Can we please get a version of this without the drawbacks, or is there a way to downgrade to an earlier version of this mod? This is definitely fun for when I want to *really*get into the roleplaying part of a playthrough, but also other times I just wanna have fun and tear through a map.

-15% accuracy for moles are you kidding??? Go play moles and just wait for you to encounter anything with a wind ring or alike buff and it's over.

Some of the flaws are fine, well most of them are, but the Syron one is brutal, same with the dwarf one for just +10% magic damage or +1 resist i dont think its worth it

Some of these flaws are a bit much to just have tacked on, but I kinda would love some of these flaws to be traits i could pick. The syron flaw is easily a 2 point flaw, so you could bump them up to 20% magic damage. I'll be dropping this mod for now but will keep an eye on it.

You could make it mandatory to pick a flaw during faction creation and add some of these options as flaws thought!

Would be really nice to have a version of this with just the bonuses, some of these flaws are a bit much

Some of these flaws pigeonhole races too hard. I have multiple magic-using dwarf builds and the fantasy gets ruined a fair bit, and it hurts even more because +1 resistance isn't worth the hit

Man I forgot the mod was enabled and picked Feline and my god is the 10% fumble brutal

Nice! Every form should have downsides, and i'm happy to see it being addressed officially and on the modding end. Much better than "Rawr im gonna be a scary wolf today!"

If people just want flat bonuses i'd say split the versions. I personally really like the direction of this tho.

Glad to see I'm not the only one for once.

+1 on the old version of the mod without flaws

Hoping to see a branch of this mod with the older bonuses and no flaws, but until then I gotta drop it. It was one of my favorite mods, too :(.

Like the changes...at first I thought the Humans were broken, but then realized what changes you implemented. Thank you for the update.

Uninstalling this mod until the negatives are removed. This is ridiculous.

What about two versions of the mod? One with the older, smaller bonuses, and one with the new positive/negative ones?

Wanted to first say thank you for your mods and all the effort you put into them keeping them updated and balanced. My unsolicited opinion on the mod is that I tend to agree that it kind of stinks being 'forced' into something when the mod originally only contained small racial bonuses like an added flavor. Having the drawbacks be a separate add-on mod would have been nice.
That said from a modding standpoint this is your mod and your vision I hope all the negativity doesn't bother you, if they don't like it they can change it themselves. I'm a moron when it comes to mods but if I can learn how to use the included modding tools then anyone else can to.

the positive bonuses have always given a reason to play a race even if it was only for the flavor of it or the fantasy but it was never So strong as to pigeon hole a race into being used in serten builds of race/culture before...

However, when combined with the DRAW BACKS it absolutely ruins some builds and set-ups Drawees using magic are TERRIBLE now and a lot of the drawback are all over the place some of them are far too harsh. I love this mod my friends and I ALL love this mod we use it in every game...please consider rolling back the drawbacks, the Drawbacks that were added to the game are optional, why should these be mandatory. It's enough to consider uninstalling the mod :(

I don't dislike the idea of negative modifiers. Previous games had them, for example the weakness to blight damage on Elves (but not Dark Elves) has been consistent throughout AoW titles, with 4 being the only one to buck that trend. Though I agree that they might be a little severe in some cases. The exact modifiers (positive and negative) might need seem tinkering, but overall I think the idea isn't a bad one. I think too many modern games, whether video or tabletop, have just removed negative modifiers entirely for some reason.

I've organized my thoughts about why this change rubs me the wrong way: It is too intrusive. In the past you could either ignore the racial traits because they were so minor and use the form you wanted, or employ the traits to minmax. It mattered little anyway because the traits were so small (about 1 trait point, which would bring us to some traits being under/overpriced, but I'll not focus on this). Now you have to factor twice the assets. First, if the positive trait can be used/ignored, but now also if the disadvantages can too. I can ignore a useless trait just to use a form for a fantasy I just wish to use, but getting a unused trait AND a harmful disadvantage is oftenly a turnoff.

-15% magic (dwarf), -15% acc (mole). -2 physical (syron) are really really brutal. out all races those 3 just sound terrible to play with.

I could see -10% magic, -10% acc, -1/tripled instead.

I still don't love this change, btw.

Also why does Goblin gain - Status Resistance? it is kinda odd. Since goblins are supposed to live in terrible conditions on most 'lores' and be really resistant to debuffs, and even in aow3 they used to be blight-resistance (that was used to check against most debuffs in aow3) why not swap canine and goblin, makes goblin weak to spirit and caniens -status resistant?

And please, consider something for humans, if you want ancients to be the versatility / extra experience ones, then make humans the teamswork guys, with a bonus, either defensive or offensive (I'd say crit) while adjacent to an ally and extra fumble when not as flaw

Avian's problem is not that it's not enough vision, it's that extra vision is quite useless, specially with the -1 armour (which I think fits avians, that's not the issue), if you want to keep the better sight trope for avians, give them true sight, so nothing gets past them, that is niche in most situations, but way more usefull than just sight range

I agree with the change to orcs, I think it fits them nicely

I still think that Dwarves, Syrons and Molekin should have the malus toned down a bit, it's something very important that is hard to play around without forcing them into a specific culture and playstile. I like the flavour the mod brings, and I prefer roleplaying that minmaxing, but it feels too strong of a debuff.

@Rewasder I did just increase the Avian vision to +3, and slightly buffed Orcs by increasing the damage from +1/+2 to +1/+3.

The racial traits are being balanced based on the equivalent existing form traits (with offensive flaws that can more easily be played around being more severe), and I forgot that they did slightly nerf the old +2 Armor/+2 Resistance traits.

This would actually be awesome in your additional trait mod!

I love the concept of this, but I would really like to see it as a separate mod, perhaps one that makes the bonuses slightly better- I would also bring humans into the flaw category- maybe a -1 Fire damage and a -1 Blight damage- most of the other races are more "magical" than humans...

Orcs I'd bump the damage they get a bit, to 2, but otherwise it is a very strong trait, plain physical damage, take into account that it is for both melee and ranged, it is going to play a huge part in your early armies

Avians I agree with the armor reduction if they get something like flight (they need to be lightweight for it. Maybe something like lesser flight, which only makes them able to traverse all overwold provinces for a standard ammount, or just make them fast. But yeah, 2 vision is quite weak, altough maybe true vision would be good instead

@Rewasder not to forget Orcoid get a huge -1 res for 1 damage, or even worse avians with -1 def for +2 sight range? Lol, i'd rather drop the form entirely. Frankly, humans are amongst the best races now.

Also, couple of extra things:

- I'm conflicted with the humans are basic and get nothing. I like the whole versatility and teamwork trope we usually get. How about keeping the extra experience gain they had before, and adding a 10% fumble chance when NOT adjacent to an ally (reverse cats)

- You think there's anny chance or way to give avians flight and angel wings for it? I'm so tired of chickens.

- Thanks for not giving anyone less world map regeneration, that would've made the species literally unplayable, and I was afraid Elves were going to get it

I. for one, like the innate flaws, the different species have things they're better at and things they're worse at.

But I agree some are too big maluses, here are my thoughts:

- Dwarves should be 10% magic reduction
- Goblinoid should be -1 resistance
- Insectoid should be 10% experience for non-Hero units
- Molekin should be 10% accuracy (I like that they are half blind, but range combat is a very important part of the game, it can't be too big of a malus as it will be very substantial during the game and the only way to fix it is getting the accuracy trait, not many in game ways to increase accuracy)
- Ogrekin 10% evasion
- Syron should only be -1 Physical (bear in mind there arebarely any low level battlemage in most cultures, and the reduction affects ranged too, you lock them to be mystic culture and summoners)
- any -3 resistance I'd lower it to -2, otherwise it can make some early game matchups literally impossible

I love this mod, but forcing the flaws are kinda bad... What i liked is that it was a minor thing more 'flavour' than anything else, now it is kinda major choice.

@Icy K +1 to Matt

@Icy K if you do, upload it and drop me a link. I tried looking into modding myself but my attempts all went horribly.

yeah flaws no bueno ill eventualy patch them out for myself if mod creator keeps them

PLEASE upload the flaws as a separate mod.

Yeah, not a fan of the flaws. WAY too big a deal in many cases. This basically locks out dwarves from a whole culture for example...one which one of their plot-relevant characters actually has .

In many cases the flaw is far more significant than the bonus... unless you abuse the flaw by selecting it twice. I think it does not stack.

@Merethys I second this. Many of these disadvantages are very crippling too. Like orcoid.

Thanks, but Humans are not done :-)

@Godsheal Powerloader Cheerful is a 1 point trait that increases morale gain by 50%

Not a fan of the flaws. The bonuses were nice flavor, they encouraged certain playstyles, but didn't enforce them.
The flaws do. Horrible idea.

Isn't Simian's morale bonus kind of too big?

Oh! You got on that much faster than I expected. I thought the whole flaw system would lead to a long consideration time.

Generally flaws that can be easily played around, such as minus magic damage for Dwarves or minus physical damage for Syrons will be stronger than flaws that are harder to play around, such as flat -1 armor/resistance.

Hey guys, updated the mod for Archon Prophecy. Inspired by the new flaw traits, I finally fixed an issue I've had with this mod since basically the day I made it, which is that it slightly powercreeped racial units over non-racial units. By giving each race a minor bonus & a minor flaw, it fixes that issue, makes the races more unique, and gives me more tools to balance the traits (for instance, goats probably get the weakest bonus, so I can give them the weakest flaw to compensate)

Ooh, seems like this one might need a little extra tinkering behind the scenes compared to a normal update.

+2 on the update

+1 on the update

Waiting for the update!

Ogre Kin should have +2 straight and -1 dodge .
Simian should have 15% morale and +1 dodge .

I tried making a modification to this. However, the change doesn't show up at all...I created an offline version of this mod, and unsubbed from it so only one shows in the launcher. Launched the PackMan, loaded this mod up, resource editor, loaded this mod up, clicked on Elf - Modifier: Accuracy, and changed Accuracy from 0.1 to 0.2. Saved it, then saved it again the PackMan. Went in game, loaded the mod into a playset, started a game, and Elf still shows 0.1 Accuracy. What am I doing wrong?

Work for Beta?