yeah that'll happen, dota isn't very good at handling a lot of particles, that's why the game starts breaking in long games (90+), now imagine everyone is casting spells 4x as much, essentially meaning after a quarter of the normal time ♥♥♥♥ starts breaking

Suggestion.... remove unnessesary particles.such as:
D.armor doesnt need particle its already showing on buff with timer
B.chest and above doesnt need particles but it will be nicer if its has timer buff same as d.armor.
Darkseer ion shell were all over the map that causing fps dropped.
Tinker march.... can it be simplify?
Involker late skills. Ether its fire aoe or morp wave.it will be nice to reduce it but still have same ammount of aoe.
Asura circlesss should be tweaked.
Dual golem when its cast meteror.can the metoer changed into something else that doesnt need so much lag.
Distruptor e...cut the animations.
Bm doesnt hide anymore on ng...but its still off but the particle doesnt triggered.
Instead scaling tons of hp that causing lag why not put extra armor or mag resistant in exchange?

because pure damage exists making extra rmor and magic resist useless; i also added the divine armor particles because they were requested

Originally posted by houthakker:

because pure damage exists making extra rmor and magic resist useless; i also added the divine armor particles because they were requested

Why not just scale everything down? Lower damage done by everything while lowering mooks/boss HP/armor(if needed). Will probably take ages to properly rebalance armor to hp and make pure still do a fair bit after scaling, but it might help with the HP of mobs that causes massive lag to most people and crashes the game for many others with worse PC during the (Usually) Slardar/Ogre/Tree waves. I suppose those people could just skip NG+ if no fix is ever done, but it kinda ruins games for those who do want to do NG+. I, myself, have complains for those 3 waves. Trying to dodge them as a caster with ~10FPS when they all chase me is annoying.

And yes, I know this doesn't help directly with the particles, but there will be generally less lag so a little bit of sticking particles wouldn't cause too much issues.

Originally posted by houthakker:

because pure damage exists making extra rmor and magic resist useless; i also added the divine armor particles because they were requested

what i meant was the D.armor has timer when its turn on the buff section right? i think the D.armor upgraded if can be made like that we dont need the particles, and i think its a dull request.

and if you are saying pure is too strong... then lets break it down
pure its self not so great
aspd its self without dmg lame
crit its self lame
so what make the dmg output is very good is with all of these components, i been try to used each of them...not so great even with wicked alone i cant kill sladar.same goes on the others.mostly that make its became so strong its crit items and im not talking about desolator or claw, trashy stuff. idk how the program works but all i know is that.. pure without crit is weak.

Originally posted by Karien:

Originally posted by houthakker:

because pure damage exists making extra rmor and magic resist useless; i also added the divine armor particles because they were requested

Why not just scale everything down? Lower damage done by everything while lowering mooks/boss HP/armor(if needed). Will probably take ages to properly rebalance armor to hp and make pure still do a fair bit after scaling, but it might help with the HP of mobs that causes massive lag to most people and crashes the game for many others with worse PC during the (Usually) Slardar/Ogre/Tree waves. I suppose those people could just skip NG+ if no fix is ever done, but it kinda ruins games for those who do want to do NG+. I, myself, have complains for those 3 waves. Trying to dodge them as a caster with ~10FPS when they all chase me is annoying.

And yes, I know this doesn't help directly with the particles, but there will be generally less lag so a little bit of sticking particles wouldn't cause too much issues.

I rather suggest reducing the amount of tree ogre,tree and slardar spawns specially in impossible/challenger or make the spawns weaker. And also aether boss causes this FPS problem with multiple skill spamming, maybe remove the animations/particle effects for that boss.This will solve the FPS problems much better. Your suggestion isn't bad but that makes things easier for hitters who do get a combination of pure damage+crit items.

Originally posted by SoZe:

mostly that make its became so strong its crit items and im not talking about desolator or claw, trashy stuff. idk how the program works but all i know is that.. pure without crit is weak.

Bahamut claw is the best crit item currently and does the best damage combined with wicked fury. Damage something close to getting 1x asura rapier/plate. So raising armor of mobs/bosses is useless and if you raise magic resistance you will get people complaining about int heroes being weaker again.

Originally posted by Forsaken:

I rather suggest reducing the amount of tree ogre,tree and slardar spawns specially in impossible/challenger or make the spawns weaker. And also aether boss causes this FPS problem with multiple skill spamming, maybe remove the animations/particle effects for that boss.This will solve the FPS problems much better. Your suggestion isn't bad but that makes things easier for hitters who do get a combination of pure damage+crit items.

Not when I did say to scale down their damage as well and scale down the percentages to those items.

Originally posted by Karien:

Not when I did say to scale down their damage as well and scale down the percentages to those items.

That's like reverting to a very old version of EBF. Something like getting beastitachi or divine crossbow only and crit items because the bosses were way weaker back then (Low HP, low armor). There was no wicked fury. EBF was much simpler and easier. Even then number of spawns caused FPS problems, specially in slardar round.

Oh and also remove particle effects on Bosses/Mobs by subzero/cursed sword. That also causes huge FPS drops.

Originally posted by Forsaken:

That's like reverting to a very old version of EBF. Something like getting beastitachi or divine crossbow only and crit items because the bosses were way weaker back then (Low HP, low armor). There was no wicked fury. EBF was much simpler and easier. Even then number of spawns caused FPS problems, specially in slardar round.

Oh and also remove particle effects on Bosses/Mobs by subzero/cursed sword. That also causes huge FPS drops.

But even the heroes having 9--21mil (I think. Try running any str hero with Asura heart+Paleblood+Asura plate+Blademail max upgrade that I can't remember name of+Wicked Fury+Maybe core.) HP doesn't help. Ever heard of a thing called power creep? It's happening in full force to this and it doesn't help with the DOTA2 reborn engine not being good with MASSIVE HP numbers.

Originally posted by Karien:

But even the heroes having 9--21mil (I think. Try running any str hero with Asura heart+Paleblood+Asura plate+Blademail max upgrade that I can't remember name of+Wicked Fury+Maybe core.) HP doesn't help. Ever heard of a thing called power creep? It's happening in full force to this and it doesn't help with Dota engine not being good with MASSIVE HP numbers.

I didn't say your suggestion is bad. It's just sound like too much work determining proper damage scaling on items like wicked fury and bahamut claw or other crit items according to the lowered HP. So I suggested reducing the amount of spawns or make them weaker (lower hp, low armor) similar to what you suggested because that's where we get huge FPS drops. Not from the gigantic HP doom or other bosses with high hp.
If reducing HP/armor value of all bosses, so 5-10% increase of pure damage on wicked fury from beastitachi/divine crossbow and Bahamut claw crit and -armor scaled down as well to something appropriate I have no idea of. Or you try giving suggestions for those. Don't think houthakker has time to test out what's balanced and not because there are tons of things still not balanced lol.

Originally posted by Forsaken:

I didn't say your suggestion is bad. It's just sound like too much work determining proper damage scaling on items like wicked fury and bahamut claw or other crit items according to the lowered HP. So I suggested reducing the amount of spawns or make them weaker (lower hp, low armor) similar to what you suggested because that's where we get huge FPS drops. Not from the gigantic HP doom or other bosses with high hp.
So 5-10% increase of pure damage on wicked fury from beastitachi/divine crossbow and Bahamut claw crit and -armor scaled down as well to something appropriate I have no idea of. Or you try giving suggestions for those. Don't think houthakker has time to test out what's balanced and not because there are tons of things still not balanced lol.

Shuld we stop fully quoting? I dunno.

But reducing spawns for the tree waves basically removes what it is about. Killing the small annoying bastards to stem the tide of trees after you. The normal Tree wave, for one, doesn't cause lag for me, but in NG+. the number of spawns+the massive HP of each spawn is the cause of the lag. This is why I suggest cutting the lag by reduction of ALL stats/HP/Damage. Would also last longer, since some people are complaining of lag when fighting against NG+ Weaver and that new one that's Invoker's summon. Single bosses that cause lag when your camera is over them. (Brood wave is another that induces a ton of lag, should have added it to the above. Even the normal wave sometimes causes people to DC from lag. Edit: Must add, am playing in SEA. Many people with potato PCs.)

Like i said before, you suggest values for reducing/balancing or houthakker's just gonna randomly reduce everything or do nothing at all because it's a rework of 90% of EBF.

For this laptop of mine I don't get huge or noticeable FPS drops other than on tree, slardar and ogre round in NG+ of any mode or NG of impossible/challenger. Add aether to the list. People with potato pcs instantly dc or crash when huge fps drops happen on any round but I don't so I can't speak for them. What i know is balancing or rescaling everything needs way too much time, he can't do it alone so you need to suggest or help him do it.

?!?! this is all about EBF performance, not play style or balancing.as we all know Doto 2 engine is not so good handling these things:
- tons of HP (its better handling armor & magic resistant)
- particles overtime, its stick because the loop scripts is too fast to handle non linear datas in chunk while that loop alone is costing your ram goes wild(4Gb or so), so it may fail to trigger non major commands)
- Looping checker:
radius eg: curse blood (this checking radius every tick or Onthink timer)
Onthink: total dmg,midas alce, crit,etc.
- Too many spawners with chunk of HP overtime.
conclusion : what cause it massive HP's, overtime loop scripts causing failure to some non priority commands, in order to gain performance without changing a lot of game play (still same game play) is to cut some particles like its said above, and HP reducing on bosses is reasonable, but if the case that pure is too strong i can said pure alone is not that strong.

*casters are pretty much is weak already or uttery crap now due NG. but... if the NG+ bosses HP,attack and quantities is decreased alot, meaning that 400% cap + veil should do the trick with this current magic resistant or if that HP decreased too strong than magic resistant should be buffed again.
* pure item like B.itachi & D.crossbow alone even with fang on Agi hero is still pretty weak, but once they get that wicked that splash 800 range and crit items(or maybe added A.rapier) its another different story.so what does it tell... SPLASHING is that make you win(with pure of course), you cant manage sladar NG without splash+dmg as simple as that. trying to single target em? you only get wrecked by em cause they will 1 shot u.yes pure is core items but is not that strong if i must said, got my point?
here some example: try used PA build B.itachi so in paper you got pure 35% +350 aoe + 25x crit from coupe de grace you should owning even without crit item right? you may test it to see the result.

*most sea gamers using a valueable laptop without seperated VGA, and most of gaming cafe is I3 class or the lowerest I5 class on some high class cafes, 4Gb, and a crap VGA that manufactured at 90's in average but there are so many game cafes that below than that(athlon X4 does still exsist)...LOL so yeah.... DC, auto kicked from doto is happen often.XD

the code itself is very light weight; there are no nested while loops or for loops; code is not an issue the entire problem is hp pools and dota's poor particle management