Total War: WARHAMMER III

Total War: WARHAMMER III

Unit Caps for All (Updated for 4.2) (Mod for Sale)
Vacuity  [developer] 30 Sep, 2022 @ 8:05am
Balancing Discussion
Please use this space to discuss the balancing of the mod. Try to persuade me why changes should be made. Save games of campaigns in progress are gold for me as it's so time-consuming to run campaigns just to test balance.

How the cap system works

Almost all races have all their units capped except for one or more absolutely core uncapped unit types. Which units are left uncapped varies depending on the race.

For capped units, the cap is currently derived from four sources:
  1. A base cap. All units with a recruitment cost ≤950 have a base cap of between 1 and 4. This cap is inverse to recruitment cost. Dwarf infantry units with a recruitment cost ≤950 have a base cap of between 2 and 8, again inverse to recruitment cost.
  2. A bonus cap from Legendary Lords. Each Legendary Lord brings with them a small bonus cap to one or a few units associated with the lord.
  3. Caps from recruitment buildings. These caps are derived from the weight of all the units recruitable from the building at that level. These caps also account for (mostly not implemented at the time of writing) hero caps, and other campaign effects.
  4. Caps from other buildings. Buildings such as landmarks, ports, trade resources, and others, all offer opportunities for targeted, thematic caps to specific units. Caps from landmark buildings are often quite high. Caps from other buildings are typically very limited.
I may or may not add caps from these sources in the future:
  • Red line lord skills.
  • Technologies.

Caps from buildings are calculated on a per-building basis. This means that the player/AI gets a nominally equivalent return from any building of a given tier, no matter how many units are recruitable from it. For example, the Reiksfort, a T3 building, offers recruitment of a single, quite powerful, cavalry unit. The Empire Stables offers recruitment of a wide selection of mounted units at T3, most of which are comparatively less powerful. This can only be balanced by giving higher caps to the Reiksguard from the Reiksfort than to any single unit from the Stables, but giving an overall higher unit cap from the Stables than from the Reiksfort. The Reiksfort gives a medium number of good cavalry, the Stables offers a collection of small caps of weaker units, that add up to an overall larger number of units, hopefully of roughly equivalent worth to the Reiksguard. Which building will be of more use to the player depends on the difficulty level, and the player's needs. A common question is why the caps for unit X are so low, but the caps for unit Y are so much higher, and the answer is invariably that unit X is sharing a recruitment building with multiple other units, while unit Y is alone, or shares the building with only a very small number of other units.

The cap, and the mod as a whole, is intended to be as minimal as possible, change as few things as possible, create as few incompatibilities as possible, while remaining functional, thematic, and fun. This means that some compromises are made, and many opportunities to make the mod more awesome are simply not touched because they are not core to the unit cap, and would create further incompatibilities.

The spreadsheet I use for calculating caps can be viewed here.[docs.google.com]

How the allied recruitment (outpost) cap system works

For capped units, the cap for recruiting allied units is derived from two sources
  1. A base cap. This is the base cap above and is per unit-type, not per allied faction. For example, Skaven warp grinders have a base cap of 2. This applies whether you have one, two, five, or zero (if you're a Skaven faction yourself) skaven allies.
  2. A cap from the constructed outpost. A tier 1 outpost gives a cap of +1 to T1, T2, & T3 units. A tier 2 outpost gives a cap of +2 to T1, T2, & T3 units, and a cap of +1 to T4 & T5 units. A tier 3 outpost gives a cap of +3 to T1, T2, & T3 units, and +2 to T4 &T5 units.
  3. Wood Elf unit caps are generated slightly differently as a comparative test to see what works better. A tier 1 outpost gives a cap of +1 to T1 & T2 units. A tier 2 outpost gives a cap of +2 to T1 & T2, and a cap of +1 to T3 & T4 units. A tier 3 outpost gives a cap of +3 to T1 & T2 units, and +2 to T3 &T4 units, and +1 to T5 units.

Constructive feedback on which of these models of cap provision is better is welcome.

This makes outposts quite useful even for factions of the same race, and allows relatively generous access to some of the toys available from other races. Because it's fun.
Last edited by Vacuity; 23 Jun, 2023 @ 4:47am
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Showing 1-15 of 71 comments
steelwarrior77 30 Sep, 2022 @ 12:34pm 
Could you make a submod with 3x limits - as I play with 3x as many armies....
steelwarrior77 30 Sep, 2022 @ 2:48pm 
Could normal sword units with shields for the Empire be unlimited?
steelwarrior77 30 Sep, 2022 @ 2:52pm 
And double the limit of Empire artillery...
Vacuity  [developer] 30 Sep, 2022 @ 5:59pm 
a submod with 3x limits
I think you'd be better off with a unit cap mod designed for that balance from the ground up.
sword units with shields for the Empire be unlimited
...
double the limit of Empire artillery
You seem to have missed the first line: persuade me. Why should this be done?
Sovereign246 30 Sep, 2022 @ 6:09pm 
If i may steelwarrior part of the fun of this mod is your other armies having to make do or spreading your elite stuff more evenly.

Further having the shielded variant capped means the unshielded ones actually see use.
Citrus 30 Sep, 2022 @ 6:23pm 
I'm curious about the reasoning for some of the lord effect capacity increases, both thematically and with regard to lord bonuses:

Volkmar increases the capacity of spearmen shields, halberdiers, and crossbowmen, but his faction and lord effects are for flagellants, empire knights, and free company militia.

Franz increases the capacity of empire knights, but not reiksguard.

Orion increases the capacity of glade riders, but not wild riders.
Vacuity  [developer] 30 Sep, 2022 @ 7:32pm 
A lot of stuff like this is legacy stuff that never got updated because no one reported it, and I never actually got to play with the lords because I spent my time making submods I was never going to use myself, leaving me no time for playing. This is one of the reasons I'm really hoping people will help out making submods so that I have time to actually play, and make the mod fundamentally better, rather than just bigger with submods.

I'll make changes to these three for the next release. Let me know if you find others, and thanks for the reports.
Last edited by Vacuity; 30 Sep, 2022 @ 7:34pm
kyle 30 Sep, 2022 @ 9:26pm 
Thank you immensely for porting this mod over! It was a favorite in WH2 and I'm glad to see it back. I might recommend revisiting some of the unique buildings for Kislev next time you're doing a pass on them - Bokha Palace providing some tzar/ice guard cap or the Temple of Ursun providing some elemental bears or bear cav would be a nice fit. Bokha Palace in particular tends to function as a replacement for the tzar and ice guard training buildings, so it would be nice to maintain that function.
mono no aware 1 Oct, 2022 @ 8:56am 
I think Azhag should get Big 'Uns and Boar Boy Big 'Uns capacity over Rogue Idol capacity other than that I think the Greenskin faction leaders are all looking okay.
SassyAsses 1 Oct, 2022 @ 2:54pm 
Kislev doesn't get Tzar/Ice Guard unit cap form the Bokha Palace I/II. Is this an oversight?
The landmarks in Praag also doesn't give unit cap to Grypon Legion or Armoured Cossars/Streltsi
EDIT: Also, a base value of 0 for units is a bad idea i think. I means that if the player/AI gets a non standard way to recruit them (Outpost, Landmarks, etc) that you haven't explicitly taken into account they will be unable to recruit any. I have this issue now. I have the Bokha Palace which gives access to Tzar Guard but i cannot recruit them
Last edited by SassyAsses; 1 Oct, 2022 @ 3:41pm
Vacuity  [developer] 1 Oct, 2022 @ 6:46pm 
Huh. Look at that. The Bokha Palace is marked on the spreadsheet, but I never got around to working out the relevant values and caps for it. Doing now. There's a genuine, honest-to-Gork bug reported elsewhere, so this'll be bundled with that fix shortly.

And... looking at CA's original files, I remember why this got put off 'til Later™: whoever wrote the internal names for Kislev's special buildings didn't believe in clarity. How the heck is anyone supposed to understand what's what there?

@mono no aware
I'm not aware of any reason Azhag should have Big 'Un caps instead of Rogue Idols, so, as the first line says: "persuade me".

@SassyAsses
Just tell me clearly which building should have which caps (and possibly why, if it's not absolutely obvious) with enough detail that I can track it down in the internal files (even with someone at CA doing a less that stellar job of naming buildings internally), and it'll get added promptly.
mono no aware 2 Oct, 2022 @ 12:27am 
Unlike the other greenskin lords and their bonus unit caps, azhag's unique skill tree has no synergy whatsoever with Rogue Idols compared to Big 'Uns (foot & boar boy version) which he gives a bunch of bonuses like frenzy and vanguard deployment to.
Vacuity  [developer] 2 Oct, 2022 @ 1:02am 
I thought those bonuses were for any and all orcs, savage, big or regular. Am I misremembering? I specifically didn't want to give him bonuses to every orc unit, and Rogue Idolz are super fun. I mean, I suppose he might do better with bonus caps for some orc units of some kind, but... the rogue idolz...
mono no aware 2 Oct, 2022 @ 1:28am 
Oh you are correct, it is bonuses to any and all orcs which makes orc caps even more synergistic than rogue idol ones? lol, though I do agree that rogue idols are really cool. anyway, was just my two cents. I mean the longer I play my gs campaign the more I'll probably agree with you about the rogue idol over the orc stuff
Vacuity  [developer] 2 Oct, 2022 @ 6:28am 
To be clear, I am happy to have the discussion: my disagreement isn't intended to shut you down.
That said: I still kinda disagree.
Azhag does offer bonuses to any and all orc units, agreed, and there's a good argument for picking *something* out of that broad tranch of units, but which ones? Not savage orcs, as that's definitely Wurrzag's thing.
From the other point of view, Rogue Idolz are in a poor place in some ways. As a DLC unit, the only lord that could specifically buff them without having people complain is... Grom. Grom's already let me down by not buffing trolls, which I found very disappointing thematically, and he's not going to buff Rogue Idolz in addition to pump wagons.
So who could give extra caps to these wonderful units? Nobody? Why not the most mystical of Orc legendary lords? Azhag!
So, I see your point. You're not wrong. But I don't think it's a very strong argument seeing how it's *all orcs*, and I think Rogue Idolz are a much more interesting match for a more mystical-themed Orc lord. Again, persuade me. (I was previously persuaded to switch from trolls to pump wagons for Grom, so this is not an impossible ask)
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