No arty is an arbitrary unbalanced setting, which doesnt even work right.

I can get m8, arty mode shermans, 6 sp mortar call in and sit behind hill indirect pounding frontline and beyond for whole game thus denying proper infantry use and static weapons, while my opponents cant even get a similar counter unless they are playing certain factions which still have some indirect fire. So to counter all that stuff the opponent has to put in more risk and micro compared to what i am doing - just abusing a broken host setting and sitting behind a hill.

Abusing settings and stacking teams doesnt make one a "pro" player, whats the point in using no arty setting and going straight for "arty" that isnt locked by it?

Originally posted by Romich:

No arty is an arbitrary unbalanced setting, which doesnt even work right.

I can get m8, arty mode shermans, 6 sp mortar call in and sit behind hill indirect pounding frontline and beyond for whole game thus denying proper infantry use and static weapons, while my opponents cant even get a similar counter unless they are playing certain factions which still have some indirect fire. So to counter all that stuff the opponent has to put in more risk and micro compared to what i am doing - just abusing a broken host setting and sitting behind a hill.

Abusing settings and stacking teams doesnt make one a "pro" player, whats the point in using no arty setting and going straight for "arty" that isnt locked by it?

So first of all , for me i am not the fan to do the indirect mode sherman or get mortars in no arty mode ,so that is not for me i guess . (Like i said M8 is not invincible)

Second, I absolutely don't agree you said : "broken setting " and "behind a hill', because all what am i wrote is telling people do not let his mind go wrong ,find the way some how ,not just straight into complaining mode cause they only take few loses but still can fight back .
every faction has his advantage and disadvantage at the same time have or haven't arty/mortars won't change a lot .

Third , i always tell the players say: use what you able to use ,because once they spend time and MP/SP on arty they weaked his frontline at the same time , sure they can use WP shalls on my infantry but it does properly/enough damage and not being the target while frontline is weaked every single time ?

I know M8 is an howitzer but can players pretend it's not an arty ? And use it fairly ?

Artys is only support weapons the main reason to win a game still depend on infantry ,AT gun , and tanks isn't it ? .

Btw ,in fact even setting in arty mode on won't change the fact that SP M8 prior to other factions spend 320~380MP to get a same range, effect gun .

In normal mode they at least can get a counter, in no arty, m8 in regular direct firing mode can still fire over hills as due to its ballistics the shell goes in an arc, thus it cant be targeted by something like pak 40 which has more range, because m8 is behind cover and germs cant buy m8's counterpart - leig since it is removed by the gamemode. Getting a pz3n with basically same gun isnt an asnwer because m8 counters it too due to tank being a bigger - easier target.

Tell how this setting isnt broken when some factions get tools that were supposed to be removed and others dont?

Well you got the point , let me explain

1. Ballistic ? How much angle do M8 can/can't shoot through ?
Behind cover ? These covers must be about one sandbag's height ,more than this is not beable to go through .

2. Pz IV f 1 , Pz III N or 7.5cm le.lg, mountain gun etc : during two units have same range , both units who hits/disable the opponent's unit first wins , there's no debate ,right ?

3. HEAT shalls from M8 : it's basically bazooka but more range , if the tank is not vertically face the M8 then HEAT shall will high opportunity invalid .

For example : the Soviet T 34 with his tilt angle armor , if you want to penetrate with HEAT ,you must hit exactly on the weak spot or turret .

Secondly , although the M8 is smaller target then the tanks ,but does M8 lands his shall right on the target every single time ?

Paks etc : like i said only take both of gunners down , and then rush the infantry also maybe tanks to destory it, no need to take risk made the paks destoryed by M8 in range .

Oh forgot to say : if someone putting a year with no arty/mortars ,then it's really broken ,if he put on All with no arty/mortars then it's okay

Originally posted by Self-propelled_poop:

Well you got the point , let me explain

1. Ballistic ? How much angle do M8 can/can't shoot through ?
Behind cover ? These covers must be about one sandbag's height ,more than this is not beable to go through .

2. Pz IV f 1 , Pz III N or 7.5cm le.lg, mountain gun etc : during two units have same range , both units who hits/disable the opponent's unit first wins , there's no debate ,right ?

3. HEAT shalls from M8 : it's basically bazooka but more range , if the tank is not vertically face the M8 then HEAT shall will high opportunity invalid .

For example : the Soviet T 34 with his tilt angle armor , if you want to penetrate with HEAT ,you must hit exactly on the weak spot or turret .

Secondly , although the M8 is smaller target then the tanks ,but does M8 lands his shall right on the target every single time ?

1) Depends on the map, on certain ones it can be unreachable by any other unit with these settings.

2) Leig is disabled in this mode, pz3n is vulnerable to m8 more than m8 is vulnerable to pzn due to size difference and pz3n is vulnerable to anything else - at guns, other tanks, while he is trying to counter a unit that is not supposed to be enabled.

3) You can pen t34s hull with m8s heat, anyway turret is big enough target on t34s to hit it realiably.

M8 unlike most tanks can hide behind cover, even if it missess, they cant fight back because indirect weapons of their faction are disabled.

Originally posted by Self-propelled_poop:

Paks etc : like i said only take both of gunners down , and then rush the infantry also maybe tanks to destory it, no need to take risk made the paks destoryed by M8 in range .

Doesnt work when they are behind cover, if you manage to decrew it, they can recrew it in few seconds and retreat it, rushing inf 180m towards m8, considering m8 is an sp unit they will have a plenty of units to defend, same if you try to flank with tanks.
Anyway you are suggesting to get a pak + inf + tanks to push a single unit thats not even that expensive and after this you say that this setting isnt broken?

Originally posted by Self-propelled_poop:

Oh forgot to say : if someone putting a year with no arty/mortars ,then it's really broken ,if he put on All with no arty/mortars then it's okay

Even though "all" units is a more fair setting for allies, this doesnt make no arty and no mortar setting less broken and unbalanced.

So you means M8 in the no arty mode is invincible ?

Originally posted by Romich:

M8 unlike most tanks can hide behind cover, even if it missess, they cant fight back because indirect weapons of their faction are disabled.

1. can hide, true , but means low mobility ,no target in front of / within range means that need to pull off from the cover to find new targets .

2. You lost a really important point , the PZs can suddenly show up fire once and reverse with his mobility .

3. And you said like M8 is 100% accuracy / penetrate chance / etc , which means little biased .

4.So Pzs can't find a cover to hide ? and Pzs isn't an indirect weapons too ? (meaning PZ III N and IV F1) curved shot weapons doesn't same have trajectory ?

So far, we are only talking about early game , How about German StuH 42 /STU33B / brummbar , Soviet KV 2 Commonwealth Cromwell / Churchill with 95mm howitzer , Japan Chi-ha 120 ?

These weapons is more range / powerful then the M8 (and not disabled from no arty mode) , and these units also able to hide behind cover also can suddenly show up ,fire once and reverse with his mobility , what do you think ?

Originally posted by Romich:

Doesnt work when they are behind cover, if you manage to decrew it, they can recrew it in few seconds and retreat it, rushing inf 180m towards m8, considering m8 is an sp unit they will have a plenty of units to defend, same if you try to flank with tanks.
Anyway you are suggesting to get a pak + inf + tanks to push a single unit thats not even that expensive and after this you say that this setting isnt broken?

1. SP is limited on 20 , they can't spam all of the SP on it .

2.You got the point again "retreat it" , when M8 is leaving the front temporary ,our front can pushing to gain more ground to compressing the opponent lines ?

3."you are suggesting to get a pak + inf + tanks to push a single unit thats not even that expensive" Mass destruction (MGs, AT guns etc) include M8 i suppose to say , means i have prepared to took all his units by the operation / plan / strategy / tactical .

4.Sorry , what i suppose / meaning /think to say is : M8 can't be always sitting on the ground forever ,it always have solution to solve the puzzle even without the howitzers/mortars.

5. Broken or not is depend on Robz himself , have you ever think why didn't removed no arty/mortars mode from the mod ? (also the M8) (except the poor PC users)

Originally posted by RobZ:

IF IT CRASHES WHEN YOU ACTIVATE, DISABLE ALL OTHER MODS
This mod includes gore-mod, using gore mod seperately can cause issues.
Play with a year-setting in multiplayer for the best balanced experience. (1944 and 1945 beeing closest to "all" units)

If you observed this you will see Robz removed a paragraph : "No arty/mortars is totally unbalanced ...etc" from the front / index page of the mod.

Originally posted by Self-propelled_poop:

You lost a really important point , the PZs can suddenly show up fire once and reverse with his mobility .

Engine sound can be heard through fog of war, this wont work if player is paying attention, unless you happen to hit with 1st shot and/or enemy happened to miss, besides tanks in robz are too slow further reducing chance of getting away.

Originally posted by Self-propelled_poop:

3. And you said like M8 is 100% accuracy / penetrate chance / etc , which means little biased .

I didnt say that, but given that it has no direct counter in no arty setting and terrain slopes, it will destroy whatever it can sooner or later.

Originally posted by Self-propelled_poop:

So far, we are only talking about early game , How about German StuH 42 /STU33B / brummbar , Soviet KV 2 Commonwealth Cromwell / Churchill with 95mm howitzer , Japan Chi-ha 120 ?

Those units are made stronger by lack of arty in this setting, especially if terrain lets you completely hide them. Also shermans and some other tanks still get arty mode.

Originally posted by Self-propelled_poop:

4.Sorry , what i suppose / meaning /think to say is : M8 can't be always sitting on the ground forever ,it always have solution to solve the puzzle even without the howitzers/mortars.

Ok, we can play few 1v1 matches with this setting, i will be usa and you will be regular or ss germany, i will abuse m8.

Originally posted by Self-propelled_poop:

5. Broken or not is depend on Robz himself , have you ever think why didn't removed no arty/mortars mode from the mod ? (also the M8) (except the poor PC users)

Guess for same reasons as to why he didnt remove broken gamemode like combat, anyway this setting still has same issues with arty/indirect units available since it was introduced, even new ostfront faction has werfer 42 for sp in this mode.

Originally posted by Self-propelled_poop:

If you observed this you will see Robz removed a paragraph : "No arty/mortars is totally unbalanced ...etc" from the front / index page of the mod

That message is still there in mod description when you launch it from mod menu.

Man , i didn't say about arty mode in sherman , i know it's broken but you don't have to make them broken , right ?

Yeah sure ,we can do couple test round to see the chances, but seems like we are in the different time zones which means totlally can not meet :/ .