Left 4 Dead 2

Left 4 Dead 2

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Varis 30 Dec, 2023 @ 10:30am
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Just played this in Expert with 4 friends. Playtime 2 hours-ish.
(SI: Special Infected, CI: Common Infected)

Chapter 1 - I don't like how slow the gate is opening, paired with instant respawn SI and linear infected pathing with wide open area makes the holdout a frustrating experience rather than a challenging one. You keep getting swarmed again, and again with barely any break time. Even after exhausting all the grenades you have, one mistake and you'll get overwhelmed.

Also would appreciate if you give a clear indication that the horde near the safe house is an infinite horde or not.

Chapter 2 - Same frustration as chapter 1 but with a tight sewer area this time and also the mudmen! This was the chapter where we kept on dying again and again due to being overwhelmed by the non-stop SI. For the first half of the chapter, there are too many tight corners and areas that it's hard to fight both the CI and SI, we're forced to let the guy at the front to take care of MOST the CI & SI while the others hide like a turtle behind him because we are scared of friendly firing each other. It's fun for the guy at the front, but not so much for the guys at the back.

The tank though is okay, we could see how it's well thought that you put spaces to fight it and we managed to utilize them well.

At the valve areas, again, need a CLEAR indication whether the hordes are infinite or not, it's frustrating trying to guess; will the horde end or kept on going. Not to mention the actual valves, we had to guess what they are for at first and have no idea where to go paired with a tank out of nowhere spawning during a horde, needed some trial and error on exploring what to do with practically no reward after reaching each valves, that's just a waste of time really (yes we could see the green glow for the valves, but we still had to guess how to get there).

Chapter 3 - nothing to say, same like chapter 1 for most parts.

Chapter 4 - We weren't even aware after the second half that we need to keep going to the next area after we killed the 3 tanks (or was it 2?), we were camping near the fence on the back. Wasted so many resources that caused a restart in the end. Again caused by no indication, no cue, nothing explaining what to do. You shouldn't expect us to "die first, learn the map and try again", repeating because of an "unfair" death is really frustrating.

Also the spawning of the SI for the first & second half are very predictable as they kept spawning mostly from the same spot (for first half roof, second half behind the fencing at the back). Some SI kept getting stuck on the roof behind the chimney near the ambulance if we camp on top of the ambulance during the first half of the chapter.

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You could've put WAY more temporary health items like pills/adrens and more melee weapons on earlier chapters, we explored everywhere and there are ALOT of empty spaces (and shelves lol) that would've been perfect for those. Hell or even put a T2 weapon or a hunting rifle on some spots. You made a lot of exploreable areas but it felt like a waste of time trying to explore as we aren't properly rewarded for doing so.

Overall the current version as of I'm playing is not challenging but instead really frustrating; non-stop SI, no clear indication of what to do, no cues for events, minimal relief items after/before events, no reward for exploration of the map (except the intended hidden ones), linear CI pathing with little hold out spaces for hordes.

I suggest for you to take a look at Red Tide by Monsterman94 for reference on how to handle a similar finale, they did it fantastically.

Thanks for reading, hope this would help you improve.
Last edited by Varis; 30 Dec, 2023 @ 9:43pm
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iambogu  [developer] 2 Jan, 2024 @ 5:12am 
Thank you for your feedback. Well, there is a lot to answer so here we go:

Chapter 1:
The special infected has 12 respawn time to add tension. I'll consider to add few seconds to it, but for now I feel balanced, and not long ago I reduced the size of CI during the event. I won't lie that I wanted to be felt overwhelmed here, that's why the event design is how it is. The only time I use infinite horde is the event, after finishing it, the director changes script to a "master" script, which sets everything to default. So the horde at the saferoom was not an infinite one, and if I would use infinite horde, I would make a hint for the players to give clear indication.

Chapter 2:
I agree, that the SI were spawned too frequent. The timer here was set to 14 seconds, which is my fault. I changed it some time ago to 30. The default is 45, but I feel like this is the only chapter in the campaign that feels very linear due to tight corridors. that's why I want to keep the players in pressure with a more frequent SI spawning. But you were right, the 14 seconds were too much. At the event, there are clear indicators that tell you what is the objective and the hordes are infinite. I used 2 hints, each of them with 6 seconds to expire time. One of them should tell you that "Open the valves in each sector.", and the other one with this message "The hordes will not stop until you opened the valves." When you enter into a sector, a hint shows up, which tells you to open the valve, and moves to the target. If you've played with turned off instructor, I suggest to turn it on due to "unique" events to get clear information about what to do. If not, I don't know how I could make it more clear. The sectors were not made to be a maze, but I didn't want them too easy. Maybe it's the most difficult and longest event in the campaign, but it's intented to be. There are item spawns in each sector, but all of them are not fix-spawn locations. It's clearly on the director to spawn them. I increased the chances of item spawns in the first patch, but I feel like if I increase the chances even more, it's gonna make the campaign or the events too easy. But I agree with a little reward after the event, I'll think about something.

Chapter 4:
I agree that I could add a hint about what to do if you're in an area. I'll make sure to add them in the next patch. The reason of the predictable SI spawns is that the range of zombie spawns are limited to a specific range. I'll make sure to change that, but I had a bug with the CI, SI and Tank spawns, and this specific range prevented it. But you're right, I'll think about another solution. And it is not intented that they kept getting stuck in the chimney, so I'm gonna fix that.

However, I'm gonna playtest the item spawns and check if players are really lacking of them or not. I placed many item spawn locations on each map, but most of them are not fixed. The chances are not so high, that can cause the lack of items. I'll consider increasing it, but it's not 100%.

And thank you for the map suggestion, I'm gonna check it, and thank you again for the feedback.
Varis 3 Jan, 2024 @ 4:12am 
Adding a bit more extra info;

For us during chapter 2's valves area, there were no hints shown. We had our instructors on but maybe it's broken for us and not shown because we each also had some mods on. My bad if it actually works fine and that's the case with us.

Nevertheless maybe add a loud alarm/ringing that would also turn off the moment all valves are turned?
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