I'm flattered you took the time to make this thread! Some of my thoughts.

1. I'd kind of considered an evolving idea set, not unlike Third Odyssey has, where the opening set is more about surviving your starting situation and then progressing to more advanced ones, maybe a choice between going for broke and pursuing the Justinianic boundaries or something more suited for semi-tall. Ideas have definitely got me thinking, but it's hard to throw everything in there, especially how government mechanics can now take a significant chunk of the strain, like how in 1.35 the reformed state gives you autonomy and separatism.

2. I'm kind of back and forth on special CBs, given that most of the Empire outside what Basil II achieved was almost a millennium outside of the Empire's control, I don't see Western Europe taking too kindly to you beating up Portugal for the province of Lusitania in 1450, even if you have a note from your mother for it saying it's okay. If I were to use such CBs, likely they'd be awarded piecemeal through missions, like the Ottoman Eyalet ones.

3. I'm more open to this, though it would be a part of my broader thoughts of how to continue from the choices made during the Union Revolt. In short, I see a branching mission chain where Orthodox Byzantium is basically the assemble-the-Pentarchy-dismantle-the-Papacy vanilla path, whereas a Catholic Byzantium embraces those western institutions and seeks to dominate them. Basically two flavours of Caesaropapism. The Secular reward would indeed be favourable terms for HRE membership (keeping our Empire Rank for one), and the Sacred is one I'm not even sure is scriptable but would love to do: Permanent Curia Controller.

4. Historically this models pretty well from my understanding of status and events, so I can see the appeal. However while it bars the Ottomans from an early strike against you, it also means you can't strike early against them, not without a stab hit at the least. In vanilla I tend to have an aggressive strategy against the Ottomans and being walled off from doing it would be frustrating. And if the suggestion ever got adapted into the vanilla game I doubt Ottoman players would thank you for that. I'm always trying to keep how it all feels from a gameplay perspective in mind as well.

5. For sure. An alternate way to unlocking the Senate rather than just conquest would be a good starting position.

I really like these mods. My suggestions would be 1. having a byzatium tech group instead of eastern tech (modernized cataphracts?) 2. a mid game disaster around 1530s. maybe involving the orthodox church or with conquered turks or bulgars

@RMS Oceanic, here is what I thought would be the idea set Byzantium actually deserves. I have this written down as a Notepad file on my PC.

For the starter traditions I would suggest some things to get them moving:
1. Diplomatic Reputation +1, possibly even +2, because after all, they ARE the Roman Empire.

2. Core Creation Cost -30%, I would veer on the high side due to the sheer amount of land they need to grab. I have seen some Crusader States in Extended Timeline get as high as 30% CCR in their ideas (Achaea, Thessalonica), so it frankly would be okay for a nation asked to conquer THAT much high-development land.

Ambition (when all ideas below are unlocked): Administrative Efficiency +5%

For the other ideas, I could imagine the following:
⦁ Justinian's Ambitions: "After the fall of the west, Emperor Justinian led our forces on a mighty reconquest of most of the western lands. We would have held onto that land if not for the combination of plague, Lombards, Persia, and especially Muhammad. That land, no - all the former Roman lands - are our God-given right, and we will take it back. Province War Score Cost -25%

⦁ The Honor of Rome: "When we arose, our legions were the finest troops the world had to offer. These days, the barbarians around us have caught up to, if not surpassed us in some respects. We will restore this prowess, and once again make Roman Legions something to fear." Infantry Combat Ability +10%

⦁ Imperial Vassal Expertise: "Much of our rise to power was due to steady lordship over and eventual integration of vassal kingdoms into our fold. Nations would join willingly (or not) and once we had the people able to handle the land in place, we would make it a proper piece of us. Times have changed, but how vassal integration works has not." Diplomatic Integration Cost -25%, Diplomatic Relations+2

⦁ Recovery of Greek Fire: "With our recovery following the overextension and collapse of the Turks, we have once again obtained the source materials for our weapon of old. Learning from its past weaknesses, we have borrowed the invention of our accursed enemy, Venice, and invented Greek Fire-filled cannonballs. Our ships were once feared - any who think otherwise will burn." Naval Fire Damage +10%, Naval Shock Damage +10%

⦁ Romanization: "Before our rise to power centuries ago, Alexander the Great tore apart Persia and Egypt, spreading Hellenic culture far and wide. When we rose and took the place of his squabbling remnants in Anatolia and Egypt, we borrowed some of their ideas. We will give those we conquer a greater whole to be a part of, as we once did before and shall again." Culture Conversion Cost -25%

⦁ The Gateway to Europe: "Even before the fall of the west, the beating heart of our economy was not Roma nor Mediolanum, but Constantinople. Linking trade between Europe and Asia, particularly that from Persia and even more importantly China, we were a trade hub like no other up until the Fourth Crusade. Now that we have rebuilt, it is time to reclaim the former status of our dear city." Trade Efficiency +15%

⦁ Rightful Roman Clay: "Alexander brought Greek civilization deep into Asia and spread across the Mediterranean. We continued this trend much further. Once we have conquered our rightful lands and pacified them, why should we stop?" Activates mechanic added in 1.35 to claim whole states.

Those suggested ideas are stronger than Rome's, I doubt they'd ever reach vanilla in that form. Also they feel almost a bit too focused on conquest. Ideas should also reflect other aspects of the nation's culture, like in my take I think Byzantium holding onto its uniquely high tolerance of true faith and missionary strength makes sense.

Originally posted by RMS Oceanic:

Those suggested ideas are stronger than Rome's, I doubt they'd ever reach vanilla in that form. Also they feel almost a bit too focused on conquest. Ideas should also reflect other aspects of the nation's culture, like in my take I think Byzantium holding onto its uniquely high tolerance of true faith and missionary strength makes sense.

The idea is that for a nation starting so tiny to be expected to conquer THAT much high-development land, they need very powerful ideas to give them the ability to do such. Maybe yes, they are too strong, and the numbers could be turned down.

There was a very long and expansive post detailing in the development of Byzantine Resurgence for Beyond Typus how the NI set for ERE really makes no sense to what the nation was historically. From what I remember about the post, essentially it went into detail about how Rome was in general far from a religious monolith.

I'm always down to hammer out details on the idea set. Which ideas/traditions would you propose adding/replacing/adjusting?

Originally posted by Astragon:

The idea is that for a nation starting so tiny to be expected to conquer THAT much high-development land, they need very powerful ideas to give them the ability to do such. Maybe yes, they are too strong, and the numbers could be turned down.

Ryukyu is expected to conquer all that land and much more, and their only contribution to this task is strong Aggressive Expansion reduction. People regularly form Rome and/or World Conquest with Byzantium's current idea set, and while I'm not against giving their ideas a boost, I'm also hoping the ideas keep their strength of Flavour. It would also be in conjunction with maybe devising more government reforms which can cover some of the modifiers you want to bestow.

I suggest adding more monuments. Don't need to be monuments that are only available to rome, most likely they would be available to france or spain or italian nations too, but that's all I would suggest.
Other than some cooler units for byzantium, though that is not really a big deal but would one day be nice anyways.

Originally posted by RMS Oceanic:

Originally posted by Astragon:

The idea is that for a nation starting so tiny to be expected to conquer THAT much high-development land, they need very powerful ideas to give them the ability to do such. Maybe yes, they are too strong, and the numbers could be turned down.

Ryukyu is expected to conquer all that land and much more, and their only contribution to this task is strong Aggressive Expansion reduction. People regularly form Rome and/or World Conquest with Byzantium's current idea set, and while I'm not against giving their ideas a boost, I'm also hoping the ideas keep their strength of Flavour. It would also be in conjunction with maybe devising more government reforms which can cover some of the modifiers you want to bestow.

Nowhere in Ryukyu's mission tree does it ask for you to pull a World Conquest. Sure, there's a (frankly stupid) achievement for doing so, but that isn't so much of an "expectation" in a sense.

Meanwhile the entire ERE mission tree is all about reclaiming the former imperial lands. I will concede that I am probably trying to do too much with the idea set alone.

What ideas for government reforms do you have to help here? I'm down to hammer out something more reasonable as a modified idea set for ERE.

Originally posted by sumguy:

I suggest adding more monuments. Don't need to be monuments that are only available to rome, most likely they would be available to france or spain or italian nations too, but that's all I would suggest.
Other than some cooler units for byzantium, though that is not really a big deal but would one day be nice anyways.

Many other mods already do stuff like this. Flavor Universalis (now absorbed into Europa Expanded) made a unique Theodosian Walls monument replacing the vanilla one which would add two fort levels in Constantinople for every level the monument is improved. Thus the moment you found the ducats to afford it (Peace Deals Expanded "Raid Curia Coffers" go BRRRRRR) you can get a lvl9 fort centuries before everyone else.

Originally posted by Astragon:

Originally posted by sumguy:

I suggest adding more monuments. Don't need to be monuments that are only available to rome, most likely they would be available to france or spain or italian nations too, but that's all I would suggest.
Other than some cooler units for byzantium, though that is not really a big deal but would one day be nice anyways.

Many other mods already do stuff like this. Flavor Universalis (now absorbed into Europa Expanded) made a unique Theodosian Walls monument replacing the vanilla one which would add two fort levels in Constantinople for every level the monument is improved. Thus the moment you found the ducats to afford it (Peace Deals Expanded "Raid Curia Coffers" go BRRRRRR) you can get a lvl9 fort centuries before everyone else.

yeah, but are they compatible?

I would really like some civil war events or interesting roman events in general. Maybe some religious disagreements in the country. Some kind of byzantine version of protestants. The game becomes a bit boring when Byzantium gets big. Thank you for the mods RMS Oceanic ! Your colection of mods is fantastic already.

Originally posted by Pupienus:

I would really like some civil war events or interesting roman events in general. Maybe some religious disagreements in the country. Some kind of byzantine version of protestants. The game becomes a bit boring when Byzantium gets big. Thank you for the mods RMS Oceanic ! Your colection of mods is fantastic already.

The mod Pope Leo's Nightmare kinda does this - one of the major Protestant Groups spawns in the Balkans, which if you don't have all of as ERE by the time of the Reformation you're doing something wrong. I would love to see another religion added on top of that specifically in Roman Orthodox provinces, but I am totally unsure what it would be.

I'm loving this collection, it goes a long way in making Byzantine a truly great experience. I have a few suggestions for mechanics / flavour that I think would go a long way in improving the Romaboo experience even further!

I'd like to make it clear that these are a list of ideas, based more so on a fun gameplay experience rather than concrete historical fact. It is also not a list of demands, because of course this is your mod series to make!

Name Change

1) Once you triumph in the Balkans, the name of "Byzantium" should change to the "Eastern Roman Empire" to showcase your true claim as not the successor of the Roman Empire, but THE Roman Empire. It is at this point that the west must treat you with greater respect.

Succession Rework

2) For balance purposes, I think the danger of civil wars, military usurpation and the rise and fall of dynasties should be expanded upon. Roman succession was never truly set in stone, and there is numerous occasions of competent (and not so competent) generals seizing control of the state during succession.

2.a) On monarch death, if the heir has low stability, low realm stability and/or low monarch stats, the normal "rise of a pretender" event should be replaced with a similar event, one I'll call "Imperial Succession Crisis" for simplicity. This event can have up to four different options; "Support The True Emperor", "Support The Familial Claimant", "Support The Rising Nobility", "Support The Military".

2.b) "Support The True Emperor" is the usual option, where you keep the current Emperor. This option will greatly increase stability and legitimacy once order is reestablished. The Pretender rebels in this option will be the revolting relative. This option is always available.

2.c) "Support The Familial Claimant" is when you support the rise of a more skilled or legitimate relative to take the throne for himself. This option will result in the relative becoming Emperor. They will have high administrative stats, with randomised Military and Diplomatic stats. The usurper will gain a medium amount of legitimacy once order is reestablished due to their dynastic claims.The Pretender rebels in this option will be the original Emperor fighting for his claim. This option is always available.

2.d) "Support The Rising Nobility" is when you support a new dynasty to seize the Emperorship for themselves. This option will result in a new dynasty taking control of the Empire. They will have high diplomatic stats, with randomised Military and Administrative stats. The usurper will a low amount of stability once order is reestablished. This option is only available if the nobility's influence is greater than 60%, if you do not meet these requirements, the nobility will not rise up.

2.e) "Support The Military" is when you support a skilled general to seize the Emperorship for themselves. This option will result in a new dynasty taking control of the Empire. They will have high Military stats, with randomised Diplomatic and Administrative stats. The usurper will gain a low amount of stability once order is reestablished. This option is only available if you currently have a two star general employed in the country. If you do not meet these requirements, the military will not rise up.

2.f) The worst case scenario is fighting off three opponents of the throne, be it the original emperor, the relative, the nobility or a usurping general. The AI would be equally weighed to support any candidate. I believe this would better represent the rise and fall of dynasties.

Government Reforms

3) There are several government reforms I believe would add a considerable amount of flavour to your Roman campaign.

3.a) Res Publica: A reform that restores the Senate to full control over the Empire. The Emperor becomes a figure head and the Consul becomes the new head of government. Bonus to Republican traditions, national unrest, manpower, trade etc. Low max absolutism

3.b) The New Principate: The Emperor is once again considered the "First Citizen" of the Empire. He works in cooperation with the Senate to rule the Empire. Bonus to national unrest, tolerance, admin efficiency etc. Medium max absolutism.

3.c) The New Dominate: The Emperor never restores the Senate to any kind of power and he shall rule unopposed. The Empire shall continue as an absolute monarchy. High max absolutism.

Dealing with the HRE

4) The HRE would be a fun mid to late game challenge for players. I believe there are a few ways of handling the HRE.

4.a) Joining the HRE: To join the HRE, the Roman Emperor would be effectively recognising the HRE as the legitimate successor to Rome, or at least it would throw the Eastern Empire's claim into serious doubt. This would be highly controversial in the Eastern Empire and would cause a lot of unrest. Once in the Empire, the current Emperor will gain massive prestige and Imperial Authority bonuses for the duration of the current ruler's life. From here you can advance in two ways. If you became Catholic, you will largely be accepted as apart of the HRE, and the other electors may vote for you to become Emperor yourself. If you remained Orthodox, you will have to subjugate the other electors and force them to crown you as HRE Emperor. (CB can be acquired via the mission tree.). Either way, once you become Emperor you'll get Imperial Authority bonus so long as you control the Emperorship. Once the HRE Empire title is made hereditary via the HRE reform, you can declare the title of HRE Emperor defunct, merging it into the title of Roman Emperor. The final reform is locked until after you form the Roman Empire tag. Once that tag is formed, you can take the final reform, which annexes the HRE vassal swarm.

4.b) The second option is much simpler. You will get a special one time CB to dismantle the Empire. This however will be no easy accomplishment, as not only the Emperor and their allies will join, but every elector will join against you. Succeeding in your fight will result in massive legitimacy and prestige for your realm, and you will get bonuses to conquering the rest of the old Roman Empire.

Revamped Mission Tree

5) A revamped mission tree would be excellent.

5.a) On the conquest side, obviously your missions should include restoring Rome, but the should also offer access to other avenues of conquest, namely Persia and Germania.

5.b) On the Administrative side, I think missions about restoring and spreading Roman institutions would be beneficial. Restoring the Eternal City to something deserving of the title would be ideal. Other missions about spreading ReRomanization across the western Empire would be fun.

@Mooto24 wouldn't it be easier to simply usurp the title of eastern roman emperor? You've probably played either the Third Odyssey or Empires of Ruin mods by now and can see how they did it there.

My thoughts for handling the HRE are tied in to how I'd handle at least part of Religion, based in what you decide after the Union Revolt and the Plethon event chains. In short, for both the Papacy and the HRE a resurgent Byzantium desires to dominate both, but the flavour of Caesaropapism differs. An Orthodox (and every other religion) Byzantium would take the current path of dismantling them, and I agree that for the HRE a special CB would be appropriate. A Catholic Byzantium would focus on co-opting them, though a mixture of entering the Empire and Diplomatic bonuses, and the would-be-cool-but-don't-think-it-can-be-scripted ability to always win the Curia election. So in essence by default you're abolishing them, but as a Catholic you can co-opt them.