@Ruby Rose That depends what you mean by "the armor adjuster values" -- do you mean the server-wide settings or unit-specific init?

@Kumavio Glad it's helping you out! :)

I have been able to do something epic with this mod. Avid lover of RHS, not really a lover of how ace3 and RHS handle bullet penetration. Using some other armor mods and this mod I was able to pretty much "fix" RHS armor. By setting base armor to 0, and turning on force base armor, I removed the base armor value applied to all units and clothing by only enabling this mod for pelvis, body, and the limbs.

Before doing this, I shot an ai in the leg with 9mm FMJ and it BRUISED HIS LEG. I was in shock. I tried this again after removing his clothing and got the same result. I am assuming it has something to do with how arma handles unit hurt boxes and armor values. After setting up the settings in the way I described, I was able to cause severe bleeding with a shot to the thigh, arms, and even the lower part of the body uncovered by armor.

I'm having an issue when hosting zeus that freshly spawned players aren't having the armor adjuster values applied to them, only once they die and respawn does it start to work, any ideas?

best mod ever

reticuli how do i install/use your version?

@John Helldiver Thanks for the info, and sorry for the inconvenience! Still incredible to me that so many people use this :)

Hey! My unit uses this mod, we DID experience those issues in the previous version. Update worked like a charm, everything works as-intended. Keep up the great work, and thanks for the quick rollback!!

Cool, yeah, they're on the GitHub site. No hurry. If people want it, they can download it directly from that page, anyway. Use it, don't use it, create a separate mod called ACE Armor Adjuster Advanced, sell it to the Russians... whatever you want.

https://github.com/DJ-Reticuli/ACE-Armor-Adjuster/

As long as you've pushed your changes from local to remote (aka they're actually on github and not just your pc) I can initiate the PR.

No problem. It's on my branch now. I can do that whenever you want me to. I don't know GitHub that well. Are you able to utilize the commits or whatever they are on my branch without me doing anything, or do I have to initiate the pushes?

It could have been user error, but I'll do another scan through the code to make sure there wasn't some oversight on my part. Are you planning on making a new PR with the further changes you mention?

I completely understand, but they all keep mentioning RHS, and did they ever demonstrate that with a video? I tried to look at a video someone linked, and there was nothing on the other end of the link. I've tried every iteration I can think of, every slider setting in AAA, and I can't replicate what they're talking about. It sounded like they possibly had force armor checkbox checked or something like that. My version has never altered the coefficients' functions, as far as I recall. If I put the exponents at 0, I have to crank the coefficients way up like I used to have to on the old version. Nonetheless, I'm glad we had a bit of a re-evaluation, because it's better now, and no crazy vanilla caliber values over 3.6 are necessary, and I think the caliber slider now works more intuitively than the opposite of what all the other sliders do.

My main concern with the new update (and why I've rolled it back for now) is that apparently setting the new exponent settings to 0 wasn't bringing back the previous behavior for people like @emma, including apparently making the armor coefficients misbehave.

Once I narrow down the cause of that, I'll likely move forward with the changes, though perhaps with a one-time opt-in dialog so that those who don't want the change can easily avoid it.

That said, been trying to get 9.3 & 338 to not penetrate level 4 body armor while allowing my SLAP, M993, & NGSW to penetrate. I give up, so I've settled on big DMR bullets penetrating, with new caliber equation, without need for even extreme AP calibers to go over 3.6, where Lynx ACE APDS maxes out. Most all rest is preserved, but heavier armors are easier to penetrate now, and, again, no crazy vanilla calibers necessary. 6.8 was impossible to do otherwise, even EPR rounds. All helmet & soft armor performance is still pretty close, and my other mod pack's stuff has been variously improved. Only thing I haven't touched that maybe needs a mod is 5.56 AK vanilla caliber of 0.6, and that's because it's a funky round and I don't use it. If someone else wants to use my 5.56x45 caliber boost as template to fix it to 1.0, feel free. Oh, and in my new version, caliber slider will now do opposite of what it was doing, so that increasing it will buff armor now, not reduce.

Turning down the damage threshold would do only a little for the AAA issues you were having, but what it does is make serious bruises more problematic... ditto with all other injuries. ACE_Medical is definitely making people way too durable, as just shooting a naked dude with pistols will immediately tell you. The recommendation to adjust ACE_Medical is principally for that purpose, not AAA, but you do get some benefits with AAA, too. Even if I wasn't using AAA, I'd still put the critical damage thresholds to 0.5 in ACE_Medical, but even if I weirdly kept ACE_Medical at its defaults, I wouldn't turn the coefficients down to 5, which is going to make the stock helmets and soft armor basically worthless. If all you use is RHS stuff, though, it's an understandable change, though. With the new exponents set to 0, though, you should be getting exactly the same effects from the coefficient sliders as with the older version of AAA.

@Reticuli I'm well aware of how borked RHS is, which is why I'm using the mod in the first place, I didn't like the solution of just turning down the damage threshold in Ace Medical. With the reverted version setting the coefficients to 5 yields a 2 shot kill with rounds penetrating and causing velocity wounds/avulsions, with the new version I was getting behaviour as I described before, where no matter what I set them to I was getting a 12 shot kill, only causing medium and minor bruises. The reverted version pretty much behaves exactly as I need it to for my group's purposes.

@Ouch
For my new version, see the latest post in the discussion thread above.

For the old version that Sysroot just reverted to, use whatever you were using before this recent update, I guess.

Cumulative damage effects have more to do with how you set up ACE_Medical and other mods you're using than ACE Armor Adjuster (AAA). It is possible once you dial in ACE_Medical realistically, such as putting the critical damage thresholds for Player & AI to 0.5, among other tweaks, to then dial in AAA to enhance that effect, though, where a couple rounds will seem to penetrate more easily. That's part of how I came about with both the new version's math and figuring out the proper balance in AAA... that and the sweet spots for helmets, soft armor, and NIJ level 3 body armor performances.

Additional mods, IMO, are essential to getting ACE + AAA doing what I want it to, such as reactions to being hit.

What settings are now being recommended for this update?

Im trying to get AI to be a 3-4 shot by forcing their armor to be a certain thickness, but im struggling on where to place the sliders.

Coefficients probably worked, just RHS is so buffed it's not apparent. Watch debug. Neither RHS armor mentioned should have failed against those guns. On your system, does 50BW penetrate carrier special with new AAA at defaults?

Threshold dictates armor values AAA starts affecting, resulting in either buffing skin or t-shirts if too low, or buffing nothing if too high. 5 is just over light helmets for slight buff at foot of curve.

Carrier lite is level 3, now w/ AAA defaults full NIJ 3 capable of stopping ball 7.62 NATO from m14, but not M993 or 338. Caseless 6.5 Grendel shouldn't pass penetrating injury unless you unload rapidly, get lucky, angle under armpits, etc. MX should penetrate level 2 vest (NIJ 3A-ish).

If you want to improve injuries as result of bruising, cumulative injury, have reactions, unconscious, and disabling, then check out other mods in my list, subscribe, and configure. Also, don't forget to tune ACE_Medical, as I've done many tests shooting naked dudes.

@Sysroot No problem, just to confirm after having updated to the rolled back version the Armor coefficients work properly with RHS again

@Reticuli Was the Carrier Lite being shot with the MX for vanilla stuff, and for RHS it was one of the IOTV vests with an M4 and 6B45 vests with an AK74.

The coefficients working with vanilla was only surprisng because it didn't work with RHS, I figured that was odd.

I tried setting the armor threshold to 0 and it didn't help.

Force base armor was unchecked.

@Emma Thanks for all the info. I'm going to roll back the update for now until the cause of these issues can be narrowed down.

What vanilla armor are you shooting at and with what weapon? Changing the exponent settings to 0 completely disables those new sections, as the 0 exponents make that component multiplying or dividing by 1. Exponents were necessary for heavy armor and 'caliber' penetration math.

Of course the coefficient sliders work for vanilla stuff. Why is it surprising that they do?

As for the coefficients not having any effect, those were even more touchy for reaching NIJ for weaker amor... assuming level 1 is NIJ 2ish, level 2 is NIJ 3A, level 3 is NIJ full 3, level 4 is NIJ 4, and level 5 is NIJ 4+. Works for me.

If there's not coefficient effect, you sure you're not trying armor that is below the threshold value already? BTW, skate helmet is 6 armor, so tiny buff at bottom.

Obviously ensure force base armor is unchecked.

Check the AAA debug checkbox and watch what it's doing on screen. The next version I'm messing with expands that even further, among other stuff.

Testing with Vanilla armor/weapons, I get 12 shots to kill with exponent settings on default, and about 3 with them set to 0. Player/AI Armor Coefficient also seems to work for Vanilla stuff oddly enough.

Same issue here also with RHS, changing both exponent settings to 0 does improve things (10-15 chest shots to kill vs 100+), although this is roughly the same behaviour you get with the mod disabled. However something interesting I noticed is that the Player/AI Armor Coefficient settings don't appear to have any effect anymore, setting each to 1 yields the same results as the default 18. I also didn't have this issue prior to the last (7th Aug) update.

Will consider rolling back to previous version if these issues persist; not sure why none of this came up in testing, though.

@Coremanite Does changing the new exponent settings to 0 resolve the issue?

i'm experiencing the same issue as mentioned below - units are borderline invincible even with the default settings. only headshots and blunt force through 50+ bruises work to put someone down. players and ai.

@John Rojo Are you running the latest version of ACE Medical? Around 2 weeks ago is when this mod was updated to match the new ACE code, which isn't backwards compatible with older ACE versions.

If that's not the issue, try changing both of the new settings for this mod (armor exponent and caliber exponent) to 0 and see if you get the original behavior back.

Like Optre and SSU PGU, RHS has wildly inflated armor. Try using various stock armor, no armor, with default AAA values or even lower. Leave threshold, but rather lower caliber & armor exponents, and Player & AI, etc.

KAT changes healing grind, not damage. No issues found. Those on other extreme worried about just ACE_Medical being time consuming or difficult, check out my profile in links, as I tune that down to nice balance, not to mention first aid & med kits replacements mod.

Here are longer demos, including mission using AAA. Between window mode and Wirecast, my framerates were even lower than usual, but it was for good cause. Few issues with my modded mod pack I caught & fixed.

https://youtu.be/zYPNZpNQycA

https://youtu.be/2DO6ZmCRHuI

The mod is not working with rhs or ace, 2 weeks ago my configuration worked perfectly, but it no longer works and the ammunition no longer penetrates, each and every configuration causes blunt damage.
https://medal.tv/es/games/arma-3/clips/kROJUsMubGRrIO4vq?invite=cr-MSxlOUcsNDI2NzUyODIw&v=6

@Reticuli Appreciate all the effort, sorry it didn't work out. Would recommend recording with OBS instead; tends to be very reliable.

@Ruca Sorry to hear. If you continue to have issues and want to revert to the behavior of the previous version, I've detailed how to do so in the change notes.

@muody Not sure for that mod specifically, but generally this mod will be compatible with any mod that doesn't also try to override ACE's "ACE_medical_HandleDamageEHID" damage event handler. Give it a try!

If it doesn't work, there's a decent change the incompatibility could be fixed simply by changing this mod to load after KAT (so that this one's override overlaps it).

is this mod compatible with KAT - Advanced Medical?

I just did an hour of demonstrations, and Geforce Experience only transmitted the first 5 minutes of it to YouTube. Better than saving nothing using the save function, I guess. Still not sure where it's been saving all the other videos I did.

https://www.youtube.com/live/CWBJ73CZL0g

Edit: Got another 4 minutes out of an hour. Hah hah. Geforce Experience is about to get uninstalled.

https://www.youtube.com/live/Ec3ONoB5BPM

Thank you for the responses! Ill see what i can do, it is a little confusing with said armours.

5.56, 5.7, and 4.73 bullets all had tiny vanilla 'caliber' penetration values from back when BI or others didn't realize what it did. Later ammo configs seem to realize what vanilla caliber actually does, which is not same as ACE_caliber. Those are few little mods I made you can find in pack if you follow link. So, while I suspect most of what you are experiencing issues with is either using old mods from days when you had to use maxed out body armor to get any effect in Arma 3, or your settings in AAA are now all out of whack, some of you just might be trying to use 416 or P90 and are now unable to penetrate Kevlar. Those mods will fix that. I also have pbo for 45cal, because its hit was same as 9mm and its vanilla 'caliber' was too high. If you want to remove vanilla 'caliber' from AAA equations, set its slider to 0. Ditto with exponential effect, but personally I think that's a mistake. Maybe we should just include these 4 or 5 little pbos in with AAA now.

I don't use RHS, and I don't load ACE's ammo into any guns. Armor mods buffed to max will now probably be impenetrable. Everything in AAA is adjustable in its settings, though.

Defaults in AAA are now calibrated to provide roughly NIJ-rating capability for all default body armor and anything consistent with it. Most important change for unarmored persons is to put thresholds for Player and AI to 0.5 in ACE_Medical.

You can try backing up your profiles in profiles/users/ and just using mine, though, as I have other settings tweaks. Rename username to your own. Other custom and modded mods that you might want to check out, too. Years of research and adjustments to get to this point. See either discussion thread above or see bottom of this guide:

https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2868465442

I tried to make a video demonstrating latest version of Sysroot's AAA and some of this other stuff, but GeForce Experience is not actually saving them. Sorry.

yeah rhs units take about 30+ hits to kill lol, was fine previously

Awesome mod guys, but im having a little trouble setting up the mod in such a way that it works.

Specifically, im having a lot of trouble with RHS armour. Super high values by default, it is such a bullet sponge.

The documentation is also a bit lacking in the page, would it be possible to have a more elaborate explanation of how to tweak this?

Thanks a ton for the mod!

Hey guys, I've been trying to configure the Ace Armor Adjuster and Ace Medical addons for a long time. Can anyone tell me a realistic configuration? I can't get the M80A1 ammunition to penetrate a 6B23 at 30 meters when it should, not even the M61 AP, they only cause bruises.

Nothing wrong with not knowing things; I'm happy to fill you in if you have any questions.

And yeah, there's unfortunately a pretty large degree of things that mods don't have control over (with various questionable design decisions tied to them). Needing to constantly fight with those sorts of annoyances is a big reason why I've largely moved on from modding this game.

I can't see your comment. Yeah, I have no idea what I'm doing. Change whatever you want. I see on the github you added sliders for the exponents. That's very helpful, thanks. One issue I notice on both the original version and this new version, though, is that sometimes ACE_Medical weirdly reports incorrect hit box and therefore armor value, too. So, you (or whoever you're shooting at) can be wearing a soft Kevlar vest and it says you just shot them in the arm with 9mm when in fact you shot them in the back very precisely. Curiously, if you move far enough away, that's less likely to happen. I suppose that's not something any of us have any control over. Oh, another thing we don't have much control over is some of the bizarre 'vanilla' caliber values that are a proxy for penetration in Arma 3. So, they have blunt 50 Beowulf as a very high penetration value, but then high velocity 5.7 is very low penetration and is difficult to find ways of getting through Kevlar.

In any case, I've invited you to be listed as a contributor on here if you'd like to accept it -- I appreciate your contributions and dedication to testing your changes :)

Ok.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you had AI add the caching mechanism in question; while I have no issue with this in principal, I'd caution you against letting AI change things it doesn't have the proper context to understand, especially if you yourself are not a programmer.

Maybe I'm wrong in this assumption, but I'd expect the flaws of it to be obvious to you if you had written the code for it yourself (including the fact that it caches nothing but the XEH settings).

@Reticuli Not sure what you mean regarding a different caching method? I just had you remove the caching method from your PR entirely; the mod has never utilized caching because the little-to-no performance improvement isn't really worth needing to handle all the scenarios where the cache would need to be invalidated. This current version remains cache-less.

"I have confirmed that gear armor changes seem to be registered immediately using even the other method" - That is to be expected, as the only chunk of the calculation that you were actually caching was "_armorCoef", which contains only the player, AI, and side-based XEH armor coefficient values. Changing those settings wouldn't properly invalidate the now-stale cached value, so changes to those settings would fail to reflect upon units who've already been hit. It was for that reason that I had you remove that cache from the PR before merging it.

Very cool. I'm curious if your different caching method actually improves the speed at which changes to the sliders are registered and utilized instead ignored for a while. With the other method you pointed out, sometimes it can indeed take a few minutes, but the debug will certainly show now whether it's working or not, at least. I have confirmed that gear armor changes seem to be registered immediately using even the other method.

Wish I could get the stuff I've been adding with muzzle velocity, ACE_caliber, and some other values working quite right. The are correctly called now, but trying to find all the bugs and getting it balanced is making me nauseous. V4 may never happen, but maybe I should port the extra debug on screen info over to the current version, regardless. It's really awesome to have all the info to check what's going on. Like that shooting range scenario on-screen stuff, but more detailed.

@Reticuli Your changes have been added in the latest update. I can add you as a contributor on this page if you add me as a friend here on steam.