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To be specific, I think you make some wrong or at least extremely uncharitable conclusions about the characters is E4 and E2. For example, you say that in E4 Olivia doesn't deserve what she gets, I disagree.
Olivia doesn't immediately take responsibility for the swapped painting, however, she does pay for hiding it. Although Olivia faces no formal consequences for the swap, she gets punished in a worse way than any school or arts magazine could have done. She gets blackmailed by Mia and works hard enough that she injures her hand.
Something that people often overlook is that Olivia shields Inco from the consequences of the swap and tries to keep him from getting involved with Mia. Instead of letting other people pick up the slack like she is used to doing, she tries to solve it herself for once. Olivia doesn't make Inco part of it, it’s Inco who inserts himself back into the situation. I think that is a very important point.
This is where she takes accountability, but she fails to do it alone. And when it gets hard, she shuts herself off from the rest of the world, a recurrent theme throughout the game. Her refusal to accept help with art is in principle, but I think it’s something she feels similarly about in general out of aversion to accepting help. This is where I think the critique comes from, because Olivia doesn't solve anything on her own she’s not taking full responsibility, but I would argue that this strengthens the themes of the game. Because her arc is not just about taking responsibility but also about facing her self-defeating stance about accepting help too.
If Inco hadn't intervened, she would have kept going through the last semester like this, suffering and growing bitter about it. By keeping Inco from harm, she took responsibility but that isn’t enough because that's not her only problem, and her solution ultimately hurts her. Instead of closing herself off, the silent shut-in accepts help and learns how to trust someone who has earned it. This is the struggle she overcomes, and that is her victory.
I think Iadakan was fairly careful with her to not push her too hard. Because he was so lenient, he ends up doing something drastic at the end. He is willing to do anything to change the course of his student’s future, even something morally bad. It’s not justified, but it’s human. He destroys the art of former students, and he doesn't care who gets blamed. Iadakan shows that he doesn't actually care about art pieces themselves as much as he cares about the craft and people behind the process. That is why smashing them isn’t a big deal to him, because he believes that nobody will care. In his defense, he doesn't do that much more damage than Mia had already done.
I don’t see how he values Olivia’s art more than the others, he smashed her best paintings too. It’s a selfless act because in that moment he cares more about her than himself.
He destroyed the painting to get rid of the anchor around her leg that’s been keeping her down. What she does afterwards is up to her, but he gave her a chance. He destroyed the paintings so that she can go into the future without baggage. As much as he did it for her, he also did it for himself, a last attempt to do something that mattered to him, to help his student.
I don’t like how Ben is handled either, but I think Mia is the bigger problem. Throughout the game Ben is very manipulative and almost as bad as Mia, but we’re supposed to just accept that he’s a changed man. It’s hard to believe that Ben didn’t have a hand in what Mia did over the game. He is probably the reason why Mia knows about the painting swap in the first place, and if he told her, he told her on purpose. However, we see Ben trying to make amends in multiple endings, such as in E3 and E4, so I don’t know why you think Ben didn’t earn at least a little bit of a win. In E3 he tries to help Olivia the best way he knows, and in E4 he tries to make up for his past by telling Mia to back off from revealing the painting swap in the Scaler scene, which is also the reason why Mia lashes back.
I think Ben’s redemption would work better if Mia got one too, because it would highlight his flaws more.
I think you're being uncharitable here. It’s life advice that Iadakan had forgotten and that a teenager made him remember. It also gives Inco insight into why Iadakan and Olivia are so close.
It would have been interesting to see her struggle with getting better at art as part of the process, but the whole story would have to be rewritten around it.
Moving on from E4, I also think it’s worth discussing E2 and how you interpret it in your mod Movie Night With Mia. In it you take a very Inco slanted view, but I don’t think it’s fully warranted for E2 Inco.
By portraying Inco as the victim, I think you lose some of the complexity that makes E2 so good. In E2 both Olivia and Inco are at fault for what happens at the formal. I don't think Inco deserves that much pity for what happened, because Inco is constantly lying to Olivia and himself. Inco can’t get better by just moving on from Olivia to Mia. Olivia isn’t keeping Inco back, it’s Inco that’s keeping Inco back. Jumping ship to Mia is just going to be E2 epilogue all over again, but with Mia.
He rarely expresses his real thoughts or feelings, instead he says whatever he thinks Olivia will like. This dishonesty by omission is a part of every interaction they have. Inco enables Olivia’s worst tendencies just so that he can be with her. He doesn't think about anything other than himself or how to make Olivia like him. After Olivia's tantrum, he isn't concerned about what she said at the formal, he only cares about how it's going to make him look. Caring about yourself isn't wrong, but he egged her on to give the speech without actually being interested. Inco didn't care what she was going to say, he mindlessly puffed her up because that's what he thinks he is supposed to do. When it went bad, he showed what he really only cares about himself. Inco isn't blameless for what happened, and Olivia is right to be mad at him for that.
Connecting this to Movie Night With Mia, Inco and Mia are in the wrong and need to accept some kind of responsibility, but by the end both are deflecting blame onto others. It's easy to sympathize with Inco since he wasn't being malicious, but pointing fingers at everyone else makes him unlikable because he put himself into this situation.
Even though I like Mia in your mod and I think you make some good points, it's a little rich that all the critique of the rest of the characters is coming from her, considering what she did to Olivia.
At one point Inco admits that Iadakan destroyed the display case, and he tries to justify himself instead of defending Iadakan or explaining why it happened. This came across to me like a betrayal of Iadakan, making Inco unlikable. You make several points about how Mia is justified for disliking Iadakan, but that doesn't negate what Iadakan was to Inco and Olivia. And that Mia did something a lot worse to Inco and Olivia.
All of these points highlight my problem with a Mia romance in general. What Mia does in the story is so reprehensible, that any justification just comes off as simping. I think there is potential here with Mia, just not as a romance story.
I want to address all of these point by point but can't for now. Need to keep my head clear while I'm on the homestretch for finishing the mod. Ending 2 of 4 is done and 3 of 4 is most of the way done. Also have to finish rewriting most of the first chapter after Sebek convinced me to rework it. And then that will require rewriting parts of the story to fit with it. I'm hoping to have all that done within the next week. Then all that'll be left is asset creation.
If anyone thinks I am wrong or missing the mark, please don't hesitate to let me know. Though for now, this is the mindset I want to keep for the narrative I'm nearly done with, for better or worse.
Mate take a breather. Its a random emoji thing on like a month old comment I gander the fella who left that is long since gone by this point. And 1 random emoji ain't gonna sink the entire Wani community.
Being the internet their is always gonna be at least one guy like that who is just unproductive or trolling. And having a major blowout just feeds those kinda types and attracts more usually just best to ignore em and carry on.
Eh, I don't see how that's worse than her name being tarnished should her misdeeds come to light. Injuries heal. And the fact is, Mia is characterized as an irredeemable bully who eventually gets her comeuppance, thus canceling out any karmic retribution Olivia receives. Maybe if it was a permanent injury then it would have more significance.
No, she repeats the same mistake as before which is purposefully keeping him in the dark and then hoping the problem fixes itself. I do agree that Inco taking the initiative and getting involved of his own volition is an important point in his development, and is one of the few instances where he directly impacts the story rather than being a passive actor. That doesn't change the fact Olivia herself is still being irresponsible and not respecting Inco enough to tell him of impending danger, which is a theme with her. She's short-sighted and doesn't think ahead, always wanting instant gratification.
That's a good point and it's certainly in keeping with the themes of the game. My biggest gripe is that Iadakan is aware this is all happening and was most likely aware of her initial subterfuge and he just stands by and does nothing, which kinda of reinforces Olivia's own attitude. I know the idea is that he's hoping she'll come forward on her own to take responsibility but in both instances she acts too late, and he's just willing to let Inco take the brunt of her inaction, which makes him look negligent towards one of his charges. That he never scolds Olivia for abusing Inco's trust after he vouched for him is annoying.
As someone on Reddit pointed out, "Iadakans willingness to essentially burn anyone to help Olivia goes under criticized he was really willing to let an active artist have his reputation be forever tarnished on the haopes she could forward about replacing Inco's submission has always kind of agistate md with how easygoing Inco is about it."
Inco always has to come to her rescue and receive practically no net benefit for it, other than having a moody chick with BPD be his girlfriend.
But again, she never faces any repercussions that aren't of her own making. In either case, she's still shielded from responsibility and never faces any lasting impacts since it's all brushed under the rug. If anything, it only feeds into her growing over-reliance on Inco which we see in E2. Iadakan practically sets them both up for this outcome which can only be avoided if Inco goes the extra mile in asserting himself. Which apparently has the effect of altering her personality so she actually respects him and doesn't just view him as a means to an ends.
I get that Iadakan is flawed and I think that's why he's a well-written character with a three dimensional personality. But his flippant attitude towards other people's works is, if anything, like a signal to Olivia that they're less important than she. Which happens in E2 when she leans on Inco who puts his own artistic pursuits on hold for her. And that could've been the case for all those whose art he destroyed. Maybe they wanted to continue pursuing but couldn't because life got in the way. Olivia continually has tunnel vision with regard to art being her only out. She tells Inco "there's no other baskets" during the rain scene, and this is pretty much Iadakan reinforcing that whether he knows it not.
Not to mention, but destroying both painting, he's not only covering for Olivia but himself who was aware of it. It just makes them both look self-serving. Inco, again, gets nothing out of this. He's a witness to it all and is along for the ride. A sensible person might've washed their hands of it all and walked away from them both.
He smashed her paintings knowing she could always make more because he's knows there's more to art than just mere material. He saw they were holding her back and was freeing her from bondage.
That's the narrative crux of the action, at least. But in his mind, he already had nothing to lose. He even says something sardonic like "what are they going to do, fire me?" And it's still piling more onto Mia, who you could say "deserved it," but it's still him throwing someone else under the bus. And Inco is just going along for the ride with no say in it. The game even makes of point of saying Iadakan ignores him when Inco initially protests what Iadakan is doing. For a story about Inco developing his own agency, his own needs are often placed on hold for Olivia who is the more flawed of the two.
Again, the problem is he let it get that bad due to his own initial inaction. If Inco had gone to Principal Scaler--which he really should have--Olivia and Iadakan both would've been forced to deal with their own crap. But everything conveniently aligns to Olivia not only faces lesser consequences but her coming out ahead of it is presented as her character growth, and not just her being allowed to cheat fate at Inco's expense.
She is Inco's anchor.
In E2, he let's her drag him down. In E3, he's strong enough to carry them both. In E4, they're both strong enough to work in tandem, but she still gets to avoid taking responsibility. It's Inco he has to clean up her mess in Scaler's office and outsmart Ben so he doesn't end up getting punished alongside Mia when he did NOTHING wrong. Then he has a moment where he turns to Ben and tells him it's all his fault from the beginning because of the article he wrote for her. But that flies in the face of Inco's earlier correct proclamation to Olivia that's she responsible for all her own problems if you make all the right choice in the Art Contest Blues chapter.
It all comes back to Inco himself starting as collateral in some ongoing war. He's a victim of fate in a lot of way. And while I think that makes him interesting, I don't like that Olivia essentially gets to get away with it. He's perpetually at the bottom of a triad composed of himself, Olivia, and Iadakan, with Ben in orbit.
Agreed. His redemption in E4 is half-assed, and I even want to say he's responsible for Mia getting to the point she reaches.
But again, Inco is just on the sidelines having to deal with the crap Olivia puts him through which Iadakan never rebukes her for. It's an unequal relationship. His art is just collateral.
Oh, I don't deny E2 Inco is very flawed. I've made no secret that I don't like him because of how annoying and weak he is. That doesn't make him any less of a victim though. He's just letting himself be victimized because we live in a society that's never not telling men and boys to "do better" and "be kind" by people who have no intention of reciprocating. He makes his own bed with Olivia.
With our mod, Inco has a chance at finally attaining personal agency, but he can't gain it without first severing his ties with Olivia. The worst Inco does in E2 is act with hubris while reinforcing Olivia's bad behavior without knowing it. She's still responsible for own selfish attitude.
I address all this in the first chapter of the Mia mod. Again, I'm not saying he's without fault. And even if he egged her on, she still made the choice to act that way herself. She's still responsible for her own behavior. This seems to be something people in this community forget. The game's narrative crux is that Olivia has to take responsibility for herself. She's not Inco's puppet. She's hears what she wants to hear from him. Hell, I even have Mia tell Inco flat out to his face that he puffed up her ego more or less. But Olivia still chooses to be how she is.
I ".. In fact, I was disappointed and even angry she did."
Mia "Well I mean why wouldn't she? She was the center of your attention—and Iadakan's too if what you're saying is right."
I "Yeah...she was the center of my attention. So why?"
Mia "Look, I'm gonna tell you a harsh truth as a chick myself: no woman respects a man who makes her the center of his world."
I "..."
Yes, both are deflecting blame. That's part of their mutual character flaws. Mia says it herself that people always project their flaws onto others, but that's what she herself is doing through her spiel. I explore all this in the Mia mod, and its four ending reflect that. (at least I hope).
During the part of E1 where she and 1nco are dancing, Mia has a lot of interesting insights about Olivia. From a technical standpoint, she is being what's called an external narrator, where instead of the narrator telling the reader vital points of interest in the plot, a character is expositing the most important parts. I believe that's what Cavemanon were doing with Mia on a mechanical level. But I take it to mean that Mia is a very streetwise person who knows how to read people. That would certainly be in keeping with her sociopathy. And the whole point of her cynical observations on people and the world is that it takes one with the disease to recognize the symptoms.
She and Olivia are more alike than either would like to admit.
Why wouldn't E2 Inco betray Iadakan? Considering his state of mind and also that he's feeling betrayed himself, having put so much effort into Olivia only to get shoved aside. Besides, Mia is intimidating him into telling her what she wants to hear.
Well, Inco has a chance to simp for Mia and reinforce her own behavior the way Ben did. I made this for fun because I always wondered about a Mia x Inco story, as have many others. It was just a question of find a good common denominator for them, and that's Solly, who I think had the potential to be a better mentor figure than Iadakan (or even Ferris for that matter).
Writing and programming is complete and the endings are all ready to go. It's just a matter of Sebek finishing up the assets. I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on the mod a month from now.
To say one final thing in closing, some people think I don't like Inco but that's not true. While it's true I don't like him as much as Anon, I think in some ways he's a better (or has the potential to be a better) protagonist because he doesn't spout esoteric 4chan humor(I like Anon's edgy jokes though) and is a more relatable fish out of water archetype. I feel bad for him if anything because he's often treated like a joke by the community, condemned to act the part of the bumbling nitwit paired with a more intelligent wife/girlfriend like it were some formulaic sitcom.
I've ended up resenting Olivia for this and wishing to see Inco treated with more respect. She's an annoying brat. I think Anon and Fang are a better couple on the whole. Inco and Olivia are too one-sided.