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Left 4 Dead 2 >  Workshop > ChimiChamo (very festive)'s Workshop > Watered Down > Discussions
Watered Down
Description Discussions2 Comments104 Change Notes
Nuclearstomp 23 Mar, 2023 @ 2:57pm
Watered Down issues / feedback from Nuclearstomp
This is a decent but flawed map. Here's a list of issues I compiled while I was playing.

**THIS CONTAINS SOME MILD SPOILERS FOR THE MAP SO DON'T READ THIS IF YOU WANT TO PLAY IT BLIND**

Map 1 - Way too short, zombies sometimes get stuck behind walls, FPS issues in buildings. Zombies spawned nowhere near the crescendo event when we started it. I think the event would work better if it was at the end of the map near the plane rather than so close to the start.

Map 2 - The Gascan event is probably my least favorite part of the campaign. It's simultaneously frustrating to get the cans and bring them back and also very easy because barely any infected spawn. I would suggest slightly increasing the amount of infected and lowering the number of required cans. In singleplayer it's 9 but I honestly think it should be lower. Maybe like 5 or 6. Also there really shouldn't be a container of infinite pills here in my opinion, too much free healing.

The map also had a tank and two witches all in very confined spaces in places where there was constant horde.

Also, the map has way too many crescendo events. The first one could probably be cut and just be a normal button though it staying the way it is would probably be fine if the gascan event was changed up a little bit.

Map 3 - Throwing a pipe bomb caused the zombies to glitch out the bathroom stalls, and it's possible to open up a stall and trap yourself on the door if you stand in front of it.

At the start of the map it's not clear enough (I don't use the game director and it didn't help me when I did) where the button is or that you need to break it open.

In the map there's an invincible door that kills tank / witch if they spawn behind it, which happened to a witch for me.

The map is very short but still crams in a bunch of event, one at the start and end and the pipes.

The pipes don't give you an indication they need to be avoided until you're literally standing right next to them, making it very unlikely you will actually avoid them. I think the amount of events would be ok if the pipe room was bigger and more complex and the level was longer so they don't all happen within a minute or two of each other.

Map 4 - Bots won't grab kits in saferoom. Two Tanks in the second wave is completely unnecessary for this kind of finale. There's too much water that you HAVE to push through for it to be fair to the player and molotovs are practically useless here, so one tank would've been more than enough.

All Maps - Many rooms are too dark to see in at all without the flashlight, making traversing them frustrating. Map's 2, 3 and the start of Map 4 all look very similar. Tanks / Witches occasionally spawn in tight corridors where it's hard to deal witht hem. Bots very rarely had some problems with navigation or grabbing items.

I don't want to give only negatives on the map so I'm going to include some stuff that I liked as well.

1. The funny infected stuff. Some of it was distracting but I will admit it was amusing and it got a laugh out of me. Especially the fake witch.
2. The levels at least look nice and make sense for the most part. It's a bit repetitive and some FPS issues / lighting problems need to be fixed but it's very pleasant on the eyes. Looks like one of those liminal garry's mod maps and I kind of dig the aesthetic.
3. The saferoom fake-out in Map 3 was cool, I liked that a lot.
4. The finale isn't anything amazing but I enjoyed it. (When the bots weren't being bad and getting me killed.)
5. The map layouts themselves are all done fairly well.

And that's all my feedback on the campaign. For a first map it was good so don't feel too discouraged if some people have a negative opinion of the campaign.


Edit: It says in the change-logs that the amount of scavenge cans was reduce but I still had 9 when playing solo. Though it might be because I was hosting a local server rather than playing in single-player specifically.
Last edited by Nuclearstomp; 23 Mar, 2023 @ 3:08pm
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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
Nuclearstomp 23 Mar, 2023 @ 3:04pm 
Oh sorry I forgot one more thing, the vent "maze" in Map 2 is mostly just a time waster. Infected don't spawn in there so it's just a slog to get through. It would probably be more fun if the vents where big enough that they could just be walked through normally or if there were more rooms to at least stop at rather than constantly crouching through vents.
Last edited by Nuclearstomp; 23 Mar, 2023 @ 3:09pm
#1
Nuclearstomp 23 Mar, 2023 @ 5:47pm 
I played the campaign again, this time on expert and I ran into more issues than I did last time so I wanted to make some corrections.

Map 1: The infinite hordes are far too powerful on expert. Also, I much prefer the alternate route with the garage door event, but I honestly think the level would be better if both routes were combined with the infinite hordes being replaced by a holdout event at the end.

Map 2: Tank is way way too strong on this map above advanced. Maybe if it only appeared in the gas can event it would be fair but the other parts of the map are too claustrophobic and small for a tank. Also, the vents kill it. The vents are still a big pain, especially if a horde spawns.

The grenade launcher crescendo should probably be removed. It's very unnecessary, easy to trigger, and doesn't make much sense. Also the Grenade Launcher is relatively useless here because of the close quarters and the high chance of setting off a gas can. I would encourage you to replace it with a chainsaw or M60. Honestly, moving it downstairs and putting some other supplies in it would be neat because it becomes much more of a risk vs reward thing.

As for the gas cans getting the cans was easy because the commons would spawn under the ladder for progression meaning there were very few common running around downstairs. However specials would constantly spawn in groups near the generator meaning they would constantly down or grab people any time we would pass by which was frustrating.

Also I still think infinite pills is a bit much, just a couple would be good if the horde was still relatively small. I will say though that getting cans still took a while but was more manageable with human allies than bots.

Lastly, if you choose not to remove it, the generator at the start of the map should start a holdout instead of an infinite horde. The infinite horde there is a nightmare, especially if anyone goes down, and I think a holdout would be a little more fair.

That's all I have to say since we couldn't finish Map 2 all the way through due to the difficulty. I still think Map 3 needs to remove a crescendo event at the start and change the pipe room. Maybe instead of big pipes you need to carefully walk past, make a big room and have colored pipes that you can't shoot or touch.
#2
ChimiChamo (very festive)  [developer] 23 Mar, 2023 @ 5:55pm 
Appreciate the feedback. I will do nothing with most of it because I’m lazy but it’s good to know
#3
Nuclearstomp 23 Mar, 2023 @ 5:57pm 
Originally posted by ChimiChamo:
Appreciate the feedback. I will do nothing with most of it because I’m lazy but it’s good to know
:steamthumbsup::happystar2022:
#4
Yakuza Merkitzi 23 Mar, 2023 @ 6:03pm 
Originally posted by Nuclearstomp:
This is a decent but flawed map. Here's a list of issues I compiled while I was playing.

**THIS CONTAINS SOME MILD SPOILERS FOR THE MAP SO DON'T READ THIS IF YOU WANT TO PLAY IT BLIND**

Map 1 - Way too short, zombies sometimes get stuck behind walls, FPS issues in buildings. Zombies spawned nowhere near the crescendo event when we started it. I think the event would work better if it was at the end of the map near the plane rather than so close to the start.

Map 2 - The Gascan event is probably my least favorite part of the campaign. It's simultaneously frustrating to get the cans and bring them back and also very easy because barely any infected spawn. I would suggest slightly increasing the amount of infected and lowering the number of required cans. In singleplayer it's 9 but I honestly think it should be lower. Maybe like 5 or 6. Also there really shouldn't be a container of infinite pills here in my opinion, too much free healing.

The map also had a tank and two witches all in very confined spaces in places where there was constant horde.

Also, the map has way too many crescendo events. The first one could probably be cut and just be a normal button though it staying the way it is would probably be fine if the gascan event was changed up a little bit.

Map 3 - Throwing a pipe bomb caused the zombies to glitch out the bathroom stalls, and it's possible to open up a stall and trap yourself on the door if you stand in front of it.

At the start of the map it's not clear enough (I don't use the game director and it didn't help me when I did) where the button is or that you need to break it open.

In the map there's an invincible door that kills tank / witch if they spawn behind it, which happened to a witch for me.

The map is very short but still crams in a bunch of event, one at the start and end and the pipes.

The pipes don't give you an indication they need to be avoided until you're literally standing right next to them, making it very unlikely you will actually avoid them. I think the amount of events would be ok if the pipe room was bigger and more complex and the level was longer so they don't all happen within a minute or two of each other.

Map 4 - Bots won't grab kits in saferoom. Two Tanks in the second wave is completely unnecessary for this kind of finale. There's too much water that you HAVE to push through for it to be fair to the player and molotovs are practically useless here, so one tank would've been more than enough.

All Maps - Many rooms are too dark to see in at all without the flashlight, making traversing them frustrating. Map's 2, 3 and the start of Map 4 all look very similar. Tanks / Witches occasionally spawn in tight corridors where it's hard to deal witht hem. Bots very rarely had some problems with navigation or grabbing items.

I don't want to give only negatives on the map so I'm going to include some stuff that I liked as well.

1. The funny infected stuff. Some of it was distracting but I will admit it was amusing and it got a laugh out of me. Especially the fake witch.
2. The levels at least look nice and make sense for the most part. It's a bit repetitive and some FPS issues / lighting problems need to be fixed but it's very pleasant on the eyes. Looks like one of those liminal garry's mod maps and I kind of dig the aesthetic.
3. The saferoom fake-out in Map 3 was cool, I liked that a lot.
4. The finale isn't anything amazing but I enjoyed it. (When the bots weren't being bad and getting me killed.)
5. The map layouts themselves are all done fairly well.

And that's all my feedback on the campaign. For a first map it was good so don't feel too discouraged if some people have a negative opinion of the campaign.


Edit: It says in the change-logs that the amount of scavenge cans was reduce but I still had 9 when playing solo. Though it might be because I was hosting a local server rather than playing in single-player specifically.

Yea, i can agree that it looked like those Liminal Space maps you'd see on Gmod sometimes. Liminal Space campaigns is something i'd like to see more of, especially ones based after pictures on the internet.
Last edited by Yakuza Merkitzi; 23 Mar, 2023 @ 6:11pm
#5
okkg 25 Nov, 2023 @ 12:47am 
dont trust nuclear, he goes to sleep when hosting 4 sided coin
#6
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