Lords of Xulima

Lords of Xulima

Deepest Dark
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Gleir 30 Aug, 2021 @ 9:19am
Wish to create a new LOX mod, merged with Deepest Dark.
Hey Celerity, amateur mod author here. I loved LOX, thought it had its flaws; Deepest Dark fixed the major one of that: difficulty. The game becomes too much of a chore after early game, and Deepest Dark is probably the only mod I've seen that tries to do it in an enjoyable way (unlike say, for example, disabling learning and fixing KoH at level 1).

The mod still has its issues tho, the biggest one I'd say is the early game, its so hardcore that many enthusiasts would be turned off by the prospect of ploughing through that stage; also, I didn't agree with some places you didn't make changes, like how Disciple and Prophet gear was still mandatory for every character and took away choices; or how certain enchantments were super powerful but super cheap (5-10 damage scaling to 20-40; for 0.4 base level increase). I also disagreed with some of the spell changes; you made AOE available way too early, coupled with the fact that lategame spells were massively buffed, especially Comet Shower; a mage stocked with Mana Pots (200 mana) can maintain a DPS of 600 (assuming 2 pots consumed every 3 rounds), before resistances taken into account (burst of 1800), inflicting a reasonable amount of CC in the process. Also, it caused conflict; would you cast the T2 AOE spell that harms 5 enemies moderately, or the T3 damage spell that massively harms 1 enemy and moderately harms 3 more? Most of the time, it'd be the latter, given the importance of focus fire, unless you're using 3+ mages; and this kinda put those T2 spells in a niche spot: they're good for trash fights, but in any serious ones you're better off with T3, whether its single-target boss, or multiple (~3) strong foes.

The other changes I made are mostly immersion changes. I reworked most equipment, now every equipment type serves an unique role and doesn't go obsolete (Battle Hammer vs Flail for example: Battlehammers have high damage and stun; but Flails can both stun and wound, but less than both Battleaxes and Battlehammers). I reworked enchantments; now Armors hold protection, weight, evasion and resistance enchantments primarily, while Trinkets hold everything else, like Stat boosts and +XP. +XP were massively nerfed to 2% base, and now you can max have 4 +XP gear per person, so XP bloat is partially eliminated. I added artifact-tier weapons; in place of slayer weapons; they still have the slayer property, but have other powerful bonuses on top of that. Such gear are really rare and really expensive (+3 base level). Tomb of Kings give +5Lvl Weapons (the Indaris Mausoleum can give you a 12+ star weapon); but not armor or other things; making those mausoleums truly rewarding to find and open. Classes were massively rebalanced, particularly the Divine Summoner, which might be a bit too op now, requires playtesting to find out. Item Qualities renamed, because its really weird to read about Diamond Sheet Leather Armor. Wood now use actual wood from T1-8, scaling with Janka hardness, then magical metal, because magical metal can be used as wood, leather or metal cuz magic. Jewelry also use actual gems later on, instead of metals. Prices altered, because it makes no sense that a cloak is more expensive than a longsword, as well as actual rings and necklaces. All in a balanced way, of course, as much as I can.

Fixed difficulty levels too, now people can actually play on other difficulties if they don't want to try Hardcore Ironman; however, your mod mentions you made changes that might break other difficulties, so you intentionally broke them, so this needs clarification to go through. Made a lot of little QOL changes here, like making inns really cheap (32g full rest Hardcore); so to do a food loop now all you need to do is rest twice and collect cereal and get +36G profit. The reason for that is equipment: Since equipment generation is random, and certain equipment really make early game easy (+PP gear for PP trick, saving money on blessings); and some people would want to gear up fully on +XP gear despite nerfs; 2 Nights rest restocks vendor equipment, 7 Nights refreshes inventory, so you can do food loops to rest for free, and even make gold in the process (relevant early, if you want to make early game even easier). Lore immersive too, because this is the equivalent of finding work in town while you mingle and gather information in the new land you've just arrived at. Since inn resting is really cheap now, no reason to make the game arbitrarily difficult with the food mechanic; its still relevant in the desert, but food is a big annoyance in the game even with berry bush free food; wasting a lot of time, so nerfing food costs goes a long way making the game more accessible. Min-maxers don't buy food anyways, so its just to help newbies. Another lore immersive change is preventing massive inflation while levelling: at level 30 inn resting would cost significantly more than at 1, why? These just punish players for using in-game mechanics (buying food, inn resting, curing curses, buying lockpicks); inflation isn't completely gone; just mostly non-existent for the less important stuff; but buying lots of lockpicks is still going to cause their price to rise a lot.

Didn't change enemies, enemy skills, enemy locations, missions at all. You did a really good job on those, and changing those are really time consuming and require extensive playtesting, time I don't have. This is mostly a hobby. Now, I could have completely messed up balance, made the game too easy and whatnot, so all I need now is an audience for feedback. So anyways, this is a formal request asking permission to post my mod (tentative name: Deepest Dark: Rebalanced), which is built upon your mod, giving credits where due.
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Celerity, Executor of Impunity  [developer] 12 Apr, 2022 @ 3:10pm 
Now, this is real curious.

Let's start at the beginning. I was under the impression that anyone using this mod tool has a secure mod, and absolutely no one except for the mod creator and the developers could make alterations. Yet, you repeatedly speak of these changes as though they've already been made without my contact or permission (which yes, I wasn't giving a damn about video games for a few years, but even so the only reason I made this in the first place is because I believed that my work was mine and it seems that was entirely incorrect). This is problem enough in and of itself.

Then we see these changes themselves and... why even have a difficulty mod at that point? Any one of those, much less all of them would make it a complete joke.

Every test run I did, and there were six or seven of them were done in the following ways:

No XP gimping. One XP item might land on a character by chance, but if I have something better (better = resistance/stat boosting) then I use it.

Lowest day count, which means:

No farming shops.
No spamming rest (actually zero using the rest command under any circumstance).
High efficiency oriented pathing.

No class stacking (except the third run that stacked Paladins and was actually the weakest).

So this notion that various things that I will collectively describe as "Gimpa style" are required when I literally never used any of them and in some cases deliberately implemented very heavy handed hard counters on purpose is laughable and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

The bits about the food and the inn are an especially interesting case is because what would happen is noobs would spam rest and spam abilities and that'd get them through encounters until it didn't anymore. They would then go full PBKAC and blame me or the mod or anything but themselves when the fact of the matter is they didn't learn the most basic of mechanics while they had the chance, so once their noob trick quit working they had nothing and by then they were 20 hours in (longer if they are doing it Gimpa style). The heavy handed move makes it clear for even the dimmest among them that perhaps this incredibly boring and tedious way of doing things is not the correct one (that and getting dogs about twice per area instead of twice per three encounters). Resource management is intended. Deal with it.

This also explains a lot of the weird feedback like mage spamming is mandatory (I might have had one mage in one test run, I might not have ever used the class at all). I don't remember which, but either way the class is trash in vanilla and I wouldn't use it and even with all the buffs (and keep in mind, the highest level spells are the only advantage Mage has) I am still uncertain of its usefulness (Bards are highest DPS in the game vs trash and it isn't even a contest, Mages hit bosses like Barbarians, except they spend 20x the mana in the process). Granted, Barbarian is the only class that matches Arcane Soldier damage, but both Barbarian and AS can swing more than 3-4 times before running out. Mage can't.

Oh and selecting any difficulty lower than Hardcore massively nerfs enemy stats (even if it shouldn't). As in "You will slaughter absolutely everything except a few select bosses before it takes an action" levels of nerf. I believed that people could follow basic instructions and respect obvious design intent, but they couldn't, and I found out the hard way I was getting "testing feedback" from someone who was basically playing Casual difficulty but with the buffed skills. Note: Early game DD is already easier than vanilla with the exception of named encounters and boss fights because of the skill buffs. And of course no Ironman means save scumming absolutely everything instead of only some things. Which means not learning from mistakes and not Gitting Gud.

One other thing. The elemental enchantments kind of suck. A pure physical attacker would do more damage with a different property, a secondary attacker will get the extra damage resisted constantly by enemy defense. That's with the buff, which was 5x I think? If there is any property that is mandatory, it's the one that boosts initiative and is named the same as the creator for no reason at all. Even then though, no shop farming so it wasn't as if I went through with optimal equipment.
Last edited by Celerity, Executor of Impunity; 12 Apr, 2022 @ 3:10pm
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