#BackTheHorns!

#BackTheHorns!

#BackTheHorns!

#BackTheHorns!

#BackTheHorns!

Technically, #BringBackTheHorns! would work better, but whatever;
I suppose the general gist of this post is asking the creator to put the V1 of this item back onto the Workshop. I think that's a very fair request, however it should be noted that the results from doing so, probably won't be satisfactory for you. To put it simply, V1 was already denied by DE and posting it back onto the Workshop would just be for archive purposes, not for re-submission. It just can't be accepted again.
But in regards to everything, I'm not sure where to start. I'm seeing a lot of antagonism towards DE for accepting some items but not others, and how apparently TennoGen artists are greatly oppressed in regards to creative freedom... and I'm confused on what you're trying to get at with these claims. Especially when there's a lot of misunderstanding of how TennoGen works.

Sorry if I sound like I am taking this seriously or anything. I'm just having fun with the conversation, and I tend to type a lot. I mean, at the end of the day, we're talking about cool-looking virtual items.

"From the DE side, it is simply ridiculous to talk about the discrepancy of the helmet with the original design of the Warframe after they accepted the following works, which also did not correspond to the original design of the Warframe"
Wait hold on, first off, when did DE state that horns did not correspond in Wisp design? You even show a Wisp helmet later that features a pair of horns, so it's not exactly something new for her at all. Second, what exactly does the underlined mean? Are we talking about theme? Or general shape and design of a Warframe? I'm pretty confused, because it feels like trying to extrapolate a claim that DE never made. Oh and by the way, not sure why you included a Syandana in your list.
"There are a lot of helmets with horns for Warframes that didn't have them!"
Yes... but there's two things to note there. Not only are those horns different sizes and shapes (in fact, one could argue that the Astrea skin has fins, not horns), but when did DE say you couldn't have horns in your Warframe design? Is this single item being changed evidence of this sudden design shift? Even then, the helmet still technically has horns so... what exactly is being argued?
"I have already seen a helmet with horns before, but it was not made at a professional level and therefore did not interest people."
Whether or not an item was popular doesn't dictate an item getting accepted, DE's own standards and guidelines do. You may disagree with them, and that's fine, but that's how TennoGen has essentially worked for a long time.
"Without a doubt, the horns from version 2.0 look more harmonious with the general changes of the Wisp body, but that is why this skin loses its uniqueness. There is already a helmet with similar horns and it has been added to the game."
To be fair, I can partially agree with this. The item does lose some steam now that it shares one design aspect similarly to another item, but that's it. Everything else in regards to those items are extremely different, even to how the horns on each are oriented and placed.
"Down with the oppression of the creators of TennoGen. Down with the oppression of creativity."
You know, I don't want to use the whole "you have to be a chef to complain about food argument", especially considering I'm neither a chef nor TennoGen artist, but this feels like complaining for someone who isn't. I rarely see artists complain about denied items or feedback, and the only recent example I can remember was a misunderstanding in regards to a statement that DE didn't even make (I can get more into detail about that if you want).

#BackTheHorns!

Come on, DE... You accepted a couple horrible deluxe designs to your roaster that didn't fit their respective warframes without a flinch... Why a pair of mighty horns on Wisp can't be a thing? Perhaps because the design overhall look a lot better than any deluxe you could do to her?

Jokes and rants aside, may I suggest doing hellboy-like horns? You know, the flat ones? (altough not making them that flat). Perhaps that could help the design a little to recover it's previous glory?

#BackTheHorns

I can understand if you don't want to continue this conversation and stretch this thread out to 20 pages or whatever, that's fine. But I just want to end this by pointing out this main contention I have:
I'm not sure there's anything wrong with saying: " Hey, this skin was really good with horns, please reconsider your decision and make it look like the helmet of the old one, I don't like what I see now."
Now look, I agree with this. By itself, this is just a subjective view and opinion on the skin. And honestly, if this thread opened with essentially just this and the hashtag, then whatever. Fine. But with the addition of certain comments like "down with the oppression of creativity" and "this skin is an unsuccessful attempt to appease DE", it makes me wonder; how is this meant to appeal to the artist? Like for example this statement:
I meant that the horns version 1.0 were unique and in appearance they did not have similar products. It was like a fresh breath of air after more or less similar skins. Now these "horns" are made in a style that already exists, some call them "feet on the head". There is nothing creative in this, because such an item is already available in the game. Wisp has few skins, and therefore such a helmet is especially distressing.
Not only was this response to a question that wasn't answered (which was: when did DE say you couldn't use horns in a Warframe design?), but to me, this feels like a contradiction to wanting to appeal to the author. Especially saying "There is nothing creative in this". I'm not trying to play the whole "you have to be nice" card, but if I were the artist reading this, I would feel indifferent towards your proposed goal due to the seeming dismissal of effort put behind the design. You may have not intended for that, but I'm not sure how else to interpret it. Furthermore, I'm not sure why you keep conflating back and forth between this version not having horns or not. It does, it's just stylized in a certain way. And as I have said before, and as the artist has said before, they could not simply use the same size and design for them as the previous version. And finally, once again, yes; the horn design is similar to another item that exists in the game, but to completely dismiss either helmets differences between each other, seems fallacious to me.

At the end of the day, I understand and respect your main message. You simply want the old version of this skin back onto the Workshop, and for the artist to reconsider their design. I think there is nothing wrong with that. But perhaps, it would have been more effective to cut down on the extensive argumentation and grandstanding in relation to fighting for the creativity of TennoGen artists. It just all feels so unnecessary, especially when the main statement is so simple and practically agreeable.

Originally posted by XN0012:

Originally posted by Scruffel:

I can understand if you don't want to continue this conversation and stretch this thread out to 20 pages or whatever, that's fine. But I just want to end this by pointing out this main contention I have:
I'm not sure there's anything wrong with saying: " Hey, this skin was really good with horns, please reconsider your decision and make it look like the helmet of the old one, I don't like what I see now."
Now look, I agree with this. By itself, this is just a subjective view and opinion on the skin. And honestly, if this thread opened with essentially just this and the hashtag, then whatever. Fine. But with the addition of certain comments like "down with the oppression of creativity" and "this skin is an unsuccessful attempt to appease DE", it makes me wonder; how is this meant to appeal to the artist? Like for example this statement:
I meant that the horns version 1.0 were unique and in appearance they did not have similar products. It was like a fresh breath of air after more or less similar skins. Now these "horns" are made in a style that already exists, some call them "feet on the head". There is nothing creative in this, because such an item is already available in the game. Wisp has few skins, and therefore such a helmet is especially distressing.
Not only was this response to a question that wasn't answered (which was: when did DE say you couldn't use horns in a Warframe design?), but to me, this feels like a contradiction to wanting to appeal to the author. Especially saying "There is nothing creative in this". I'm not trying to play the whole "you have to be nice" card, but if I were the artist reading this, I would feel indifferent towards your proposed goal due to the seeming dismissal of effort put behind the design. You may have not intended for that, but I'm not sure how else to interpret it. Furthermore, I'm not sure why you keep conflating back and forth between this version not having horns or not. It does, it's just stylized in a certain way. And as I have said before, and as the artist has said before, they could not simply use the same size and design for them as the previous version. And finally, once again, yes; the horn design is similar to another item that exists in the game, but to completely dismiss either helmets differences between each other, seems fallacious to me.

At the end of the day, I understand and respect your main message. You simply want the old version of this skin back onto the Workshop, and for the artist to reconsider their design. I think there is nothing wrong with that. But perhaps, it would have been more effective to cut down on the extensive argumentation and grandstanding in relation to fighting for the creativity of TennoGen artists. It just all feels so unnecessary, especially when the main statement is so simple and practically agreeable.

In fact, you entered into a discussion with me because of the same personal subjective opinion and nothing more. You are not an author or an artist, and you can only assume. I have listened to you, but I dare say that you say this because you are not more familiar with this creator. This explains a lot.

You're right about something. I can explain why my original post was not short with only one message: I have been watching the works of TennoGen for a long time and I just don't like the attitude of DE and some authors to their products. As a consumer, I have every right to speak out. You are also right that I should have been softer, but imagine the situation: a lot of people write that they do not like the new versions, but they are completely ignored. Should a public author ignore all these people just because one of them expressed his irritation? I am also sure that I am not the only one. And the situation with this skin is another confirmation of this. You can endure it for a very long time in silence.

In the end, our discussion mainly consisted of the fact that you misunderstood my statements and asked about them. This did not bring anything useful to topic itself.

Thank you for the constructive dialogue.

Okay wait, sorry for responding, but I need to clarify a couple of things quickly:
First, are you a TennoGen creator? You said I inaccurately assumed your experience of being one, and you repeat that I am not one (which is true). I'm just wondering because I can't check to see if you have submitted anything (since your profile is private).
Second, I actually know plenty of this creator and their past works. And I would say about TennoGen in general. I guess I don't have much of a negative slant towards it, and tend to perceive things from a perspective between DE and the artists.
Third, in regards to your statements regarding the consumers voice and whether or not the creator should listen to it, I'm going to be blunt about this; the most important voice is in fact DE's. They are the ultimate decider for what gets accepted, what gets denied, and what feedback should they provide on any given item. While there's nothing wrong with listening to the feedback of the community, I don't think it's necessarily a priority for more prominent creators to follow, especially ones who have already gotten multiple items accepted into the game.
Lastly, while I did ask a lot of questions, they weren't due to misunderstandings rather to clarify statements and claims. And while I don't think I got a complete understanding of everything, I do know your intention behind your post. Again, I would just support the idea of next time: try to keep it simple.

👀

#BackTheHorns!
really like both the skins and hope that one of them gets added. you will have my backing and if it's added i will instantly buy it

#BackTheHorns!

#BackTheHorns