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Dota 2 >  Workshop > Plexus's Workshop > Epic Boss Fight (Discontinued) > Discussions
Epic Boss Fight (Discontinued)
Description Discussions768 Comments5326 Change Notes
76561198051628493 26 Jan, 2018 @ 8:16pm
discussion about reworks and some other stuff to point out.
in general :

BB
the concept of gameplay of the hero are a durable hero/front liner, spamming to reduce armor and dealing somesort of stacks dmg.
- need to able to spam
- need to be as front liner
290 mp per cast on Q or R each is killing the spam mech even with top tier octatine doesnt helping that much 60-70 ist mana regen are too low compare to 500ist every second that its required to be effective, beside 1s CD are already low and every skill casted on round to the top of value which mean 0.5,0.6 etc are rubish as its still equal to 1s CD.with this consideration octarine tier and int gain are not viable for this hero cause we also need to consider the tanky aspects too.

Clink
the concept of gameplay of the hero are a pretty much carry dmg type not a tank type nor hybrid, but he got some issues:

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1281890855

this will tell whats wrong with this hero, even bb cant match on tanky nor dmg aspect, bb with somesort of lifesteal with huge regen and 600ist armor are not even close to clink ability to tanking while do some ♥♥♥♥♥ of dmg even asura or any deathly skills that bosses throwing at him.how is that justified?

Sladar
bring back his minus armor ult or original skills set.the stun are not that great, and the rest are not relyable. lowest tier.

Spectre
ultimate are too low, thin hp. not as tank anymore nor dps. no 1 play this hero anymore, lowest tier.

Armor
yeah the boss will never reach below 0 armor most of the time, even you can bring into minus value like on SF boss (only) its still take some extra time, with that being said after this huge nerf at least all minus armor are stackable eg: 2 players have deso 1 each so its should apply both on stacks not only 1 and refresh the timer considering the dmg from claw tier are not that great $ wise.

Magic Reduction
same as armor problem.

Rerandom
Rerandom pick enabled.

DC Select Pick
DC upon pick menu should playable.

Status Reduction
lets face it status resistant are lame and the value are insanely stupid, this bring all kind of type disable heroes into garbage tier we are talking about most of int heroes and some str heroes with disabler type of skill set, eg: 28s centaur stun vs reality check 0.5ist s are insane, and the debuff are real which mean DOT type are inrelevant, at least this number should bring down to common senses of values.

Soul Items
lets face it this the lamest item on this map and only 1 hero among 100ist heroes that need this not to mention this item doesnt works effciency as on old map. break down this item from heart component and just make it simple like lens and make it cheaper way more cheaper.

well with this being said, there are tons more stuffs that to be discuss further in detail that wont fit into a single post.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; 26 Jan, 2018 @ 8:22pm
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Showing 1-15 of 52 comments
76561198051628493 26 Jan, 2018 @ 9:38pm 
Alcemist
the concept of gameplay of the hero are a hard carry(aspd, fast farm) with some extra durable(regen)
- need to fast farm (checked)
- need to be as carry (dmg are too low)
- durable (well the regen alone wont help this hero on this mod, need some extra items eg: armor,hp & life steal)
the dmg are too low, even with minus armor from Q are not that great since the base dmg even with fang and bahamut heart + bitachi still tickling bosses,cant called as carry at all, but may argueable as a supporting with gold advanced. the talent are not that sync to tranform into a carry nor a tanker.maybe some tweak on talent will bring this hero align cause W talent are just too lame, and other talents wont help this guy out that much.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; 26 Jan, 2018 @ 9:39pm
#1
Karien 27 Jan, 2018 @ 2:50pm 
Wrong. Alche was intended as a GREED hero. $$$ maker. Low damage isn't an issue with him. Also, even TANKY heroes NEED armor, so what are you talking about? You want his ulti to be buffed till OP just so you can hit R and tank everything? He's not a tank nor a DPS, he's more utlity. In this sense, GREEDY moneymaker. He's balanced by being meh/trash at everything else.
#2
76561198051628493 27 Jan, 2018 @ 6:01pm 
its not completely true if you said he was more utility, just look at the talents man, 10% of midas knuckle net, 75 aspd, regen and other stuff etc, none of those boost his greed like x2 greed per hit maybe, so its clearly tranform into semi carry with some sort of tanky aspect not as you claim as he is.so this is why i said the talent are not sync well. for a simple example lets take SF: the talent are clearly choosing between magical or right clicker this is make him as a dps not other role or silencer maybe being a rightclicker or more utility and maxing his Q,R.got the point?
#3
76561198051628493 27 Jan, 2018 @ 7:10pm 
PA
the W or blink is nice with extra Q dmg on talent but there some trouble about it.its apply like blink dager which mean having cast animation and its out of point thats mean if the x and y not corrects she need extra time to afking (normalized animation) and walking to enemy, this is a big flaw. why? she having too thin hp.if we play like we normaly do, with counter on low hp and activated life steal item, between that animation timer and walking surely she is dead meat.overall she quite pretty much the same, the ult is the same, the base dmg still low, so without fang, +-9k dmg with d.armor,vlad,b.itachi, d.deso on asura is pretty low, yeah she can crit 700%ist and - 40 armor but it doesnt help that much or under buff.not so great on treant round vs 500 armor.XD

Centa
same as above, pretty much the same, bm, heart, sny/blood gem(pixel upgraded or d.armor) still the core build as centa need chuck of str to be viable, but the build may vary.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; 27 Jan, 2018 @ 7:11pm
#4
76561198051628493 27 Jan, 2018 @ 8:08pm 
Rikimaru
riki, idk what to say about this hero concept are, but looking the talents its seem utility but not utility at all cause smoke do not silent anymore, but for sure the gold are the most shine of all talents but unlucky its not shared so not so much as utility stuff, i think the best to make this hero effictive are self gold digging and carry out late game with items. with that being said, wanna to point out some issues here, idk what do the dev do with blink mech but its totally broken. can blink to ground point, which mean most of the time doesnt land on backside. same as PA bug.i think the nerf on smoke, front side slash agi bonus removed and his immun ult replaced with 25 gold per hit kinda make his game play change alot.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; 27 Jan, 2018 @ 8:14pm
#5
76561198051628493 28 Jan, 2018 @ 5:49pm 
Techis
after playing it just after gold round aka r2 the lacks is detected.suicidal hero, if you want to die often this is the kind of hero i will recommented. why? there are no target point anymore, which mean all base on hero x and y pos aka 150 combat range. which kind silly. lets run some scenes:
so assume using D(suicidal skill) which trigger thread then placing QWE, and with lv 25 talent name 8 which is awesome for silly factor again btw. the long cd make this combo not viable but also the dmg are too low cant even clearing sladar minions even with 6xQ and 4xE which is kinda silly, not to mention before even cast QWE u are dead by mobs. and the ultimate combo to stun then casting ultmate casting for a freaking 5s wont works, why? cause the status resistant mech try 25% status resistant still 3.5s stun vs reality 1s stun, +3s stun which is kinda silly again cause even 28s stun are still debuffed on 1s...

conclusion: so yeah old 1 you can play safe cast out of range which he should, and now just a simple word "suicidal freak". Q stacks are awesome,instant blow make hit less target then its should,but the placing target are very bad, W sad (try to make a play wombo combo are just too silly except this skill can piercing status resistant 100% which quite soso), E same as Q, 500 movement kinda useless cause the cd too freakin long to spam and make a big bang of C4's (lets assume 20s original reduced by top tier octarine which we will get maybe around asura round into 10s and with talent maybe around 8s / 9s, mean while 15-19s cd make this per round maybe 3-4 stacks so yeah.. quite useless),D quite decent, bur the R, this is just speechless. with that being said overall the feel of huge nerfed are real, not only the game play are changing 100% but also consider many aspects i think we can said from fun factor 10 for fun game make this hero into 2 out 10. if the concepts were to make techis more active then the thread should be reduced, still target point skills, and if the R still casting for 5s at least W should piercing 100% bosses, otherwise 1 more hero put under "never played hero" section.XD
Last edited by F_D_Throne; 28 Jan, 2018 @ 5:53pm
#6
76561198051628493 28 Jan, 2018 @ 10:36pm 
i came to believe that lacks of focus and in rush for whatever reasons may bring chaos on many aspects, may bring headache to dev and unpleasent game mech. i meant there nothing to rushing about,but yet premature patch was released. the items came many flaws, some items are not givng attributes than its should be and the info on some still old value or out of values. eg: d.titan its said 35 but reality its 17.silent now cant canceling bosses skills nor stun in this case.maybe rechecking the value or desc will be nice.
#7
76561198051628493 29 Jan, 2018 @ 8:58pm 
your NP reworks need to fixed.
1. the trees can stuck your ally.
2. the treants can stuck your ally too. quite a trolling for melees.
#8
Sidearms 30 Jan, 2018 @ 2:31pm 
We can't prevent the trees from getting stuck in players
#9
76561198051628493 30 Jan, 2018 @ 5:47pm 
Originally posted by Sidearms:
We can't prevent the trees from getting stuck in players
hem, i think the normal doto push a bit hero when tree spawns right? and also the 2nd patch of necro 2.0 its has already been done, and also in old time treants was treated as phase boots it was been done a year ago. so i think its possible.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; 30 Jan, 2018 @ 5:48pm
#10
76561198051628493 30 Jan, 2018 @ 6:42pm 
10 out of 10 for the quality control.thumb ups

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1286959017

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1286959072

well done works for quality contents here man, this is beyond godlike.

yeah sure every 45s, lets give players 4 necros, sf, and golem at the same time, and lets respawn doom and necro on 0 timer, nice... and lets spawns asura + bm at the same time... epic...this in on normal mode btw cant even thinking what happen on hardcore. nice, keep it up...

in simple words this is "outer universe of insanity". what have you all been done man....im sad



Last edited by F_D_Throne; 30 Jan, 2018 @ 6:46pm
#11
76561198051628493 30 Jan, 2018 @ 10:32pm 
update on ASURA round are too broken :

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1287061095

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1287061032

look at the minimap?

so every 45s its making a new bosses so its stackable in this case so its mean your team need to kill that random bosses regardless whats respawns it can spawns 2 necro + doom, or any kind of crap the uncalculated random thingy that is too lit to tell with words.and afterward we have to deal asura+bm... been tested several times same result so this is pure brainless untested patch not just some bug.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; 30 Jan, 2018 @ 10:35pm
#12
dopamine hunter 31 Jan, 2018 @ 4:11am 
it's very hard to 'quality control' proper 5 man balance as a single player my man; the bosses only have 25% their original health; i'll also make them all have 0 armor and magic resistance if that's not enough; the asura bug is again a bug i did not have in my local version which means it's a server delay issue

the thing is the shield goes down before the cooldown has refreshed, so you can sneak in attacks even if the previous bosses are still alive
Last edited by dopamine hunter; 31 Jan, 2018 @ 4:13am
#13
76561198051628493 31 Jan, 2018 @ 5:24am 
if only they also cant instant kill you then we solved 1 issue but still on performance aspect are not, keep spawning to even just getting a rune sometime the server just delaying for a couple seconds, and also stackable are just silly... so lets run some scene here: hardcore mode, yeah you can get away with 2 golems, but 4 necros, doom and a sf? yeah we can ignore sf, with blink shoes that quite buggy to unrespond on some heroes as i mention ziliion times put medusa also on those lists which even spamming blink shoes she will not jump maybe cause due the high data transfer or animation cast or whatever it may be,assume that we can get away with 3 necros, and run out of fuel to blink, and by this point those necros still can hit u from mars or even pluto....then dodge the doom razes then doom cast that all map except water yeah while we busy dodge necros we also need to zigzag the razes, yeah... im not buying that at all. to put some perspective here i will give an imaginary example, cause im ff fan lets put sefirot into perspective, so he can summon another ultimate weapons in-game unlimited every x seconds.how its feel?or how its even justified?and how many does hp of each boss we talking about here? 100.000? and how many are the a dps can do minus walking, animation,back swing, juke, pressing bkb, etc? on average the base dmg are around 4k+3k from pure+deso maybe its still below 20k(with balance build) yeah some hero can goes beyond that due the unbalance thingy.. yeah you can greedy building all dmg items and get recked on 0 minute = 0 dmg.

im not debunking the game play here man, for the record its has been done pretty well even have to burn some lives there, but its not those that im talking about other than the "game logic" its self. yeah the game logic count as no entity in map and run the next round scripts. and i know its hard to do what you do and i feel i do overstep some times and make your day with my comments and im getting hard time to give u a hard time, for that im so sorry, just wanna to make a bright day for you to continue make an awesome patches and games with a smile not with a stress, well you still have die-hard fans that willingly to run those tests before its even hit the market, that should be bottom lined.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; 31 Jan, 2018 @ 5:42am
#14
76561198051628493 31 Jan, 2018 @ 7:45pm 
whats this man?

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1287847382

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1287847319

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1287847281

http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1287847252

a swimming season? swimming asura, diving drake kings, and a handstand blood mother.mega lol of memes.XD. the new spawning are awesome, its does the tricks. will added some bug accur due testing game tho.

OD : E still eating mana even with bkb on, its doesnt debuffing. only works on stun i think. and the aggro seem out of number by that Q overtime does rising the number same as silencer which are not handy at all, and even aggro dropped into 0 the bosses and minions still aiming for the banana and ignoring the rest of the team.

can we post recommended items for heroes? its so out of dates...and btw when the stable version will came out? wanna to updating on wiki.cause its same, out of dates.
Last edited by F_D_Throne; 31 Jan, 2018 @ 7:46pm
#15
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