after the new versions came out killing a boss (that's a little bit skilled) is almost impossbile.
So I have some new ideas to make it fair for both sides (without nerfing the bosses that much):

1)Taunt kills should make similar damage to backstabs,except for the huntsman one

2)when a boss rage,it shouldn't remove the huntsman's taunt or atleast give the sniper 5 seconds of uber to get away.

3)Fists of steel:-60% damage taken from melee sources

4)Reput the short ciruit with the old stats

5)reput the Eureak Effect with being only able to teleport to spwan\teleport (idk)

6)Crossbow should add 25 percent for uber

7)Cleaner's Carbine shoud be disabled

8)Jarate Should remove 12-15 percent from rage

9)Bosses can't spam super jump that fast

10)Back scatter should have 5 shots clip

I also found a cool glitch,

Having The degreaser and the reverse shooter will give unlimited crits for the reverse shooter if you change for your melee weapon and then for the reverse shooter and shoot as fast as possible

one more thing.

Telefrags should kill the boss no matter how much HP he has

I know about the degreaser / reserve glitch. Conversly, it's possible to switch from your flamethrower to your melee so fast that your melee doesn't crit. For my server I made a hotfix for that that forces melee to crit even if you don't get the crit cond.

Getting shotgun crits though is a little tricky, so I won't patch it.

Buffing taunt kills is a fine idea, but buffing telefrag or focusing on taunt kills as a "main source of damage" won't really help solve a bloated win/loss ratio against pro hales.

Fixing the old short circuit is something I really want to do, but alas iirc is impossible.

I did the fist of steel thing on my serv, but nobody really uses it over something like GRU or KGB crits.

I think 15%-20% xbow uber is enough.

Rather than removing carbine, I'd rather make it have unique attributes.

Increasing jarate's rage removal is something I tried out on my server, might push it to the public some time.

For a skilled scout, backscatter that crits instead of minicrits can be a road to very high damage.

I made a mod for eureka effect on my server that makes it cost 130 ammo to teleport, that also destroys your teleporter exit if you teleport to it. So you can't just infinitely teleport. I think it was p balanced enough.

1)Escape plan and Equalizer are replaced with the old Equalizer (fast speed + high damage on low hp)
2)Axtinguisher: +70% damage and -20% move speed
3)Persian Persuader: Hp from ammo boxes ,when you hit a boss with a charged shot you get your charge back
4) Dalokohs Bar: + 50 Hp every time you eat, maximum HP is 610, you don't get health from medics when you have more than your normal Hp (your extra Hp goes away after 45-50 sec)
6)Amputator: When you taunt you give a small amount of ammo for your near teamates (small ammo box) and even engies (+40 metal)
7)Vita-saw: Every time you taunt you get 5-10 percent for your uber

Here, it may interest you to see what changes I've tried out on my server ;p
http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/groups/tf2data/discussions/1/613940109977496748/

Gee it's like a ghost town in this discussion >.>

Before I head into weapons:

Übercharging then switching to another weapon then switching back to your Medigun won't restore the mega-heal effect from the Quick-Fix Über on yourself. Possibly a bug that Valve overlooked, but also equally possibly an intended effect.

Players who have the Conga taunt have a legitimate advantage over those without it, not so much against Hale, but rather as Hale. On maps like 2fort desk Hale is able to prematurely get off their starting platform before the round even starts. Perhaps disallowing the Conga(or its movement) until the round begins could be good.

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Vita-Saw

• -16 Max HP (Overheal only to 201HP)
  
• Begin the round with +20% Ubercharge
  
• Gain +10% Uber after an Ubercharge

Could be sort of a passive version of the Übersaw. Percentages can (and probably should) be tweaked, though I think starting with more than an extra +20% after each Ubercharge is a bit much.

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Amputator
When weapon is active:

• -20% to -40% Damage reduction
  
• +15HP regenerated per second on wearer, can overheal up to 150% max HP (Should take about 7.5 seconds to reach full overheal)
  
• On Taunt: Applies a healing effect to all nearby teammates that can overheal to 125% max HP

Again trying to keep the original theme of the weapon while buffing its gimmicks, and as before numbers can be tweaked.

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Loose Cannon

• Other stats unchanged
  
• Double Donks deal bonus damage equal to 1% of Hale's Max/Current HP, does not apply while (mini)crit boosted

I don't know how much usage the Loose Cannon gets on other servers, but I feel like the knockback alone isn't terribly strong most of the time. Since the knockback becomes stronger as you become (mini)crit boosted, having the effect not apply while boosted should provide a suitable trade-off (Also it would stop it from becoming semi-OP on servers that run full crit Demoknights). Also, if this were to be implemented it may be wise to change the sound of Market Gardens to something other than the Double-Donk sound.

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Scotsman's Skull Cutter

• Other stats unnchanged
  
• Applies an extra knockback effect on victim

This is like the Enforcer for the Demoman, simply a raw damage boost. A slight extra knockback effect could help with its lack of any other interesting stats.

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Pain Train

• Other stats unchanged
  
• 15% Melee damage vulnerability (Cannot survive a hit with the BB, or just against the Bunny without Overheal or damage reduction)
  
• On hit: Drops a small/medium ammo pack and reloads all clips (if you have the ammo for it)

There really isn't a whole lot of options for this one. If you increase its capture ability then it's still useless on maps without cap points or servers that disable the point. Other than making it an ammo variant of the Candy Cane, I can't think of anything else to give it (other than some absurd train ability (*cough*trainrain*cough*)).

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Short Circuit

• Other stats unchanged
  
• Ammo consumed on hit: 15
  
• Instead of a stun mechanic as before (people usually don't like stuns), each hit applies a small non-stacking debuff on the Hale that reduces their damage by 20% and renders them unable to get random crits for 1 second.

I don't really think there needs to be another stun mechanic in play, especially one that would be easily spammable. With this mechanic, an Engineer can protect himself, his buildings, and (most of) his team from random crits and death if they are overhealed without disabling the Hale.

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The Jag

• Removed construction rate bonus
  
• Replaced with +20%-30% build rate bonus
  
• -25% Damage penalty

Minor buff to the Jag. The construction rate bonus attribute only applies while whacking your buildings, and also only adds additively to the base increased construction rate (90% bonus while whacking with other wrenches, 120% bonus whacking with the Jag. Ergo the actual increase is only 15.79% not 30%, and only while being hit by the Jag at the same time). The build rate bonus applies even when you aren't whacking your buildings, and (as far as I know) modifies the base construction speed.

Wow, how haven't I thought of that with conga.

Quick Fix: On my server, you get the halloween 2x overheal thing instead... I'm not sure if it's canceling out megaheal or what.

Vita saw: Starting with more uber is pointless, normal medikritz starts with 42%, and all mediguns charge relatively fast imo. Especially in VSH, where you can charge it while under no danger of dying as he's distracted by 29 more players.

I thought of this once for vita-saw but didn't do it for that reason.

Amputator: That might be interesting. Gives medic his only melee combat kinda thing.

Loose cannon: It seems pointless to buff its special mechanic but only if it isn't minicritted/etc. I kinda wanted to fix minicrits/crits making the double donks not appear to happen, by making it have no crits but giving it a damage bonus equal to the 2x minicrits give.

And making the double donk do another 2x dmg, potential for 4x, but that might also be op dmg, I'm not sure.

Skullcutter: Giving demo a melee airblast is something I'd like to avoid. I was going to test code for a "charged melee attack" at some point.

Pain Train: I really just want to make it act like a stock shovel. It's not worth doing anything for.

Short circuit: The way I handle stun with short circuit is something I consider balanced, My biggest problem is the broken particle effect. Anyway, the problem with the short circuit in normal VSH is that it simply fires too fast, which broke the entire point of the weapon quite badly.

The nocrit + 161.6 dmg would be useful as a debuff..... to put on something.

Jag: yes, though I think it's more fun to increase the melee speed.

What I meant about the Quick-Fix was that the self heal doesn't come back, which means you won't have an overheal to tank a hit from Hale if you switch weapons before your Über ends.

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With the Vita-Saw, you're assuming that Hale will be distracted by by 22-30 other players. Now I don't know about you, but most of the players I've seen all seems to catch on pretty fast that Medics are a definite threat. From what I understand your stance is that it's pointless, whereas I was originally afraid it might be too overpowered. As with regular TF2, Übercharge is a mechanic that has the potential to be very powerful. Starting with that extra 20% (or more) at the start of the round for a total of 62% Über is pretty huge on the smaller maps, reducing the crossbow arrows for a full Über to 3 instead of 4 (or less if you healed people during setup). Same deal with the extra 10% uber after each ubercharge, 4 crossbow hits instead of 5 (times by 3 for the rough equivalent for syringes).
I guess the only real way to see is with playtesting, but perhaps you're right, hard to say at this point.

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My rationale behind having the 1% damage bonus not apply to crit boosted players was that you're already getting 3x regular damage on both hits if you double donk, plus crit knockback on the Loose Cannon is quite formidable. The reason behind mini-crit boosted players not receiving the bonus damage was simply because I didn't know if the game detected minicrit double donks as actual double donks, since they don't play the sound. The reason I suggested a buff at all was because compared to the other grenade launchers, the Loose Cannon doesn't match up well at all. Its gimmick to deal more damage gains you only a marginal advantage over the stock launcher, and only if you pull off consistent double donks. Even the knockback and ability to cannon jump don't really redeem it. Buffing its base damage defeats the purpose of the weapon, which is why I only changed how the double donk works.

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I agree with your point about the Skull Cutter, perhaps it would be best to simply leave it as it is, or just buff its damage boost to match the Warrior's Spirit.

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I tried

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If by 'the way I handle', you mean your discarded idea on the TF2Data VSH server, then why not adapt to the new stats instead of thinking in the past? Having it be direction based means you have to aim your stun now, and the ammo costs and stun time can simply be modified to accommodate the attack speed (by the way, can't you just lower it with stats?). Failing all else, couldn't you simply create an artificial timer on it?

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Except that increasing the attack speed does nothing to help with constructing your buildings, only upgrading them (unless that was what you were getting at). Perhaps you misunderstood, I was saying to replace the construction speed bonus with the build rate bonus attribute, not the upgrade rate bonus attribute.

Whoops I totally thought this was a post in my tf2 steam group.

Afaik, Quick Fix isn't enabled in VSH, and even with the patch that allows it, it's only a reskinned UberKritzkrieg.

Vita-saw: If you're saying he starts at 62% at the start of the round, it's a completely pointless attribute. If you're saying he starts at 62% after every time he runs out of uber, well then it is pretty OP.

I have Vaccinator enabled on my server and I eventually had to nerf the 1.5x ubercharge gain rage by a lot, I think it's down to 1.1 or 1.2 now. Or gone. Medics would be able to recharge uber again even if Hale got airblasted once or something.

I forgot to say that 1% damage is a bad idea because it's linear. Against a 35k hp Hale, you hit 350. Against a 2000 hp Hale, you hit 2... This is why I reworked the backstab formula so against a 2000 hp Hale, it hits for about 60% damage, and eventually hits back to the normal 12% damage at 30k hp.

Yeah, the other good alternative to skullcutter is to give it more damage bonus, like the Warrior Spirit. Of course, it will get the extra start health too.

In TF2Data I made the short circuit work exactly like it did in the past, including a non-directional stun. It's just missing the particle. In my server, what it also used to do, was only stun for 1.5s, and require 3s of reloading. 32 metal on use, 64 metal on miss.

I understood what you were saying. In which case what I mean is I might add both, but maybe not as much build rate since I'll also be increasing upgrade rate.

Lol, I thought as much when you mentioned the Short Circuit.

Just one more post on these suggestions to clear up stuff. (And then back to brainstorming up more original ones).

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You are correct about the Quick-Fix, however the UberKritzkrieg is actually an UberKritzkriegFix, it has the Mega-Heal from the Quickfix along with the ability to 'copy' explosive jumps from you heal target. That's why I brought up the self heal not re-applying while ubered and switching weapons.

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With the Vita-Saw, I mean it starts at 62% at the start of the round, and then 41% after every Über (liable to be tweaked). Starting with 62% at the start of the round is not what I would call pointless in many scenarios, that extra 20% could mean the difference between surving an early rage from a backstab or dying at 80% (dependant on map size and rage damage required, of course). And yes, of course starting at 62% Uber after each Ubercharge would be OP, that's why I said starting with more than +20% extra Uber after each Ubercharge would be too much. However, keep in mind that I purposely increased the HP penalty so that Medics will not be able to survive a hit from any boss except the Easter Bunny while fully overhealed, so they inherently need to keep their Uber up as much as possible while using this weapon.

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Well, as I stated in my earlier suggestions, everything is liable to be tweaked. Simply because I said the Loose Cannon should deal 1% of Hale's Current or Max HP per Double Donk in extra damage, doesn't mean that it is the only way to implement that idea. However, I will say that I had my own balancing intentions when deciding on 1% HP. I was leaning towards 1% of his current HP instead of his total HP, since with it going off total HP you would only need 100 Double Donks to kill a Hale (which is still a lot).

I don't remember uberkritz having that.

And yeah, the uber thing is pointless then. Anyone who's trying can survive spawnkilling, you just have to use your brain a little and pay attention.

1% of current hp is even worse than 1% of max hp. But the point still stands, that you're making the effect completely worthless on Hales who start with or have lower HP. I'd rather just make it a straight damage bonus.

Also it's less than 100 double donks, as there's still the damage from merely hitting him.

Well, it does. Pretty sure it's tied to the same attribute that makes you go as fast as your heal target.

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I've witnessed a few situations where having that extra Uber would've saved a Medic, but perhaps I made the weapon too niche.

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Worthless when you look at it that way I suppose. And yes, I forgot to add in the base double donk damage into that figure.

Uh no, TFCond_SpeedBuffAlly is added if you heal a target faster than you. Try healing a charging demoknight or a soldier. You won't charge with the demo and you won't be forced to jump every time the soldier rocket jumps, which the quick fix does.

It is niche, I can't think of a time where I can't get a first uber at least. Also, uber can be very underpowered depending on how smart your average players are / the metagame they have learned. On a long standing VSH server I used to frequent, it was totally useless because uber meant Hale would jump away, thus making the uber pointless when he jumps right on you after it runs out.

Actually you will, I'm witnessing this right now on a VSH server running 1.52 unmodified.
It's attribute 144 set to 2.