Grim Dawn

Grim Dawn

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Vitality Casters
So... I'm planning to run a vitality caster build but I've encuntered a bit of a decision paralysis.

I'm a bit torn between Conjurer and Cabalist. I've already decided to use Occultist in the class, so at least there is that - just can't pass this Bloody Pox and Curse of Frailty.

Could someone highlight the differences between them for me? I know more or less on what skills I would have to rely: Wendigo Totem, Devouring Swarm for Shaman, and Ravenous Earth and Siphon Souls for Necro, but I'm not quite certain what the practical difference would be. You know, survivability, damage, that kind of deal.

I'm also open for suggestions if you have anything else that would fit a tanky, self-sustaining caster archetype I want to go with.
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Showing 1-15 of 22 comments
cabalist is more dmg and less piano
conjurer is more tanky and more piano
you can also make a Sentinel vitality caster, use OK just for the passives and RR, spam sigils or such
*general note would be Pox tends to fall off in the later game, dmg doesn't stack on itself and dealing 20k dmg/sec ticks isn't really much in the grand scheme of things when bosses have couple million hp.
If you're fine with that Pox is totally viable throughout and you could combine it with Necro's plague skill Ill Omen (same deal as pox, its dmg doesnt' stack on itself but spreads just like pox)
Matthew 17 Nov @ 3:27am 
Storm totem ~> vitality totems for bosses. Unlike all these other attacks (pox, sigil, swarm) you can stack multiple, and the vitality damage per skill point is going to beat all of them out.

It is a piano build, but you won't need most of it for regular enemies. And for bosses, just spam them out in rotation.

Personally, if I went necro, I'd just used a converted-to-vitality drain essence. And most of these other skills become largely irrelevant.
Originally posted by Matthew:
sigil,
sigils stack btw
Safarel 17 Nov @ 4:51am 
And moreover, you want to stack sigils as much as you can to get big damage output
Matthew 17 Nov @ 6:16am 
True, though I suppose in my mind I'm not thinking of it as a boss killer, with the default 3 second cooldown. You could turn it into a pseudo "storm totem" by extending duration and reducing cooldown.

Though by default, I'd still look toward vitality storm totems. Valguur set + Halakor stone + Decree of Malmouth. 5 totem limit, summon 2 at a time. Plus, it converts and boosts the aforementioned sigil.

You aren't going to match that unless you go drain essence.
Originally posted by Urist:
I'm also open for suggestions if you have anything else that would fit a tanky, self-sustaining caster archetype I want to go with.

Conjurer gets the big Health totals because of Shamans Brute Force and Heart of the Wild, Bloody Pox bound to Wendigo devotion gives quite strong sustain and is safe, consistent damage(not susceptible to impair aim), as well as being shockingly good at clearing. If you are doing a vitality damage occultist, whatever else you are doing I would also try to fit it in somewhere.
madrigal 17 Nov @ 1:17pm 
Originally posted by Dr.Killenstein:
Conjurer gets the big Health totals because of Shamans Brute Force and Heart of the Wild, Bloody Pox bound to Wendigo devotion gives quite strong sustain and is safe, consistent damage(not susceptible to impair aim), as well as being shockingly good at clearing. If you are doing a vitality damage occultist, whatever else you are doing I would also try to fit it in somewhere.

Woah, I just tried this on Pox and it's amazing. I always thought attack damage to health didn't work if the skill doesn't do weapon damage. I guess devotions are an exception. This game is so confusing sometimes.
Last edited by madrigal; 17 Nov @ 1:18pm
Originally posted by madrigal:
Woah, I just tried this on Pox and it's amazing. I always thought attack damage to health didn't work if the skill doesn't do weapon damage. I guess devotions are an exception. This game is so confusing sometimes.
devotion isn't the exception, look at siphon souls, devouring swarm, sigil of consumption
key is whether the lifesteal is global/"passive" added to your stats(appears in char sheet page 2); that/global lifesteal requires %WD and scales with WD amount if below 100% (max 100% effect)
if it's baked into a skill/proc, you get it "as is"/written on the label, X amount of that procs/attack's dmg (so a proc like twin fangs gives you extra lifesteal from the native+wd)
Devos without %WD just doesn't work on pseudo pets, ie Wendigo wont heal you if slapped on totems, but Bat/Twin Fangs proc will
madrigal 17 Nov @ 1:50pm 
Originally posted by gNuff!~©~gNom3™:
Originally posted by madrigal:
Woah, I just tried this on Pox and it's amazing. I always thought attack damage to health didn't work if the skill doesn't do weapon damage. I guess devotions are an exception. This game is so confusing sometimes.
devotion isn't the exception, look at siphon souls, devouring swarm, sigil of consumption
key is whether the lifesteal is global/"passive" added to your stats(appears in char sheet page 2); that/global lifesteal requires %WD and scales with WD amount if below 100% (max 100% effect)
if it's baked into a skill/proc, you get it "as is"/written on the label, X amount of that procs/attack's dmg (so a proc like twin fangs gives you extra lifesteal from the native+wd)
Devos without %WD just doesn't work on pseudo pets, ie Wendigo wont heal you if slapped on totems, but Bat/Twin Fangs proc will

That might make sense to you, but makes less than no sense to me. Game is worse than trying to learn English spelling.
i mean, if you ignore the special pet interaction (which i can't explain why is that way) it's pretty simple
global lifesteal is like any other global flat stat, requires WD
if "stuff" is baked into the skill or proc you get it as is.
Viper %rr node vs Ultos proc, same deal
siphon souls/swamr/sigils all grant you lifesteal just fine without wd too right? - it's part of the skill, so Wendigo devo is no different than that in essence.
Originally posted by madrigal:
Woah, I just tried this on Pox and it's amazing. I always thought attack damage to health didn't work if the skill doesn't do weapon damage. I guess devotions are an exception. This game is so confusing sometimes.

The thing that makes it amazing isn't even just the leech, it is the cooldown on Wendigo's Mark: There isn't any. Every time Pox ticks, on every enemy it spreads to, it has a chance of proccing the mark. In big packs of enemies you are basically un-killable as long as your Health holds out, balanced by the fact that when everything is dead there is nothing to leech from. Therefore its power drops off dramatically vs significant bosses and you can still be overwhelmed depending on how robust your defenses are. Not to mention it also requires a heavy investment of skill points/gear if you want to really get the most(a lot) out of Pox...
Urist 17 Nov @ 3:21pm 
Originally posted by Dr.Killenstein:
The thing that makes it amazing isn't even just the leech, it is the cooldown on Wendigo's Mark: There isn't any. Every time Pox ticks, on every enemy it spreads to, it has a chance of proccing the mark. In big packs of enemies you are basically un-killable as long as your Health holds out, balanced by the fact that when everything is dead there is nothing to leech from. Therefore its power drops off dramatically vs significant bosses and you can still be overwhelmed depending on how robust your defenses are. Not to mention it also requires a heavy investment of skill points/gear if you want to really get the most(a lot) out of Pox...

I will definitely try that.

That said, I'm still thinking between necro and shaman as second mastery.
On Shaman's end there is this amazing resistance reduction from Devouring Swarm, and solid amount of sustain from Mogdrogen Pact and Wendigo Totem. I guess it would also thematically fit with the Wendigo's Mark.

On the flipside - Necro has Ravenous Earth, which is yet another decent AoE.
madrigal 17 Nov @ 6:45pm 
Originally posted by gNuff!~©~gNom3™:
i mean, if you ignore the special pet interaction (which i can't explain why is that way) it's pretty simple
global lifesteal is like any other global flat stat, requires WD
if "stuff" is baked into the skill or proc you get it as is.
Viper %rr node vs Ultos proc, same deal
siphon souls/swamr/sigils all grant you lifesteal just fine without wd too right? - it's part of the skill, so Wendigo devo is no different than that in essence.

So you're saying Wendigo devo gives you lifesteal all by itself regardless of what skill procs it as long as it's not Wendigo totem? And I don't have to use a weapon attack at all.
Last edited by madrigal; 17 Nov @ 6:49pm
Originally posted by madrigal:
So you're saying Wendigo devo gives you lifesteal all by itself regardless of what skill procs it as long as it's not Wendigo totem? And I don't have to use a weapon attack at all.
yes, the lifesteal is baked into the proc
true pets/player scaled pets wont heal heal you if assigning Wendigo devo to the pets, but it will heal you no matter which regular attack skill/spell you attach it to
Matthew 17 Nov @ 8:30pm 
Originally posted by Urist:
Ravenous Earth, which is yet another decent AoE.

True, but past act 1 normal this isn't really a concern. Everything weak around you dies from everything and the concern becomes chipping away at million hp bosses. Which is why character building is typically centered around resist reduction and high single target damage.
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