@Eclipse Yes, this mod can make it so that you learn pawns' skills and passions (in addition to other things) over time.

Is colonist gradual actual skills and passions reveal from that mod? (Not prisoners)

Can’t find that one, seen it before

@Maconnais I'm not sure about compatibility with other mods since I don't use any other mods myself, but if there's a compatibility change you'd like me to look into please feel free to open a feature request on the GitHub repository.

As far as the settings go, it's something I'll need to do a lot more refining for. I could somewhat easily make every information-pawn category pair have its own learning toggles and difficulty sliders, but the configuration tab would get cumbersome very quickly. I'll need a lot more information about what kinds of configurations people actually care about before I can really start to nail it down.

I'm glad to hear that the mod's been working well for you. I currently consider it to be in something of an "alpha" state, so any opinions and bug reports are greatly appreciated.

I've wanted a mechanic like this and glad it's been working really well and pretty performant, thanks for this! Now I can perfectly treat every stranger as a stranger. Does it support RimHUD? I removed the skills column from it for now. I also turned on learning for Neutrals. Does that work for Hospitality guests, I wonder?

I quite like the gradual learning for colonists setting, though I'd wish for a setting to have skills not need learning even with learning on or maybe have a minimum revealed amount of skills when Time as Colonist > 0 so we'd know what job the starting colonists would prefer to do, sort of like asking them their preferences. It's hard to memorize their skills at world gen since Alpha Skills adds a bunch of passion variety to keep track of. I do notice they get a skill revealed eventually at the same time, though it'd be nice to accelerate that reveal to be at the start of my control of them to know who should be hunting and who should stay and cook on day 1.

Ok so X means never know, check means will get to know unless difficulty slider at 0 means always know.

thanks for considering straightening out the logic of the thinking required by the end user. the tool should do the twists, not the user,usually. imo

The reason some of the settings are negated from each other is that the description describes the way it interacts with the mod. For example, "never hide controls" means that no matter what the other settings are, controls will never be hidden (even if they belong to a category that is hidden). Therefore, changing this to "show controls" wouldn't be accurate because it implies that controls will be hidden if it's disabled, even if the category that they belong to is shown.

Your complaint is heard though, I'll see if I can make it more intuitive. I also intend to write documentation in the next update to explain everything more thoroughly.

2/2

Checkmarks are for known information, Xs are for unknown information. The ability to learn that information over time can be thought of as a filter on top of that (i.e. if it's known information, you can make it take time to learn instead of being known right away).

Right now, there are three categories for which learning is implemented: traits, backstories, and skills. When any of these are enabled for a pawn type for which learning is also enabled, a slider will appear in the settings to set the learning difficulty. I will be looking to expand which categories can be learned in the future when I find a good way to implement them.

1/2

Ok Mine says "Uknown" now.

So basically the learning enabled v/ or x means v/==yes must learn this. x = no you wont ever learn this it's hidden permanently?

Also is it referring to only traits or to everything with a v/ above that selection opting in to this function? So if not an X.

The problem is this table is too multidimensional in presentation without explanation. Some X mean never, some v/ mean always, some checks mean eventually, some mean enabled versus disabled (X),

Using "Never" hide controls, for example in your query is how the logic goes back and forth between an X cancelling the negative and ENABLING controls, and sometimes a green check meaning to enable because the query is not a negative query.

Suggestion. Make ALL queries of ONE TYPE:
"Never hide controls" becomes "SHOW controls?"
"HIDE faction information" becomes "SHOW faction info"
"HIDE ancient.." becomes "SHOW"

let the user apply one set of logic to the decisions as they go.

v3.3.0.0

this is the only one right?

Mod_2553173153_WellMetMod.xml

Hm. No didn't see that. Deleted old setup file too. Will check again. I guess i still struggling woth what X and ✓ actually meaninthos mod as it can be different in each category. Sometimes discoverable sometimes off.

It should say "None" only if traits are disabled entirely. If traits are able to be learned over time, it should say "Unknown" on each trait that hasn't been learned. If you're seeing different behavior than that I'll need to look into it.

It could be related to the update I released yesterday. If you check your settings now you should see the ability to turn on/off learning for each pawn type. I also expanded learning to support skills.

I wish it din't say NONE for traits but ???? like it used to. Was this removed for some reason?

Should be fixed now (make sure your mod updates to version 3.2.1).

Since it looks like the bug reports and clarity issues are slowing down, I'll start working on updating the description and stuff next time I work on the mod.

Seems to work OK in legacy mode. FWIW.

I'll look into it tomorrow, thanks for the report.

thisis no good, uh oh:

when i clicked on a militor that was inactive.

--
[[RimHUD v1.17.4 Auto-deactivation report]]
(This error appears to have been triggered by 'Well Met [lakuna.wellmet]')

Object reference not set to an instance of an object
--

I put the details reported by rimhud in the discussions page

@Dizzy Ioeuy The default settings are just how I want to play with them, so all X for wild animals is correct (not a bug). As long as you're able to change them how you want I think it should be fine.

Let me know if the slider getting stuck at 0 becomes a recurring issue so I can look into it.

Oh for some reason my backstory discovery setting got put at 0 and is now stuck there. was at 1 or 2 and worked at firs.t now it doesn't.

wait. restarted and now it moves again. shrug.

Haven't had the time kick in yet to see what it reveals and how with enemies but so far it seems to be working more like expected. But the default settings were VERY wonky... IDK, man. The animal one for example was all X. Nah....

I had hoped that one of my changes fixed the settings thing, I'll have to try something else. Thanks for the heads-up.

First heads up to anyone: Again for me no changes until I deleted the config file first. Then they appeared. So make sure you start clean. testing now.

Okay, the update is out. Please let me know if the new functionality is more in line with your expectations @Dizzy Ioeuy (make sure your mod is updated to version 3.1.0, not 3.0.1).

I'm off work now so I'll make the update now.

Right now, yes.

Ok, yeah that makes the mod kind of pointless if you see the traits before you recruit. I could have sworn the legacy version did that already. But guess I was wrong.

So checkmarks apply to learning ONLY traits otherwise they are simple ALWAYS ON/OFF until the pawn status changes to a new set- like recruiting an enemy.... is that how it's working?

Just to clarify on the first paragraph: since learning traits applies only to colonists at the moment, that means that traits are always either known immediately or never known for non-colonist pawns. Again, this will be changed in the near future.

@Dizzy Ioeuy Learning traits applies only to colonists, which I believe is in line with the mod's old functionality. I plan to expand this to the other pawn types in the next update, as I discussed with Brumes Wolf down below.

If there is an X on traits, traits will never be shown. If there is a checkmark, they will be shown after they have been learned. By default, traits do not require any learning and are known instantaneously, but the difficulty slider can be adjusted upwards to change this. I plan to expand this to some other information categories such as backstories, as I discussed with Brumes Wolf down below.

It seems like those are your sources of confusion, but I already intend to make changes that will be more in line with what it sounds like you're expecting.

Sorry to harp: Why in Legacy mode am I seeing traits and everything with neutral pawns who crashed that I patched up in the field without bringing to my base? Maybe I ruined it by experimenting with settings and switching back and forth, but it seemed like it happened before any of that.

Also it seems like traits are instant reveal for anyone if you green check it EXCEPT colonist who wait for the timer, is this right? That's what I am seeing in my game and that's not sensible.

Oh I also don't get: does the time factor apply to traits only or to stats or what!?

Ok, I confess, I don't get how this works anymore. What is the difference between a checkmark and a red x in the areas, for let's say a "neutral" pawn.

Crash victim. I have a green check on traits. I see them. I uncheck it (X) and they go away saying NONE. I do the same at "difficulty" level 1 for my own colony pawns (red X selection) and after a year traits are still NONE. Check it green and then all their traits are there.

I just do NOT get this mod anymore at all.

For those who want to see the information button whether it's allies or enemies, and of course only information not skills, expertise, etc. just check the advanced button on Neutrals and Enemies. Your welcome.

Hmm, I do see how that would make it difficult to do something like a debug mode.
Maybe allowing the player to select additional "starting pawns" in the mod options (maybe under a debug toggle) and saving their ids in the mod config could be way to do it that wouldn't touch the save, but that does seem kinda hacky and would need handling for a new game or when a pawn disappears.
Different way is a setting for "reveal everything after x time in colony" here x time is configurable by the player, this could just use the vanilla records so wouldn't require saving anything extra besides that option.
A variant could be to instead of "reveal after x time" using something related to how long the colony has been around, something like "reveal everything for pawns present before year X", because unlike the above option this wouldn't keep including new pawns and allow the player to sort of decide their own "starting" colonists by changing that option.

@Brumes Wolf For the starting pawns, I just check to see if they're in the list of starting pawns that's used to display them on the "choose starting pawns" page. I can't add a record without adding to the save data, I need to find a vanilla one that does what I want it to do.

@Lakuna sounds great.
An options for adding such a debug option could be a hidden record that can be toggled?
How does it work for the starting pawns, given there is an option to have their info be always known?

IMO yes absolutely animals should be separated, because sometimes they are hostile, neutral, and pets... their stats shouldn't vary depending upon what they imo. it's the people who are devious.

Also, I greatly appreciate the feedback and testing y'all are doing. Thank you!

@Brumes Wolf Expanding learning to prisoners and slaves makes sense, I'll do that. I like the idea of expanding to backstories as well. I'd have to think about how to expand to skills though. As far as a debug option to "learn" a pawn goes, that'd be really tough because this mod doesn't add any saved data to pawns, it entirely uses vanilla records to track learning progress in order to remain as compatible and performant as possible.

@Dizzy Ioeuy The information button is categorized under "advanced", so turning on advanced information for neutral pawns will show it on wild animals. I was considering making wild animals their own separate category, do you think that makes sense? Dead people are the category of whatever they were when they were alive, with the exception of people who started off dead (i.e. the corpses that start off on the map), which have their own toggle in the settings.

Also had someone crash in a pod. they died. I can't seem to simply check their gear. I allowed it for everyone now and fixed that, but what category are dead people? I miss seeing how long ago a skeleton died, in ruins, etc.

legacy mode reverts to allowing you to check their stats. so is this a setting somewhere i can fix?

This mod seems to take away the "i" ability (information) when trying to look at live wild animals. Why is that?

Vehicle issue seems fixed now, thanks!

I feel you should also be able to discover things for slaves/prisoners, because that would give you some incentive to keep them around for a while to "learn to know them" and using that info decide if anyone gets to stay, maybe with some sort of active interrogation warden job?

Expanding the discovery mechanics to more information like backstories and skills seems good to me, also just makes sense when you think about it.

I would also still ask for some sort of way to "fully discover" a pawn using debug mode or something, it would be useful for people who now end up with some stuff being hidden on their colonists that was known before, and for people installing this mod in a running save.

@Brumes Wolf Can you tell me if the vehicle issue is fixed now? Make sure your version of Well Met is updated to version 3.0.1.0.

@Brumes Wolf For non-colonist pawns, they won't be around long enough to trigger any unlock conditions anyway, so there is no discovery (it's fully binary). For colonist pawns, at the moment the only thing that involves discovery is traits (like before), but I'm considering extending the mechanic to things like backstories. I wanted to see how people felt about it first.

As far as the vehicle framework error goes, it's hard to diagnose exactly without the full log but I've got a pretty good idea where the issue is. I'll see if I can patch it up.

So how does this work now? Is everything hidden discoverable?
Also would be nice if there could be a way to use debug mode to discover a pawns info, because currently lots of my colonists would have unknown traits, even though I obviously knew those traits before.

Also seems to cause errors with vehicle framework vehicles error: "Tried to get relation between faction *faction name* and itself.", I think this happens because it is trying to treat the vehicle like a pawn (Because AFAIK they technically are pawns).

As far as the scale goes, it depends on the trait. The basic formula is 1 quadrum per difficulty, multiplied by the gender-specific rarity of the trait, although as with before some traits have unique unlock conditions (i.e. bloodlust is one kill per difficulty).

@Dizzy Ioeuy The option to show children's milestone traits is hidden when the slider is at zero because it's redundant in that case. If the slider is at zero, traits are always shown anyway (because the "learning difficulty" is multiplied by zero).

Good job on integrating with RimHUD. Niiice.

Did you mean for the difficulty slider to hide the always show milestone traits option only once you make it not 0? I moved it and the new option showed up. Put it back to 0 or basic and that option went away. Of course I want to see my children's milestone traits though....

Also, the difficulty slider scale is not known to us, what does it mean? How does it affect the timing of trait reveals, etc.