@Creamsquity

True but if there's a decision to make the world recognise the Byzantine Empire as the Roman Empire, the same should be true with the HRE actually.
The HRE's claim to being the Roman Empire wasn't as fake as some people say it is. ERE destroyed Italian civilisation. The ancient senate in Rome disappeared during these events and Justinian made no attempt to preserve Roman institutions in Italy, likely because all that was left after the Gothic Wars & Justinian's plague was apocalyptic. The Goths themselves actually continued to preserve Roman civilisation in Italy as if Rome had never fallen (just a regime change). The Pope was left to pick up the pieces and rebuild Rome.
To add fuel to the fire, just before Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor by the Pope the Patriarchs had been involved in various controversies such as Iconoclastic practices and crowning a woman (who blinded her own son), Irene, as Emperor of the Romans, which wasn't seen as legitimate to the pope.

The Western Roman Empire decision is redundant, because historically the Holy Roman Empire was literally created as a successor to the Western Roman Empire. The title of Western Roman Emperor was never destroyed, it was just vacant, so in 800 the Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne as literally Emperor of the Romans. In fact they didn't even call themselves "Holy Roman Empire" until the 13th century, they just called it the Roman Empire.

Dang. My prayer is that someone out there is making culture mod compatches now, or at least an update

No it isn't

Is the mod compatible with culture expanded?

Nice, awesome.
I thought this was the mod that removed Romagna and made it something else with the Papal state its own thing, but I guess not. Still, I STILL, to this day, love this mod, thank you for making the WRE option.

Yep! It's scripted to split some time between 900 and 1000AD

Heya! Just curious if the Romanesque culture turns into other cultures over time?

Love the diversity that this mod brings.
Personally though, I went ahead and changed "Mediano" to "Umbrian".

Thanks! I can set up a way to share over private message.

Hey, I recently reinstalled your mod after coming back to CK3. I looked through the files and noticed a number of them haven't been updated for Royal Court. I've gone ahead and updated them myself along with some bugfixes and a few other changes (like more name equivalencies, new event localization, and changes to WRE decision requirements/event effects for consistency).

While there are a few minor things left, I wanted to know if you would be interested in this, and if so, if there is a certain way you would want me to send the files to you. Either way, you've made a great mod.

Localization update out today - sorry if there was some really whack localization issues with RC, but it did push me to figuring out a lot of other localization issues. The mod should overall be less buggy with dynasty and title names.

Updated version is live -- I haven't had time to fully playtest for balance, but I think the given traditions to each culture should work. I also haven't fully gone through all the minor localization changes, so if there are any weird text bugs, let me know. I'll be working to fully balance things to my liking and working on innovations next week!

Great, looking forward to it :D

Should be ready by the weekend. Mostly need to balance traditions out.

How long till update for Royal Court?

awesome, thank you!

@cel10e -- Good catch! That's an easy fix that I just overlooked. I'll update that soon

Love this mod, it makes playing in Italy so much more interesting! I know you are planning to add innovations in the future, for now would you be able to make it so all the cultures are able to unlock the Picchieri MAA innovation? I don't see it available for any of the cultures except Sicilian.

Chval, Grand Duke is spot on the differences and representation too IMO.

As you can quickly check online, you can see "Lombard" is used differently depending by the context while "Langobard" in a more specific manner:

- UK Dictionary:

1 A member of a Germanic people who invaded Italy in the 6th century.2 A native of Lombardy in northern Italy.[url]

- Langobard vs Lombard - What's the difference?: [wikidiff.com]

Langobard

- A Lombard (member of a Germanic people who invaded Italy in the 6th century).

Lombard

- A member of a Germanic people who invaded Italy in the 6th century; a Langobard.
- A native or inhabitant of Lombardy.


It seems you're having a bad day, I hope you'll have a good weekend.

In modern Italian (to my knowledge), the Germanic tribes are exclusively called "Langobardi" while the people who inhabit the region of Lombardia are called "Lombardi". So while in English the Lombards and Langobards are the same people, I chose to make that distinction for lack of a better name for the Romance-speaking inhabitants of Lombardia. Both are correct for the Germanic tribe, but only one can be correct for the Romance-speakers.

Langobards and Lombards are the same people in different languauges.

Nah you are wrong @EA Latium. They are the same people. Langobards were a germanic tribe that migrated to the region Lombardy, that's why it's named Lombardy even today. They started the 'Kingdom of the Lombards' there. Langobards = Lombards in the game, hence why they have Germanic Names in the game you idiot. "The Lombards or Langobards (Latin: Langobardi) were a Germanic people who ruled most of the Italian Peninsula from 568 to 774"... Go read some history.

Langobards were a Germanic tribe that settled in Italy, while Lombards are Italians from the region of Lombardy, which is named after them.

In the pictures the ones in the South were the last actual Langobard rulers left.

Aren't langobards and lombards the same thing? If so, why are they named differently in the north and south regions?

That chapter isn't in the book I have, but I looked it. It's from a publication that the author of the book I used participated in. The book I used was just called "Ravenna" by Judith Herrin. It's possible she used the names from the chapter you mentioned for her book, but I didn't see it on its own -- thanks for pointing it out!

Oh, awesome! I know of the first Ravenna book -- it's the chapter called "The early medieval naming-world of Ravenna, eastern Romagna and the
Pentapolis," right? Excellent choice, I enjoyed that chapter myself! I didn't know about the other article, thanks for including it with the mod -- I would have never thought to look in the mod folder for a scholarly article. That explains why the names are so good! Thanks again.

Thank you! Those were a little difficult to put together...I mainly used two sources for the names but hope to one day to do more research. One is a book called "Ravenna" by Judith Herrin about the city of Ravenna from the late 4th century to the early 9th century CE. I was reading it and decided to pull some names mentioned there, though some from a bit earlier period than what would likely have actually existed in 867. The second is a scholarly article by Nicoletta Onesti on the admixture of Germanic and Latin names in Italy in this period. The article is in the mod folder, though that can be hard to find. Full article title is "Interaction of Germanic Personal Names with Latin Onomastics in the Late-Roman West. The Different Cases of Gothic, Vandalic and Lombard Names"

Fascinating! I really love the Romanesque culture for the early start, before the regionalization really hit. What did you use for your sources for the names and dynasty names for Romanesque?

From what I've seen in the game files there is no way to restore just the Western Empire but I agree that would be interesting. I'm in the process of determining what the scope of the mod should entail (probably events or other features to flesh out some of these cultures) but since the Western Empire would be based in Italy I could see it as an neat feature to have in here

I'd say that is a good idea. I just wish that I didn't have to conquer Byzantium to restore Rome - Is it possible to restore Rome as Western Rome while not Invalidating Eastern Roman Empire?
Not sure if hat's beyond the scope of your mod... I just hate Invalidating Eastern Roman Empire.

@Massive Damage It seems like there are two decisions that are relevant here. The one you mentioned unifies Italia as an Empire title and the other is re-creating the Roman Empire based on the Empire of Italia. The latter one requires you to already hold the Empire of Italia. It seems to make more sense to me to have any cultural conversion back into "Roman" be with the recreation of the Roman Empire but I might test out both options

@Massive Damage -- Thanks for pointing that out...I didn't look at that decision but I'll play around with some of its potential

@Grand Duke Pritzker can you please make it so that the various cultures of Italian can take the 'Unify Italy' decision, maybe it could unify the italian cultures into Roman, since they have the shared roman heritage?

Thank you SO MUCH for this.

As far as I remember from the CK2 talks, the so called Kingdom of Romagna is a titular title that is meant to represent both the Exharcate of Ravenna in its late days and/or the Papal States, it's basically an abstraction that was created for gameplay purposes.

But, that would be something I do far off from now. School got really busy for me so I've had to stop a lot of my work on this, and messing with titles and whatnot is not a top priority. But it is helpful to have this conversation about Italian identity and culture + kingdoms for when I get back to working on this more.

I still think that having different regional Italian subcultures is an accurate representation of medieval Italy, but if you think that I'm papering over that sense of collective Italian-ness, I welcome input on how to fix that.

As for the Kingdom of Romagna, I get the concept of having a kingdom for that region, I just don't know of historical precedent for there to be a de jure kingdom there. Because the only time, to my knowledge, that the "King of the Romans" was used as a title was for the Holy Roman Emperor, often given to the designated-successor. It wasn't really tied to actually holding the land. The title is not held by the HRE in the game and instead refers to the land of Latium and the Romagna itself. Again, to my knowledge I don't know of any kings in Italian history that used that title specifically to say they were king of that region, but I'd be happy to change my mind on that. I think, in terms of game mechanics, its historical mirrors titular titles. But, I didn't know it translated to Ravenna under Byzantine rule, which definitely makes more sense.

I suppose I take each "culture" in the game as a linguistic grouping rather than one united people. Otherwise Cisalpine and Italian culture in the basegame should be Italian, as N. Italy was considered Italian. I think the "Latin" culture-group is best to represent that idea of a unified Italian people, whereas each distinct "culture" is a branch of that. In terms of game mechanics, that means each Latin culture I created is Latin and don't have strong "different culture" modifiers. I just think having each culture represent granular linguistic groupings of the Italian/Latin culture-group best represents the diversity within the Latin group which was recognized at the time as well. Having a Latin culture-group allows the representation of both linguistic differences between Verona and Milan while also showing them as a unified people. I think the main disagreement here is whether "unified Italian people" == "unified Italian culture" and that relies a lot on how you define culture.

regarding the kingdom of romagna title in the base game, this title changes itsname based on the government and culture of its ruler, it is only named romagna if ruled by an independent italian king, if ruled by a byzantine vassal it is renamed to ravenna. it is called romagna, which translated literally from italian to english means romania or land of the romans not only because it contains central italy, but also because it encompasses the territories of the exarchate of ravenna which was the last part of italy the byzantines ruled after the lombard conquest until they subjugated the lombard dukes in southern italy.

except there was a concept of a unified italian people, except they didnt call themselves italian(s) they called themselves latins. literally every major scholar, philosopher, etc from everyperiod of post roman italy has atleast 1 work about uniting italy under a neoroman empire without germans and regularly refer to nonitalians as barbari

@andrisani77

Neapolitan as the language/culture of Naples. As I write the mod, I am unsure how I am going to treat Southern Italy, but linguistically (which may not be the best way to differentiate "culture" but it is how the game does it mostly) there is a difference between the regions of Campania and Puglia from Sicily. And I am choosing to interpret the "Sicilian" culture as representing Sicily and thus would like to have a culture for mainland Southern Italian, especially centered around Naples (except Calabria I know in many ways is more similar to Sicilian despite being mainland -- I'd need to research that more).

@Typhoon

I did not say there was "no concept of a unified Italy". I said there was not a "concept of a unified Italian culture" as indicated by the basegame "Italian" or "Cisalpine" culture. It depends on how you define culture; for the game's purpose, culture relies mostly on language and customs (which this mod tries to address by adding cultures that specifically represents different languages that exist within Italy), whereas political titles refer to a sense of a unified kingdom. There definitely was a concept of a unified Italy, and that is represented in the title "Kingdom of Italy" that exists in the game -- in fact, I plan to change the "Kingdom of Romagna" that exists in the game to expand the title of the kingdom of Italy, as I am not aware of any historical precedent for this kingdom, and the concept of Italy extended beyond where the title is in the game as is.

neapolitan????

@Typhoon exactly.

"there was no concept of a unified italy"
Literally every medeival and rennaisance italian scholar would like to have a word with you

Great work!
Keep it up,I look forward to updates!

That's a possibility - I could imagine if there was a unified, independent kingdom of Italy that held the territory for a certain amount of time, then a unified culture could spawn.

Currently though, any events like that will come after I create all the other sub-cultures. I haven't really delved into event-modding yet so I'll have to look into how to do that!

Awesome!
Is it possible to make them culture shift into italian after meeting certain criteria?