Good guide. You can add Visage to magical range dps. And SB isn't bad as you think he is. He is not a hit and run tank. Idk why you believe he is still bad. Axe behaves more like a hit and run tank early game lmao. He is way better at tanking than axe early game due to more armor. Axe can only get the same or more amount of armor as SB by calling which is for a short duration. SB has it like always. Just because his skills says MS into armor doesn't mean you go speed rushing boots, nox upgrades lol. Im saying this because I beat a challenger with SB as main tank. Idk what you are building on him to make it a crap hit and run tank. Octarine core, subzero?

Majority of people won't read these steam stuff. Kinda sad but true. SEA still have casters who get DPS items instead of caster items. Lame lol. Oh and SEA people telling to pick DK, spec, axe for tank. Spec is outdated and is the weakest 'tank' now. He is better as a hitter.

Lotus or manta is to remove no lifesteal/regen debuff from summoner golems and now weaver's debuff too if you have too many stacks of it.
Fang isn't an ideal heavy tank item, IMO. So i don't consider it a core for tanks but for agi DPSes. It's a damage item more specifically for Agi DPS as it adds bonus agi. The armor added from it and evasion is not as effective compared to the overall boost provided by nox/cursed sword (disarm active for early bosses + evasion + hp boost + little armor). So I consider Nox sword as a better item for tanks than bahamut fang but the cursed sword optional. For str heroes, asura armor/asura heart is better both as damage and tank because well... str adds more HP and also damage if you are a str hero than agi would.

children behave

You know what..feel free and be my guest. while im just cleaning up.XD

idk what this discussion is even about, tank is a role that means "absorb damage and maintain threat so the squishy dpses/casters don't die" that is literally all it means; you can tank in many ways (lifesteal+dps with a hp pool to not get oneshot; mass armor and passive regen; evasion stacking etc) as long as you are holding aggro and not dying you are a tank. you can off-tank, which means be the second tank in case the main tank lets aggro through etcetera.
there are only 3 core roles, tank, dps and support.
no matter how they perform their roles, they can't differ from this role, a nuker is still dps. supports support either through utility or through healing
that's all there is to it
semi-tanking, semi-hitting doesn't exist. if you are taking all the damage you are tanking if you are doing damage and not taking damage you are dps

This discussion is about me saying his particular tank build is not a true tank build as his build makes the tank absorb damage AND do damage. Main 3 roles like you mentioned are only tank, hitter/DPS , nuker. Idk what else you would call a tank that can absorb and do damage like a DPS would. It's not obviously just a tank anymore, it's doing more than just that. So Semi-tanks/Semi-hitters or Hybrids exist if you can do both of these roles simultaneously or you can subclassify them under the main roles such as tank or hitter.

Here is where the root begin,i will highlight some :

Originally posted by Forsaken:

On any tank I play by summoners/golem wave, I have these items: Divine armor, 1st upgrade of blademail, bloodgem, Nox sword, 1 manta/lotus/linkens/pixel armor. Before end of normal game I have bahamut chest complete with 2nd/3rd upgrade of blademailk. if I don't save money for buyback I could even complete bloodbooster or make something like octarine core upgrades/subzero.

and i put my build with B.Fang+B.itachi on tank over of B.heart+Nox.

Originally posted by Forsaken:

Fang isn't an ideal heavy tank item, IMO. So i don't consider it a core for tanks but for agi DPSes. It's a damage item more specifically for Agi DPS as it adds bonus agi. The armor added from it and evasion is not as effective compared to the overall boost provided by nox/cursed sword (disarm active for early bosses + evasion + hp boost + little armor). So I consider Nox sword as a core item for tanks

then i explaining why my build has fang on it, because im focus on lifesteal gain that need dmg on it (as we all know current ng+ a tank can be retired, i put those fang just to compete with that 1 or 2 persons that meld bosses in just a seconds) ,then forsaken bring this semi thing.

Originally posted by Forsaken:

Semi-hitter: A carry/DPS hitter who does significant amount of damage enough to kill mobs while also soaking up damage. This is durable in that sense. This here is the 'tank' you are talking about which is not in reality a tank but a carry/DPS hitter who can function as both a tank and DPS. You just pointed out the advantage of this one being able to kill all alone over the no damage type tank build I follow. To name a few, you can play any hero like WK,LS, DK, Axe, Centuar, Slardar, Morphling, Pudge in this style with the items you get.
Semi-tank: A durable/tank hero who does significant damage to keep yourself alive without depending on the other DPS hitters' damage while not killing the mobs. This is also again durable.
Eg: 1) Getting Excalibur, Unstable stone, Bloodgem/bloodmask and their upgrades along with evasion and armor items.
2) Getting octarine core, subzero or spamming skill that works with octarine core's lifesteal along with evasion and armor items. This what you called a spam tank.

so far so good but what coming that became triggered.

as i explaining semi tank nor semi hitter doesnt exist aymore what only exsist is "semi", if the semi hitter/semi tank exsist then where the role of that melee right clicker as they are shared quite the same as a tank that need lifesteal,armor,immunity,hp. then i put my general melee core items which is "D.armor,blue vlad/bloodgem,any butterfly upgraded(even nox is made by this compoment)

Originally posted by Forsaken:

Basic core items on melee heroes D.armor, hp...., bloodgem/butterfly. This is the typical in game build -Semi-hitter build I've always talked about. The Core items I talk about are based on roles like tank, hitters, nukers/casters. Not on whether they are ranged or melee.

its the same build as his spirit breaker core items but he claim his is a tank while mine is a semi-whatever its. then i try to explain with that CM reply. that hero original role can be change with their "build".which is more make sense as "semi" example.a hero original role are split into that simple categories but they can change it with their items so roles are not define from the hero&his skill set alone, so his concept of this hero has to be this specified this role, while i disagreed, i think semi or full crossing can be done with EBF items breaking those prisoning of this hero has to be this role that sounds too me too narrow.
then he reply it with "my build is not fixed" while on his prev post contain these words "On any tank I play".while im repeatly saying "if its works then its works", "if your works then is good".so that is what happen.

fyi : that CM player made some EBF videos that including orge with lenses, so he /she known that he/she doing or what the original heroes role are or the items made for.
"if your build works then is good" in other meaning "oke your build is working out for you then that is good thing for you and i respect that, so knock it off"

this is from 3 weeks ago orge
this is from 1 day ago cm

gain some facts before make false statement

Originally posted by Forsaken:

I already said the CM didn't even know what he is playing as OR he didn't even know caster items. He DIDN'T know he is a caster and ended up getting wrong items.

Originally posted by Forsaken:

I didn't say he didn't know what he was doing

he is playing EBF. what does its seem to you... he is catching Picachu on pokemon go?listen to yourself does your own statement sound make sense?

Thanks.

This is how you treat roles because these are THE main roles as established in your mind.
1) Tank
2) Hitter
3) Nuker/Caster
but they can be subclassified or A new role called HYBRID can be laid out based on the mix of items/skill builds.
You fail to notice 2 or more roles can be combined and this becomes A HYBRID aka "Semi-hitter" "Semi-tank" or "Semi-caster" or "All around" or "AllinOne"

Since you need detailed examples here it is what Hybrid means: "Something of mixed origin (2 or more) which produces results of both parent elements combined". Hybrid isn't as simple as you saying "Semi-tank means getting evasion items, midas fury, lifesteal items so you can farm gold" and this build not working anymore does not mean hybrids no longer exists. It just means that item build for the hybrid role you made no longer is viable. What hybrid really means is that you are doing 2 differerent roles at once starting from the whole game or starting from a part of the game like mid or late game.
If you apply this word hybrid to roles in EBF it means combining 2 or 3 roles in one item build/hero. Eg: Your tank or hitter can be a doing the same role at once eliminating the need of 2 seperate heroes who can do those 2 different roles.

Hybrid main classification:

1. Hero skill/stats based hybrid:
   Eg: Most solo heroes that can beat EBF and top tier tanks like DK, Lifestealer, WK, LC, Doom, etc.
   - Take lifestealer for an example.You don't need lifesteal items for this hero because he already he has a very good built in passive + skills likes lifeleech, pure damage. So you can build items that just give armor ,aspd and damage like D.armor , midasfury/unstable stone, bahamut fang, divine deso, nox sword and still be a tank/DPS without the help of a support or another tank. He can tank like a normal tank would with or without depending on others and would and also be a pure damage dealer like DPS would. THESE ARE 2 DIFFERENT ROLES IN ONE HERO. They are NOT same roles as an individual tank or hitter.
   
   
2. Item based hybrid:
   Eg: Tier 1 or Tier 2 tanks/hitters like DK, Centuar, PA, PL, Jugger etc.
   - Take PL for an example:
   He has no proper tank role complimenting skills/passive. So if you were to play him as a tank you would get Armor items, HP items,Lifesteal items atleast. ( Ignore this if it will confuse you: I am not talking about core items for a specific melee / range hero / playstyle . I am taking about a specific role and complimenting core items for that role . These item i.e Armor, HP/lifesteal are CORE ITEMs for a TANK. Evasion items are not core item for tanks and are situational based on the playstyle. This part about core items, situational items, playstyle are different topic so I will not explain here) . In addition to the core of items of a tank, you would also be getting evasion items, damage DPS items like crit items / pure damage so you can lifesteal or regen with or without the help of others. This again here is a hybrid build that lets you be a tank and at the same time deal damage like a DPS would.

So from those 2 above in EBF Semi-tank and/or Semi-hitter are 2 hybrids that still exist in the game but you had no knowledge what a semi-hitter or semi-tank really is.

1. Semi hitter: is a hybrid hero that can tank damage with or without depending on teammates for lifesteal based on damage while also BEING able to kill (doing crit/pure damage) mobs as a DPS would. They are doing 2 roles at the same time at the start or from any point of the match.
   - EG: For better understanding I will just say look at your item build for your tank mentioned in this guide. It's a combination of core items from 2 main roles: Core items of Tank ( Armor item - Divine armor, HP/lifesteal item - Bloodgem) & Core items of a hitter ( Aspd item: Butterfly upgrades/bahamut fang, Damage: Beastitachi's wood). You treat the butterfly as an evasion item + armor item + damage item here making it seem like a core item for your tank. But in reality it what you did was state the core items for a semi-hitter because you can do functions of both the roles of tank and DPS at the same time.
   
2. Semi tank: is a hybrid hero that can tank damage with or without depending on teammates for lifesteal based on damage while NOT BEING able to kill the mobs,
   EG: Any hybrid tank but doesn't have pure damage items or magic damage so this tank cannot kill. But this tank just stands there like a normal tank would lifestealing without the help of others. This is why i subclassfied tank into 2: True tank and Semi-tanks. You can consider semi-hitter to be a tank too. It is not wrong. But it's more related to a hitter than a tank so I subclassified this into a hitter.

Core items of Tank + Core Items of Hitter = Core items of Semi-hitter/Semi-tank.You can't deny this simple FACT. If you don't understand what a hybrid at this point ,I don't know what a hybrid like semi-hitter/tank means to you. What i do know is you don't understand what a hybrid is and the concept behind it so I hope I made myself clear with this.

The roles classficiation i stated before is not a fixed theory or an established fact known to pub players or even the developer. It is how "I CLASSFIED MAIN ROLES" based on what I experimented with different heroes and undestanding of EBF. Since you don't follow my classification of roles, you will simply categorize the tank build you do as a Tank build and not a hybrid build because you can do functions of both. But at the same time someone else might say your build is a Hitter build. You can't deny that fact just because YOU believe it is not a hyrbid and hybrids don't exist. But you just did deny this fact saying i am wrong and your build is the true tank build for a tank whatsoever. I didn't say it's not a tank anywhere. You just assumed this because I said it's a "semi-hitter". Your brain can't comprehend this because you don't have this deep or complex understanding of roles and the concept of hybrids.

Therefore: Don't assume things you don't know and be narrow-minded like you yourself is proving by refusing to read anything I say , making a false assumption of hybrids is a simple term and no longer exist because your old builds doesn't work for that role. And STOP cherry picking parts of everything I say or throw away certain parts of what i write. They are ALL related. You cherry picking means it goes out of context and what i said doesn't even make sense appearing as I if am not even making a proper argument.

+1 for giving so much effort in details.xd

I think I will delete everything else I said before. The last post I did clears most of the misunderstanding you had when i said your build is a semi-hitter.

Playstyle, item builds we can discuss about that if you want. Oh and tier classficiation of heroes according to their main roles .

Its will be nicer to make it around fix broken items patch.ithat i think will make a huge different on ebf build etc.

i want to point out that ogre build is awful and he wasted 2 slots on lenses considering spell amp from lenses is capped at 400%