Melon spot....

Checked it out and I have a few suggestions/commentaries:

1. Those trees in mid need to be solid to grenades. You can throw and shoot straight through them like they aren't there. Same for the awning above the top CT door on A. It's a solid object, so it should be solid. Shooting through is fine, but it needs to be a wallbang spot at least. Throwing grenades through solid objects feels weird.

2. The surface on Long A is slippery like ice. It takes twice as long (if not more) to stop moving once you have released the key. Makes taking duels as CT unfavorable because of the innacuracy in shooting while the playermodel keeps moving, and makes quick T pushes unfavorable in the sense that they won't be able to take effective duels. I would suggest making it a different surface.

3. Why are there 2 CT doors in lower A-site? If a T-side can take the bombsite, it seems very hard to hold. 3 CT entrances and 2 T entrances to watch on a retake seem excessive, especially when the routes are all just variations coming from the same place. I would take away the side door and keep the back one. That provides awp angles onto both long and short A, and the upper area can be used as a crossfire for a re-entry. I can't think of a bombsite in CS that has 5 spread-out entrances like that.

4. The t-side can get to A-side of mid from the short A position before CTs can agress and take that area over. Is that by design? If so, the T side gains a massive advantage on mid control, while at the same time losing an access point to A. There's no point to using mid to split A if the T side can gain that control simply by going to A itself. It's just an opportunity to get picked. A mid-A split would involve T's getting through CT spawn and appearing through one of the 3 CT chokepoints on A. Another problem with those entrances. 2 CTs cannot possibly be asked to watch 5 angles while trying to defend a bombsite. With pressure and fast mid takes, a T side can bully the CTs with ruthless splits to B through short b and a through CT spawn.

5. Finally, speaking on mid: Near impossible to defend as a CT. Mid door to B takes longer to get to as a CT than it does for a T to be spotting it from mid aggression through A. The T's have a high ground to hold the reception area, and they can easily use one smoke to gain unchallenged ground through lower mid. 1-3-1 mid takes as a T side seem like an easily abusable way to run a T-side (speaking as an IGL), and there isn't a way to repeatedly challenge that control as a CT.

This map has some promise, and it does look visually appealing, but the strucutre still needs some work. Keep working at it and this could be a very good map.

-JB

Originally posted by JBGenius34:

Checked it out and I have a few suggestions/commentaries:

1. Those trees in mid need to be solid to grenades. You can throw and shoot straight through them like they aren't there. Same for the awning above the top CT door on A. It's a solid object, so it should be solid. Shooting through is fine, but it needs to be a wallbang spot at least. Throwing grenades through solid objects feels weird.

2. The surface on Long A is slippery like ice. It takes twice as long (if not more) to stop moving once you have released the key. Makes taking duels as CT unfavorable because of the innacuracy in shooting while the playermodel keeps moving, and makes quick T pushes unfavorable in the sense that they won't be able to take effective duels. I would suggest making it a different surface.

3. Why are there 2 CT doors in lower A-site? If a T-side can take the bombsite, it seems very hard to hold. 3 CT entrances and 2 T entrances to watch on a retake seem excessive, especially when the routes are all just variations coming from the same place. I would take away the side door and keep the back one. That provides awp angles onto both long and short A, and the upper area can be used as a crossfire for a re-entry. I can't think of a bombsite in CS that has 5 spread-out entrances like that.

4. The t-side can get to A-side of mid from the short A position before CTs can agress and take that area over. Is that by design? If so, the T side gains a massive advantage on mid control, while at the same time losing an access point to A. There's no point to using mid to split A if the T side can gain that control simply by going to A itself. It's just an opportunity to get picked. A mid-A split would involve T's getting through CT spawn and appearing through one of the 3 CT chokepoints on A. Another problem with those entrances. 2 CTs cannot possibly be asked to watch 5 angles while trying to defend a bombsite. With pressure and fast mid takes, a T side can bully the CTs with ruthless splits to B through short b and a through CT spawn.

5. Finally, speaking on mid: Near impossible to defend as a CT. Mid door to B takes longer to get to as a CT than it does for a T to be spotting it from mid aggression through A. The T's have a high ground to hold the reception area, and they can easily use one smoke to gain unchallenged ground through lower mid. 1-3-1 mid takes as a T side seem like an easily abusable way to run a T-side (speaking as an IGL), and there isn't a way to repeatedly challenge that control as a CT.

This map has some promise, and it does look visually appealing, but the strucutre still needs some work. Keep working at it and this could be a very good map.

-JB

1: Fixed, thanks for letting me know about that.
2: Fixed, noticed it myself, should be working correctly in next version.
3: We've playtested both with 2 entrances and without one. We feel having 2 allows for CT's to have a better chance at retaking the site which if we dont puts the T's at a larger advantage.
4: A connector was designed to function like this. Each side of mid has its own advantages and disadvantages and depending on each team. It functions a bit like any other map really, if your team loses mid, its your teams fault and the other team can choose what to do with this knowledge.
5: Hard to give a response since each team plays these areas differently. I'll look into this more.

Thanks for the suggestions! Definatly implemented some already!

Great to see about those first couple! The last few were merely observations based on the map. Keep up the good work; I'll definitely follow the map's progress

Feels a bit too large and looks too white and colorless

I think you should open skybox. There's no way to smoke mid. Ct's have a huge advantage on mid.

Originally posted by Çekirge Badi Ekrem:

I think you should open skybox. There's no way to smoke mid. Ct's have a huge advantage on mid.

if you are standing on the truck it you can trow a mid smoke.
but if the 2 windows became a long one it would be better because it would not be as hard to trow the smoke.

my suggestions :

1. the boost in middle is overpowerd because as a t your hole team can get flanked.
and you almost automatically lose the round i would remove this area or make it more easy to defend, maybe by removing the hole to B.

2. in the back of ct spawn there is a gap between the pole and the wall, there is a invisible wall
that is very confusing if you walk in to it.

3. it is hard to trow a smoke in to middle so maybe make the two windows into one or make something where you can trow a smoke trought into middle.

4. There is a chicken spot in middle behind the tree, pretty much invisible for a t.

5. The trees in the connector from A to middle also need to be solid for granades or just removed, i can see people getting flashed from a flash thats inside the tree.

6. You can run in to the electricion things, i can see this being annoying.

The map is looks great, is very optimized and works competitively, i hope valve will add this to the next operation or even the active duty map pool.I wish you very much luck as a game designer :-) .

I understand that use of the squeaky door on mid, however when the site already has 3 entrances the door becomes obsolete and honestly B site almost never worth taking because of the total disadvantage terrorist have not knowing where a lurking enemy may come from, I suggest making the door a static object and just making it so you can wall bang thru it but in exchange put a secure bomb planting location within shooting ability so that it becomes a risky plant, you can't be shot directly, but skilled players can get them regardless. To keep the realism up, just put sort of wooden boards over the door or something that makes sense being there, whatever you put there is your decision if you plan to try this idea.

1- T Side buy area needs to be bigger. Too small
2- There are some OP trees on A site that can almost hide a full player while allowing them full vision. Pictures: http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=730605334 and http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=730605212
3- Also the pathway near A site I feel needs to be possibly blocked off at some parts. I shot where I feel it should be changed/ blocked off: http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=730606040

Originally posted by AbstraktXd:

1- T Side buy area needs to be bigger. Too small
2- There are some OP trees on A site that can almost hide a full player while allowing them full vision. Pictures: http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=730605334 and http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=730605212
3- Also the pathway near A site I feel needs to be possibly blocked off at some parts. I shot where I feel it should be changed/ blocked off: http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=730606040

1- I will increase the size now. Thanks for letting me know!
2: Tree's will be adjusted as well!
3: As for number 3, its a little harder to change, we have the area open to allow T's to be able to approach the entrance from a different angle (able to see Heaven / platform) so it is unlikely I will change it.

like i promised i piled up on some things as sugestions and it ended up beeing a bit more than expected, so i made a short video going over them.

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=732113086

Maybe change some Callouts: Here are some suggestions
Ground Level ---> Break, Chill or Relax (or Radio) as it looks like a room to have a break.

Heaven ----> Balcony (it looks more like a balcony than a heaven way (compared to other maps)

A Platform -----> Heaven (This looks more like Heaven compared to other maps) and Platform might be confusing with the glass floor at A long which is also a platform

Vending ----> Short A (Long A - Short A)

Stairwell ----> Snack (self explaining)


And i also would like to see another Rock at secret to climb up into market if you have to fallback for some reason you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥!

Some visibility issues from T-balcony down into broken Doors on A

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=734953955

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=734954054

also thanks for fixing the other visibility issues!

Originally posted by Luke:

Some visibility issues from T-balcony down into broken Doors on A

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=734953955

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=734954054

also thanks for fixing the other visibility issues! :csgoanarchist:

Should be fixed![gyazo.com]

- Changed grey plaster textures to white. (Infront and behind the fence)
- Added lighting behind the fence as a extra pre-caution to make sure the CT's will be seen.

(Expect an update tomorrow)