significantly from what's in General.xlsx: -0.000009 changes to -0.00000115 which is like 87% reduction but in actual gameplay usage only goes down maybe 15%-20%.

Strange

I've been playing around with this, and I think I know what is going on with the submerged time for the VII boats.

I said back in September that there is only a single air-use modifier. This remains true, as best I can tell. What I think is happening, however, is that the RATIO of available air to people breathing it is far lower. I haven't started looking yet, but I am wondering if there is a parameter somewhere that dictates HOW MUCH air there is in each class - the II and the VII. If there is, then the solution would be to modify that value for the VII so that the ratio is correct for the assumed crew size (39, if using GJC's Bigger Crew Size mod).

I'll be looking into it, but in the meantime, if anyone else sees something, let me know.

There have been a fair number of small-ish issues with platform changes in game. I'm surprised on this one though... its not like the original value is there to be found, assuming that the mod overwrites happen like they are supposed to.