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POCUS is so responsive to the threads and comunauty feedback.
On the other hand, Paradox is not afraid to rework their games completely by changing core mechanics after lots of negative feedback and some time of reflection (goodbye, Mana...) so Imperatpr might be a much better game in a few months/years.... Or Not, if the changes fall flat but only time will tell !
Yes I do agree with you on this... but the method... the method... I dislike what they just did . I was so upset about the quality at launch after all those stream on twitch and the guy from Marketing (Rodrik?) constant blablabla and positivism... I should find for you this moment where he said : "It is the best game we did and I love it. I did play deeply CK2 but Imperator is now my favorite game" and the dev looked back and say : "Nooo really ? It cannot be..." I should have known back then lol
Paradox did really lost a lot of my trust on this. A bit like CA with Rome 2 at launch and the Attila technical mess :) It took a few years for them to regain my trust.
And I really love Stellaris :)
I would just say that Aggressors feels more like a tactical wargame build on a Civ-like traditional structure, while both those games are more "grand strategy" focused on kingdom management.
I really enjoyed Ck2 and EU4 when they launched. I think some of their DLC added cool stuff but the base vanilla game was really strong at launch.
I guess HOI4 and Stellaris were misses for me. Stellaris just not my personal favorite as I don't care for 4x games but I wanted to try it.
Hoi4 I thought was strange at launch. As it was a good polished game but I felt it completely lacked any depth and I quickly stopped playing it. I was checked out before the 1st dlc even launched.
Ck2 and euiv I lasted through multiple dlc and probably took over 2 years to just stop playing them from over use.
So much negativity around Imperator I can't even bring myself to purchase it.
It's a cool map-painter that feels somehow like a casualized version of other Paradox games, shallow at this point but entertaining if you don't take it too seriously.
There is a comparison by a chap on the Paradox forum, which pretty well aligns with my thoughts. See here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/shots-fired-by-slitherine.1201378/page-4#post-25639411
Mostly I agree with Captain's assessment, but there are a few areas I disagree:
COMBAT : Advantage EMPIRES (if using FOG II, otherwise Draw)
"In both games, combat is quite hands-off, but the option to export battles in FOG II is a strong plus for Empires. FOG II Is a gem and the best tactical simulator of ancient warfare ever made. I would however recommend to make it only for major battles, as otherwise the game would take much too long."
To me, THE way to play FoG:E is with FoG:2 for the important battles. If you do, the game is amazing. If not, then it is decent.
INTERNAL POLITICS : Advantage EMPIRE rather than IMPERATOR
"Both games rely a lot on the notion of Loyalty, but Imperator offers you some tools to manipulate the senate (for republics), making internal politics an interesting mini-game of wits."
While Imperator has more political bells and whistles, I think FoGE has much more meaningful internal management due to the decadence system. So Imperator's is more complex, FoGEs is better.
POLISH : Advantage was IMPERATOR, now EMPIRES
"Empires has been carefully beta tested and offers a much more polished experience than Imperator, which is currently a mess and under full reconstruction after a disastrous launch."
Actually, I think Imperator was pretty polished on launch... it just wasn't fun. They are now in a major redesign, to the "best" version of Imperator is now the equivalent of an early beta.
FUN FACTOR : Advantage EMPIRE rather than IMPERATOR
"That's quite subjective, but because of the characters and easier expansion, I find Imperator more fun to play, while Empires is more of a challenge and serious simulation. That's just my personal taste, however."
I very much disagree here. While I've loved other PDS games, Imperator was just a bit dull. FoGE(+FoG2) on the other hand has me more hooked than any game for a long while.
MY FINAL SCORE : EMPIRES 9 / IMPERATOR 7
I agree here. Empires is great. Imperator isn't bad, but it isn't great either, and is certainly the weakest PDS game for a long while. (I've also given Imperator a positive review, because it isn't as bad as the steam reviews suggest).
My verdict. Play FoGE+FoG2 now. Play Imperator in about 18 months once depth has been added.
AND SOME THOUGHTS
To me the big difference is that FoGE plays like a game (and a very good one), while Imperator plays like a simulation (an okay one).
In a similar way to the Europa Universalis (the first one), FoGE feel like a very complex board game. Sicily for instance has only four provinces. Mostly nations only have one or two armies, a dozen provinces. It means every decision is meaningful. "Do i take my second legion and move it north as back-up against the Celtic invasion, or do I try to quickly expel the Greeks from southern italy with it first?"
FoGE also feel MUCH fresher. Everything seem new and different. Imperator (sadly) just recycled and streamlined (simplified) mechanics from previous paradox games.... it basically suffered from some bad initial design choices to focus on multiplayer streamlining over single player depth.
I only played a bit of Agressors. I'd describe it as a "civ-like".
By contrast, FoGE feels like it deliberately looked at every mechanic that in Civ that became a strategy gaming staple and said "how can we do that differently?".
And what I've just posted comes from a guy who even bought the smartphone app because that was the only way to unlock the extra song and event in CK2.
I think the turning point for me was when they decided to put India on the map in CK2 which was something that was both unecessary and stressed the limits of their engine. Ever since the game has been "cheating" in order to keep track of all the npcs (the more people you have in your court the less kids you can get but this has become worse and the game tends to wipe NPCs into oblivion which is something you may have noticed).
Bottom line I've decided that I will only follow one of their games because it's just too expensive to keep up with more than one.
I don't like what they did as publishers with Tyranny and I have very little faith in Bloodlines 2 because of their track record. Sorry for the rant.
Considering all these points if I have to choose I will definitely be going for Empires instead.