Thank you, I very much needed this for my play through of Belisarius restoring the western empire as I had began it in Iberia, a very Arian Christian place with surprisingly only a 10 percent Latin Christian population.

another difference with the orthodoxy of the east and Latin of the west is Charles Karling's oration and the formation the empire of franchsca (or the early stages of the holly roman empire) with the Christmas day coronation by the pope as part of the larger power plays against the Byzantines and the east and one of the definite moments when west and east for the christian church would split for good.

raccoonrebels 11 Dec, 2021 @ 9:18pm
Any possibility of adding buddhism?

Buddhism really Does you see India on the map . wow You must know absolutely nothing about history. the only reason India and other nations such as China are not in the game because they have nothing to do with the fall of ROME. this is a Historical time period piece set around the Fall of Rome, can Buddhism be added he says. The answer is No Unless your going to make it a Fiction . and have the whole world represented at that time period. (which maybe cool but would have nothing to do with the fall of Rome.)

Any possibility of adding buddhism?

Hi! I just want to ask in which file I can find religion effects? I was looking for it in data/db/..., but cannot find it. I found buildings, but not "main religion effect". Thanks in advance :)!

I may have just got this game like a week ago, but I was under the impression that changing religions changes what your soldiers say (chants, warcries, etc.) on the battlefield. Long story short, could this mod be the reason that my somewhat newly converted roman-pagans still shout "Soldiers of Christ, Attack!"? It's making me too nostalgic for when that made sense.

For Age of Charlemagne maybe the Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms should have a certain percentage of their population believing in Germanic Paganism - this is attested through Anglo-Saxon law codes that specifically ban the worship of trees and stone circles, suggesting that Anglo-Saxon peasants still clung to their pre-christian Germanic Pagan beliefs to at least a small amount. Furthermore Anglo-Saxon charms mention Woden (Odin)

a subtle and must have mod for my late game for sure. thank you!

Are there any mods (bar probably religion based mods) that are not compatible with this mod? (like overhaul mods such as Radious or Fall of The Eagles)

@Jalowcowy Demon: Nope, no changes to the startpos.esf file.

Fair enough. One more question: does this mod change startpos.esf file?

@Jalowcowy Demon: When I made the change to Slavic Paganism it occured to me that it would change the way the Slavic factions were played and I concluded that the change would actually encourage playing the Slavs in a more historically way. Right now the strategy for the Slavs seems to involve sitting around in what is today Russia immune to the impending ice age and occasionally sending off armies to colonize things obliterated by the Huns until you can build a fancy temple and win. If the Slavic player really has to be concerned about their people starving in the frozen wasteland of 5th century A.D Russia, then he or she is much more likely to do what the real Slavs did and move South and West. As a matter of fact our current linguistic model for the migration of the Slavic peoples has all of them moving West in this period and Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine only being recolonized by Slavic speakers in around the 7th century A.D.

@HastusPrior: I should also probably point out that your statement about other religions not having to pay anything is only sort of true. Most other religious buildings don't cost money but they do cost a lot food. If I take my previous example and apply it to Roman Paganism the six provinces worth of temples will be producing -900 food and counter acting that mean building at least six fully upgraded farms, each of which would generate -5 sanitation, and counteracting that would mean building six sanitation buildings with the net result being that maintaining the temples would cost you twelve building slots and around 1800 solidi per turn. Considering that a single building slot can generate up to 2000 solidi per turn I don't think that the Christian's monetary upkeep actually look that bad by comparison.

@HastatusPrior: I don't really know what to think about the upkeep cost on Christian churches. I went thru and checked a bunch of different buildings types and only a couple of military recruitment buildings for the Roman and Eastern factions came even close to costing as much upkeep as a level IV monastery or cathedral. To put it another way I calculated that if you had six provinces each with a fully upgraded church in it and three full size armies of medium quality infantry, your military and ecclesiastical expenditures would both be about 9000 solidi per turn, whether you think that figure reasonable or absurd I don't know.

Religious Studies FTW

Great mod, but there's one technical problem - you made slavs unplayable the way they are meant to be played by taking fertility bonus form temples. Could you possibly add a new slav culture trait like immunity to climat changes?

How about adjusting the upkeep of Christian religious buildings? I find vanilla costs exorbitant. In my own version of your mod, upkeep is 5% of construction cost (= 20% on a yearly basis). That's still comparatively huge (all others, Sassanids included, pay nought) but not totally crazy, maybe.

@Driver Nephi: Well I was completly sure that the Creative Assembly didn't intend to have "Eastern Christianity" represent both Miaphysites and Nestorians... until you brought up the Lakhmids, who were, indeed, Nestorian. So apparently I was wrong and it is perfectly correct to use "Eastern Christianity" to represent Nestorians and Miaphysites, even though those sects are ideological opposites, and all of the in game buildings are Ethiopian, and it just occured to me that this whole situation means that Attila's Catholic vs Orthodox split makes even less sense than I thought it did... Anyway, based on the above I have now added the last few changes you brought up. Thanks for the suggestions and I guess I can add a Merry ideologically-fractured-and-theologically-controversial Christmas to anyone reading this in the next few days.

A small thing I forgot to mention is that there should be 1 Jewish tradition in Macedonia to represent the Jewish minority in Antique and Medieval Greece, which was established well before the game even began
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romaniote_Jews#History

I would make the argument that "Eastern Christianity" in this game doesn't specifically Miaphysitism or Nestorianism, but rather both of those sects and other "Oriental" Christian sects. On the one hand, you have Aksum which would come to have Miaphysite/Coptic Christianity who are already represented in this game as Eastern Christian, yet you also have the Lakhmids represented as Eastern Christians, when the Lakhmids followed the Church of the East, which was a Nestorian Assyrian Church. So to summarize, I think Eastern Christianity already represents both of what would later develop into Miaphysitism and Nestorianism, and keep in mind that technically at the start of the game neither of these sects even technically exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_East
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakhmids

@Driver Nephi: I like most of the changes you suggested so I have added them into the mod, with two exceptions. First off, although I agree completly that their were Nestorians in the Sassanid Empire, Total War Attila does not have a separate category for Nestorians (probably due to Attila's bias against faiths that never became state-backed religions) and I don't really think using Eastern/Miaphysite Christians to represent Nestorians in the Sassanid Empire is much more historically accurate than the base game. Secondly, I am afraid that the game doesn't give you the option to remove public order penalties steming from just one relgion so I don't think your final change is possible. On the plus I have fixed the problem with Miaphysites in Egypt, which was caused by the fact that somehow the version of the mod I published didn't have that particular change, even though the copy of the mod on my computer did.

Wow u sure did a lot of Work! Thank u ! :) keep going

I have an issue where Egypt has no Eastern Christian local traditions despite Syria and Armenia getting local traditions of that religion as advertised.
Also, both Asoristan and Osroene should have Eastern Christian and Jewish local traditions. Many Jews lived throughout Mesopotamia, especially in Edessa and near Babylon, and Mesopotamia also housed the heretical (from the Roman view) Nestorian church, which the Sassanids often promoted against Roman Orthodoxy.
Libya should have some Arian local traditions due to it being the birthplace of Arius.
Thracia should have 1 Jewish tradition to represent Constantinopolitan Jews.
Also, if possible, it would be good to add a hidden effect to Latin and Greek Christianity to make them suffer no public order penalties from having the other in their regions.

Oriental Orthodoxy should have presence in Insulae Orientalis as well, due to the presence of Miaphysites on Cyprus. Theodora was a famous Cypriot Miaphysite.

@romanahellenica600: Language would indeed have probably been the single biggest difference between the Eastern and Western Churches, and indeed Empires, at the time and is perhaps the best argument to separate them in game. For some reason I cannot really claim to understand though, this just doesn't seem to have evoked that much of a sense of "other" between the Greeks and Latins in this period, although if you leap ahead in history you will certainly find some pretty intense "culturism" from Anna Kommena. Perhaps it was because the upper classes of this time were still largely bilingual in Greek and Latin, and therefore viewed themselves as one culture? Nevertheless, it is odd to think that there was so much fighting and dieing over the term "homoousian" and yet virtually none over Greek vs. Latin liturgy, you would think the difference of an entire language would be more important that that of a single word....

I loved reading your article and I'll try this mod. It's an interesting but confusing thing I've tried to tackle this in my mind - where game mechanics exist in a historical game I like to understand a logical and accurate historical reason: I believe from what I've read of Ammanius Marcelinus that there has always been a lot of racism in history, including 'culturism' whereby people hate those with different languages and beliefs. Perhaps the western Churches read their sermons in Latin, not Greek, and so the people separate based on language, rather than just disagreements on Patriarch authority

@PCMaster: It is save game compatible with the base game, although if your using a bunch of other mods you may just have to try it and see what happens.

I like you

thankyou

Is it save game compatible?

@HastatusPrior: Thanks for the advice, files have now been minimized correctly.

ill give it a try next campaign thanks

ty!

Crash on minimized DB: tables need to be renamed or the game will crash, because it entirely replaces its own files with yours, which (being minimized) lack essential info. If your file names are unique, your specific entries within each table replace the corresponding original ones, leaving the rest unaffected. Also, your mod won't clash with other campaign mods that do not alter religious aspects.

fair enough

@Eaglestrike777: Ah, now I see what you mean. I don't know why the description of the Latin Hermitage's effect does not include the words "affects all regions in this province" like other sanitation buildings, but it does say "province to each region" which is developer-speak for the same thing. I also tested it by building one in the province of Magna Graecia which has two towns with -2 sanitation and after I built the most basic monastery in the provincial capital the two towns were at +1 sanitation, which is what the value should be if the mod was working correctly.

Wonderful Work! Thank you

Ill try again to phrase it better. When I build my latin hermitage it just shows +8 is it suppose to show that its also spreading to my enitire provience? I'm thinking it didnt intsall right.

Err... I guess I am not minimizing the DB files. I don't know if this would apply to the rest of you but as soon as I tried to start or load a campaign the game crashed back to the desktop. For the moment at least I am keeping the files unminimized, although it would be really helpful if my computer at least gave me an error message of some kind to explain why it crashes when I use the optimized version of the mod....

@Kilinspecialist: I outlined my argument for keeping the division above and on a more personal level having just come out of this project I am not sure I want to launch into another one where I would have to change the local traditions, starting buildings, starting religions, and come up with a hybrid Greco-Latin Christian building line, edicts, and effects. Maybe I will consider it if I get a bunch more requests but for now I am not planning on making another version.
@Eaglestrike777: I am not sure I understand the question can you please rephrase?

My apologies for not answering sooner everyone, but I made the classic mistake of wasting time in the real world.

@HastusPrior: Fair enough about the Manichees/Gnostics and I have now minimized the DB files.
@φρουτιέρα: Good catch, I mixed up the dates for the councils of Chalcedon and Nicea but I have fixed the description now.
@Politruk: Because what I actually changed is the local traditions rather than the start position files it might take a few turns for the changes to kick in.
@phantbat: It is certainly possible to make a mod that does that, but I kind of liked the way the base game shows the religious ambigouity among the Goths by having one faction be Christian and one Pagan. Besides, if you really want to play as Arian Visigoths than all you have to do is take one of the Byzantine towns in the area they start in, settle down, change your religion, and then pack up and migrate wherever you want.

BRILLIANT! Thank you!

Interesting mod!

Does it show that sanitation is spreading in my provience because the description is game doesnt say that it does?

womman see more Islam or im not interestred... Need somone to fight.

i dont see new redistributiton of religions in campaign, still no eastern christ in egypt for example

just felt the need to mention Chalcedon was in 451 not 410. If it were in 410 it would be decades before the Council of Ephesus which it was obviously dependant on.

I really appreciate you making this mod, this has been a pet peeve of mine for a while.

Could you make a mod version that doesnt split the eastern and western christians like in FOTE btw i like your explanation but gameplay wise that last thing i need is another religion dividing up my glorius empire plus it really shouldnt be anything offiacial CA just put it in there for difficulty i think also the suggestion below me sounds great

@PiterDeVries have you/could you change the starting religion for the Visigoths to Arian Christianity?