...and MG 42.

Can't be defeated by HEAT? Sounds like the only tank u are fighting is flammpanzer 3.

Originally posted by RobZ:

Can't be defeated by HEAT? Sounds like the only tank u are fighting is flammpanzer 3.

Many german players tend to use the Flammpanzer 3 as their go to tank, just spamming it, and the Flame hetzer is pretty resistant from HEAT from the front. I would definately make these vehicles, along with any other flamethrower equipped vehicle a SP purchase, to prevent the spam.

Originally posted by Obamalini:

Originally posted by RobZ:

Can't be defeated by HEAT? Sounds like the only tank u are fighting is flammpanzer 3.

Many german players tend to use the Flammpanzer 3 as their go to tank, just spamming it, and the Flame hetzer is pretty resistant from HEAT from the front. I would definately make these vehicles, along with any other flamethrower equipped vehicle a SP purchase, to prevent the spam.

Yeah, except flame tanks and the only german option to break thought enemy lines, since they dont have, you know what, phosphore. And phosphore is much-much deadly then any flame tanks in a long run.

If you know that german player gonna use it any game, just be prepared for it, by AT gun and thats it.

They are only sometimes hard to deal with, depending on the map, when they can flame you from behind cover, but even in such cases it usually just a problem with your AT support.

Originally posted by Cultist_kun:

Originally posted by Obamalini:

Many german players tend to use the Flammpanzer 3 as their go to tank, just spamming it, and the Flame hetzer is pretty resistant from HEAT from the front. I would definately make these vehicles, along with any other flamethrower equipped vehicle a SP purchase, to prevent the spam.

Yeah, except flame tanks and the only german option to break thought enemy lines, since they dont have, you know what, phosphore. And phosphore is much-much deadly then any flame tanks in a long run.

If you know that german player gonna use it any game, just be prepared for it, by AT gun and thats it.

They are only sometimes hard to deal with, depending on the map, when they can flame you from behind cover, but even in such cases it usually just a problem with your AT support.

I get that. But there are other options that work just as good, or even better, like the Panzer 3N for making breakthroughs. There shouldn't be just one unit that everyone uses to make breakthroughs, that just makes the game stale and repetitive . But it would make perfect sense for the timer on Flammpanzer 3 to be increased, or used as a SP purchase, which makes a lot of sense to me considering SP is utilised for purchasing powerful, or otherwise unique vehicles. This would also help balance the Germans in 44/45 games, as they have to choose between buying a unit to help take a point, or wait until they can get a Veteran King Tiger, which I've observed that everyone saves for anyway rather than buy any other SP unit in its current state. This would break that dynamic and force them to choose.

Also, phosphorus isn't that good. It's quite expensive, considering that for a 120mm mortar, you can get 2 flammpanzer 3's, which also come with 2 machine guns each, and are easier to take out dug in infantry. It also isn't RNG where it lands.

And its hard to take out Flammpanzers when everyone buys the SP King Tiger and can out-range you easily, especially when you are the British or Americans, who have no effective counter. This wouldn't be the case if Flammpanzers were a SP purchase.

one ZiS-2(3) gun is enough to wreck a bunch of FlammPz III, as they don't have anything, but mg = they can't do anything, but die.

Originally posted by phil-4:

one ZiS-2(3) gun is enough to wreck a bunch of FlammPz III, as they don't have anything, but mg = they can't do anything, but die.

They can only wreck Flammpanzers in the most optimal situations, and Zis cannons cant do anything to the Flammhetzer. Besides, Flamepanzers are hilariously tanky, being able to tank shots that would otherwise cripple any other tank.

Originally posted by Obamalini:

Originally posted by phil-4:

one ZiS-2(3) gun is enough to wreck a bunch of FlammPz III, as they don't have anything, but mg = they can't do anything, but die.

They can only wreck Flammpanzers in the most optimal situations, and Zis cannons cant do anything to the Flammhetzer. Besides, Flamepanzers are hilariously tanky, being able to tank shots that would otherwise cripple any other tank.

Dunno bro, they are easiest targets. Probably they're tanky for you, because you're hitting only external armor - this always happens, when player don't know where to hit or relies too much on auto. And ZiS-3 can at least untrack Hetzer with HE shell, making it very useless and defenceless. But when such Hetzer appears usually you should have 85mm gun, which is OP.

Flame T-34 is much more dangerous - it has intact 76mm gun on fast, well protected hull. This beast can advance to your enforcements, dampening your long range weapons with main gun, and send your infantry to hell with its flamethrower. Normal T-34 has DT, which is limited with 60 shots = you can easily suppress those tanks with panzershreks, compared to flame t-34. I think this one instead must be removed and replaced with Flame T-26? Wouldn't you agree? =D

Originally posted by phil-4:

Originally posted by Obamalini:

They can only wreck Flammpanzers in the most optimal situations, and Zis cannons cant do anything to the Flammhetzer. Besides, Flamepanzers are hilariously tanky, being able to tank shots that would otherwise cripple any other tank.

Dunno bro, they are easiest targets. Probably they're tanky for you, because you're hitting only external armor - this always happens, when player don't know where to hit or relies too much on auto. And ZiS-3 can at least untrack Hetzer with HE shell, making it very useless and defenceless. But when such Hetzer appears usually you should have 85mm gun, which is OP.

Flame T-34 is much more dangerous - it has intact 76mm gun on fast, well protected hull. This beast can advance to your enforcements, dampening your long range weapons with main gun, and send your infantry to hell with its flamethrower. Normal T-34 has DT, which is limited with 60 shots = you can easily suppress those tanks with panzershreks, compared to flame t-34. I think this one instead must be removed and replaced with Flame T-26? Wouldn't you agree? =D

Detracking a Hetzer is unreliable as it is currently, using a 76.2mm cannon HE with laughable accuracy, its pretty much a null chance of detracking. A it doesn't change the fact that Flammpanzers/hetzers are dirt cheap, resist to 76.2mm especially with the smallest angle, and are among the first armoured vehicles unlocked for the Germans, about 6 minutes in, whereas a 85mm cannon is like 10 or so minutes IIRC. Far too many times have I seen people just buy flame tank after flame tank. And the Soviet OT-34 is not nearly as dangerous. No protection from HEAT, extremely easy to destroy with a Panzer 3N, or Panzershreck. The same cannot be said for the German variations.

http://prntscr.com/r3u6ho

Originally posted by Obamalini:

But the nature of flametanks would make it a very, very bad investment for SP. If you made them only SP, no one would buy it, theyd most likely rather save for Panthers/Pershings/Tigers or any vehicle that isnt limited to 75 range and way better suvivability.

how does it feel ♥♥♥♥♥♥

Originally posted by Jared:

There were less than 50 flammpanzers 38t, 100 flammpanzer iii M, made yet I find a flame hetzer being used pretty much every game multiple times per game.
1500 OT-34s produced, 69 KV-8s.
800 crocodile churchills
There were four Sherman crocodiles, cant find numbers on zippos.

Germany should have a 4 point Flammpanzer iii M and 5 point Flammpanzer 38t and no option to buy them with MP.
US should retain the 4 special point Croc and remove the ability to buy with MP.
Russia should have the option to buy OT-34s with regular points, and the KV-8 with 5 special points.

here is your ♥♥♥♥♥♥ medicine, ♥♥♥♥♥♥

Originally posted by Jared:

Originally posted by Jared:

There were less than 50 flammpanzers 38t, 100 flammpanzer iii M, made yet I find a flame hetzer being used pretty much every game multiple times per game.
1500 OT-34s produced, 69 KV-8s.
800 crocodile churchills
There were four Sherman crocodiles, cant find numbers on zippos.

Germany should have a 4 point Flammpanzer iii M and 5 point Flammpanzer 38t and no option to buy them with MP.
US should retain the 4 special point Croc and remove the ability to buy with MP.
Russia should have the option to buy OT-34s with regular points, and the KV-8 with 5 special points.

here is your ♥♥♥♥♥♥ medicine, ♥♥♥♥♥♥

lol, I thought about it some more. It's more than a fair assesment on your end. My bad. Especially since RobZ added the SP variations of the King Tiger.