Store Page
Slay the Spire
All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos Workshop News Guides Reviews

Slay the Spire

Store Page
Slay the Spire >  Workshop > Ithilian's Workshop > The Abyssal > Discussions
The Abyssal
Description Discussions2 Comments58 Change Notes
Ithilian  [developer] 30 Jan, 2023 @ 5:28pm
Balance Feedback
If you have feedback on balance post it here. All feedback is greatly appreciated, and feel free to elaborate on what changes you think are needed.

Note that I have tried to balance this character to be similar power to the base characters.

Here are some additional rules of thumb that I use when balancing, which may be a helpful way to think about it:

TL;DR consider why/when it's too strong/weak

  • Cards that are rarely picked should be few, not but not non-existant. If you see a card and you're like "wow, this card is not good, I'm not taking it", consider whether it has a niche application (like it is an okay early pick common, or it combos with something). Cards I think of in this category are Grand Finale, Iron Wave, and Reprogram, for example.
  • Strong two component combos are fine, insane combos should be 3 components or difficult to assemble. If you encounter a particular synergy or combo that feels really strong, just consider its strength relative to a) its difficulty to encounter in a run, and b) its difficulty to assemble in a given fight.
  • If a card feels too strong/weak, consider what part of the run you are in. Well designed cards (IMO) can be strong early and weak later or vica-versa, but if they are strong/weak at all parts of the run, that may be an issue. For example, really strong non-attack cards that you want should feel like you are paying health for taking it in act 1.
  • Character weaknesses are good, as long as they can be overcome. For example, Silent has trouble killing Slime Boss, such that if you have a Slime Boss run, you have to be thinking about how you solve that problem at every shop/card reward screen. That makes for some pretty cool gameplay because it changes how you enter act 2, which adds variety to the game. It is much more of a problem when a character doesn't have weaknesses (I don't want to speak negatively about the disabled, but there's a certain base character that has this problem).
  • If a character has a particular weakness (like a specific boss/elite fight, or a particular act), there should be multiple ways to shore up that weakness. If you find yourself saying something like "Hexaghots? well I hope I find Bolster Crew", then that's probably a balancing opportunity.

All that being said, feel free to give feedback in whatever format you'd like!
Last edited by Ithilian; 31 Jan, 2023 @ 4:58am
< >
Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
Osprey 2 Feb, 2023 @ 10:15am 
Curious as to the purpose of volatile ink? Isn't it a pure downside or am I missing some strong interaction somewhere?
#1
Ithilian  [developer] 2 Feb, 2023 @ 2:54pm 
Originally posted by Osprey:
Curious as to the purpose of volatile ink? Isn't it a pure downside or am I missing some strong interaction somewhere?
It is specifically for multi attack enemies, and especially meant to be a Heart solution. For instance, if the heart attacks you for 3x15 on turn 2, then 3 ink with Volatile Ink prevents all of that and deals 45 back to the heart. Also good against awakened one, since it attacks every turn and frequently hits for 4xsomthing. Definitely a niche card for specific fights.
#2
Zu 5 Feb, 2023 @ 5:31pm 
Unstable formula:

Neat that it scales exponentially, but this fundamentally undermines the appeal of volatile ink since you can also permanently lower strength by mixing corrupt artifact with chain shot.

I did read your bullet points but even if this card were not currently an issue, it limits design space in that you need to be twice as careful with cards like dark experiment or dark plans, which is a shame since they reward hard work in their own right.

Perhaps you're ok with this, but stalling the heart fight indefinitely is questionable to me:
https://i.imgur.com/e4nwrEU.png

If you feel like addressing this, I'd say a good place to start is to reward the player with ink for doing something well that's unrelated to ink, so at least formula doesn't skyrocket off itself.
#3
Ithilian  [developer] 6 Feb, 2023 @ 6:06am 
Originally posted by Zu:
Unstable formula:

Neat that it scales exponentially, but this fundamentally undermines the appeal of volatile ink since you can also permanently lower strength by mixing corrupt artifact with chain shot.

I did read your bullet points but even if this card were not currently an issue, it limits design space in that you need to be twice as careful with cards like dark experiment or dark plans, which is a shame since they reward hard work in their own right.

Perhaps you're ok with this, but stalling the heart fight indefinitely is questionable to me:
https://i.imgur.com/e4nwrEU.png

If you feel like addressing this, I'd say a good place to start is to reward the player with ink for doing something well that's unrelated to ink, so at least formula doesn't skyrocket off itself.
Thanks for your feedback on this! This was a card I was a little unsure of and haven't had a chance to playtest it significantly. I agree stalling the heart fight indefinitely is not good, and also not in-line with the intent of that fight. Given these points here I will definitely redesign this card
#4
Sagil 24 Feb, 2023 @ 5:18pm 
1) Volatile Ink seems too situational to be worth adding it to your deck. I'd suggest changing the effect so that ink reduction is simply delayed until end of turn - i.e. only occurs if the enemy attacks, and then only for that amount. If that seems too strong, limit the maximum amount delayed each round to some value (multiple volatile inks could be stacked to increase that amount).

2) Lure cards are a cool mechanic, but currently pointless as getting a rare card pick can take a long time, and then you have to give up that pick - just not worth the trouble. Instead how about giving the associated card a 33% chance to appear in normal combat rewards and 50% in elite combat rewards?
Last edited by Sagil; 24 Feb, 2023 @ 5:48pm
#5
DMRexia 15 Jul @ 10:33am 
Hello!

Well done on the mod, this character is great. I just finished my very first run with it (note that I have over 830 hours of gameplay, so I know the game pretty well).

Cannon mechanic was very fun, I will try to use it more in my next run. First run always ends up with a messy deck because we don,t know the cards yet.

Ink is nice too. Lure is Awesome!

Balance wise, the cannons or the inks by themselves are strong. Putting them together makes it really bad ass. But then you also have the Storm and Bury mechanic, making the Beach Friends way too powerful in my experience. Now I need to climb up Ascension to see how it will go from there, but I believe there might too many mechanics for the same character. I would suggest you might create another character : The Pirate (or the Corsair) to use the Bury / Dig mechanics, and keep Ink, cannonball and Lure for the Abyssal. We never have too many characters for this game! (I know this is work, loads of it, but I do not know your level of dedication for modding, so, maybe!)

I will try to edit this review when I reach higher Ascension levels to see if new observations arise. I am sure the new relics (I have encountered none in my first run, but I play with many mods, which makes the rotation larger and the odds of having a specific relic go down a bit)

I saw people complaining about the art : I don't care. It would piss me if this was a purchasable product, but it is free for use.

Thank you for the time conceiving this mod and making me add more hours to my favourite game!
Last edited by DMRexia; 15 Jul @ 10:34am
#6
< >
Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
Per page: 1530 50