Awesome, thank you for clarifying!

it is for some factions with specific traits: Cultural is for a whole "race" say vampires. The "normal" cultural relation could be friendly toward tomb kings but with the overides you can have one specific faction of this "race" be hostile to tomb kings instead. It could also make a faction more hostile than the base race and so on. It is also used for the "order "VS Chaos" showdown when it happens so all order factions become more inclined to ally together.

Does anyone here have an understanding of why we need a cultural overrides table? Not finding documentation anywhere for this and can't reason out why we need them when the initial table appears to have all the same values available. Just trying to figure out when these overrides come into effect. For clarity I mean
cai_personality_cultural_relations_overrides_tables ___as opposed to___ campaign_cultural_relations_tables

Yep, I noticed the ".png" effects, then you assigned then, etc.. but I do remember I tried to create one of these for Vlad and Khalida using your tables as a direct comparison, but that crashed the game. Why don't you start with Hellebron and Morathi in Warhammer 3 as a proof of concept? I bet many people would be interested in a diplomacy mod that applies affinities and animosities on a individual level. To change infinity on a global level is super easy, just one table and that's it, but you somehow figured out how to do it individually (let me guess, you took a existing trait like the affinity between Tyrion and Allariele, then you worked from there?)

it might be different for wh3 I didn't give it a try yet

here is the warhammer III port https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2872625270
but it is incomple (it is in fact missing some of the the rivalries you are reffering to)

To do this (in WH 2) you need (example of herebron)
1) creat an effect in effects_tables :
trakaan_main_diplomacy_def_herebron diplomacy.png | 0| diplomacy.png | campaign | true

2) create a "junction " with the faction in "effect_bonus_value_junctions_tables"
diplomatic_mod | trakaan_main_diplomacy_def_herebron | wh2_main_def_har_ganeth

3) assign the effect in "effec_bundles_to_effect_junctions"
wh2_dlc10_lord_trait_hef_alarielle trakaan_main_diplomacy_def_herebron faction_to_faction_own_unseen -20.0000 start_turn_completed

Waiting for a Warhammer 3 port, I miss the "rivalries"... but you know what... can you teach me how you created them? The campaign_cultural_relations_tables have some limitations, but you were able to isolate factions such as Morathi and Hellebron... So, can you teach me how you did that?

No update from now-on. TWH2 uninstalled to make space for TWH3 ;) . The mod will be ported to TWH3 IF needed and when I feel like it. Might not be before the combined, map might not be at all we will see !

Sorry but I won't make any more update to this mod since I will focus on warhammer 3 from now on. I take your remark into consideration for the futur "immortal empire" (or whatever the combined map will be named).

Can I make a request? It's possible to create a affinity between Khalida and Vlad? It seems Khalida was in love with Vlad in their living days or something like that, so in a way she would hate everything related to vampires saved by Vlad. And maybe a negative penalty between Khalida and Isabella just to spice this mexican novela a little more

Brilliant, many thanks again for this!

updated ofr the last update/dlc. Thorek is loved by Azul (perhaps a bit toomuch at the moment) ans Oxyotl Hates deeply chaos and beastmen

thx a lot for your kind words ! I haven't played the game for a while but glad to ear it still works ! To tell the truth regarding compatibility someone may have said it was incompatible a long time ago and I didn't verify if it was or not and chose the safer option ;) .

Hey! Been a long time, still using the mod, just wanted to say that it works with SFO, just clarifying it cause i saw that on the compatibility section you said it doesn't work. Thanks for updating it!

Should be updated and working ... Might have to do some modifications afer i play with/against the new factions.

the offocial one are updated but not the fan made ones which are more usefull for some features (like copy pasting from a spreadshit)

Okay that's a lot of work, didn't know it take that long or that the modding tools don't get updated at the same time. Thanks for the commitement and don't rush!

I definitly plan to update it ! But please note that it make take a week or a little more.

Let me explain : before I update it I need my modding tools to be updated (3-5 days after release most of the time) I will try to use this time to check what have changed so I can update ASAP after eveything is working. Then I need to do the update and the testing. So depending on my IRL workload and my other hobbies that's why it generally takes 5 to 15 days.

But since I want to live stream the game with my mods and the new dlc, I will try to do it as fast as possible this time ;) .

Hello! I really like this mod, may i ask if you'll find time to update it when the DLC drop? Sorry if this question/request bothers you, i'm trying to keep the game the less irritating i can with all the mods being outdated on release day.

it depends which table sfo modifies. If we both modifiy the same table then No. It could be doable with scripts but I would need to learn it (it's planed for warhmmer 3 ;) ) and even though I'm not sure it would be doable.

could this ever be compatible with sfo in the future?

I have a spreadshit with all of this but it is outdated. I intend to do a much better job of explaining my choices when I port this mod to warhammer 3 (whenever it comes out). In the lore the humans deny the existence of skavens and since they act unseen I remember having chosen to use low values - 20- 10 for humans (but they should have between -60 and -120 with dwarfs who fight them regularly). Playing as skaven it's your actions (who you fight, etc.) that will define how humans sees you. Anyway I will try to look for Ikit values and come back to you (may not be before next week as I have to update my modding tools first)

Hey! This looks interesting, currently using it for the first time. However, is there an actual changelog where i can see all the changes (or at least the major ones?).
Im currently playing with Ikit, and Empire just have a -10 Aversion towards me, which is weird considering im Skaven. Is this intended?
cheers!

Ah I see. thx for the clarification!

yup it goes like + 15 +5 0 -5 -15 -30 -50
depending on your power.
this means small factions are less likely to be attacked and big empire will clash more often.
After a few conquest + full armies you shoudl be at 0.

Great power penalties are actually positive instead of negative diplomatic relations. Is this intentional?

thanks for those links ! these mods look awesome will try them with my next campaign.

Yes... in my pov, the rivalry between the elves are far more impactful than others. Because there's a more intimate tone to it. Lizards are like a hive mind designed (literally) to fight chaos, it's not "personal", you know? Now the elves... that shit is real. And regarding values and how the campaign works with it, I not only use your tables with more extreme negative numbers, I also use this script: https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1983237410&searchtext=AI+hate set at "-120". And with this one: https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1769818450&searchtext=AI+player to make the AI engage against each other more. So, we have the desired scenario of elves vs elves, empire vs vamps and dwarfs vs orcs vs skaven all the time. The only collateral effect is how the vampires allies with orcs and skaven... it feels weird, but that's the "enemy of my enemy" effect.

Yup in the base game the "worst rvialry" is -60, I doubled it to -120 (for lizard VS chaos affilliated races) but as you say it might not be enough. I didn't want to go over -150 since it is what is used in the Vortex campaign so I knew the Ai could handle it. But I like what you say so I will do as Creative assembly did with the previous beta and make some tests with some extreme numbers on all my mods (without uploads) to see how it goes.

Talking about values, I usually change the cultural_relations to something more extreme at the negative side, lol if that's not the case, the campaign becomes a stalemate. For example, for what I considered loreful, it would be something like a ancient rivalry of this fantasy universe is the dark elves vs high elves, I gave -200 for both. Other major rivalry like dwarfs vs orcs and skaven (and all the combinations among the 3), I gave -150 for them. Other major rivalries (but not as great as these) like men vs vamps or beastmen vs wood elves, I gave them -120 and so on. The logic of the AI is to follow the "enemy of my enemy" archetype, so even if you give a -120 between the elves, they will not sustain a war forever, their common dislike of Norsca and Lizardmen can actually make them declare peace. Now if you give them -200? It's guaranteed war until they destroy themselves.

I plan to read all V7 and V8 codices again before Warhammer 3 to update all my mods now that we have so many more legendary lords.

Should be done and updated. I gave them -20 toward each other tell me if you think it should be more.

Let me know if you were able to do that. I am expecting a diplomacy penalty among Morathi and Hellebron for so long, they are supposed to hate each other (even more hatred than usual for a dark elf)

Hum... It is possible and I like it. Will try to implement this ASAP.

Hey Trak, long time no see =) can I make a suggestion? It seems you figured it out how to create traits through the effect_bundles_to_effects_junctions_tables... I tried to give a negative penalty among Morathi and Hellebron and it worked, using the morathi trait against mazda as the template. So... how about it? Can you make a trait for Hellebron, then give a negative penalty against both Morathi and Alarielle and vice-versa? The way I did it, it only works on one way, Morathi hates Hellebron, but Hellebron follows the default dark elf behavior.

The aim is to be closer to the lore (where there is almost no peace between factions) and it's not always the same campaign since the values are not "that" high. Creative assembly is definitly going down the same path for the base game. For example in warhammer 1 the aversion between dwarfs and greenskins was 40 and with the latest dlc eltharion and graum teh aversion is now at -80 (and with my mod greenskins and dwarfs are at -60). the diversified in the title was not meant as "more options" since the diplomacy is quite weak in this game but more mant as "each race are different in their way to handle diplomacy and so have different options and can not ally/be at war with all factions". Thank you for your feedback anyway I will try to take it into account when I rework this mod for warhamme 3 by thinking of another title !

actually come to think of, this mod is horribly named. You call it "diversified diplomatic relations", but by emphasizing aversion and affinity you are outright killing diplomacy diversity. You are incinerating it, shoving every campaign into the same linear diplomatic path of having the same exact friends and foes every time.

Me: tired of how strong aversion is and looking to see if its worth finding a mod to make it less annoying.
Modders: aversion is too weak, I made it stronger.
Me: psuedo-shocked. Each to their own I guess.

Thank you!

updated ! but since I don't have access to my usual modding tools I had to remove the changes to buildings and technologies for the time being. The cultural asymteric relations remains and have been updated to take into account the rising of more skavens (more factions hate them = closer to base game values)) and the fact high elves are more spread around the world (especially south of the old world.) Will update buildings and techs once my modding tools are working properly again.

Fair enough fella!

My modding tools are unabled to update for an unknown reason for the time being. I have already tried many things and even a clean install of both the game and the modding tools without sucess.... I spent 5hours on that today so I will see tomorrow if i have new ideas on how to fix it (and if it works I will update the mod asap).

Hello can you update please ^

It might still happen with the current values, espicially if they have common ennemies. As I said before I may have to update the values after I try to play a campaign with the new factions.

Huge thanks to you man, i needed this in order to not see an alliance between throgrim and Snikch, starting a game right now :)

should be updated ! I will continue testing to see if I need to change some values due to the impact of the new factions on the "south eastern" part of the world.

Cool! Thanks for the info!

I'm working on it right now so most certainly tommorow ;)

Hi, will this be updated soon?

I was just curious if this made Malekith & Tretch more likely to go to war. Tretch owning the coast often hampered the DE vs HE war in my past campaigns.