>Building effects are now province-wide, unless otherwise stated in their tooltips. So a building that increases pop growth by 25% or adds +15% workers will work across all pops in the province.

Not sure about this one.

I'd say such buildings would need their effects downscaled so their multiplication is not OP.

On the other hand, different provinces have different number of regions, so different provinces would have different potential with such buildings.

Because of that, I'd suggest to have old system in place, region-wide building buffs.

>New auxiliary system and units. Now they're just recruited normally from the auxiliary building, and require auxiliary troops.

This change I like very much.

>AI uses troops for newly recruited units now, so you can bleed their troops dry and stop them recruiting fresh armies over and over again. They don't use local troops though, they use troops globally from across all their provinces when replenishing (this option can be enabled for human factions too in MCT options).

Good job!

Armies have new stats to play with (which can be turned off via MCT menu if you just want population stuff in your population mod); Morale, fatigue and supplies. The tooltips on these should make them relatively self-explanatory.

Could be very interesting, especially with some racial assymetry.

Originally posted by fan_of_Daniil_Andreev:

Could be very interesting, especially with some racial assymetry.

There is some racial asymmetry right now, I hope to add more once I've tested the feature more thoroughly.

Originally posted by fan_of_Daniil_Andreev:

I'd say such buildings would need their effects downscaled so their multiplication is not OP.

On the other hand, different provinces have different number of regions, so different provinces would have different potential with such buildings.

Because of that, I'd suggest to have old system in place, region-wide building buffs.

The buildings might be OP now, I unno. Haven't tested enough but I can always adjust their numbers down if they're too powerful. But it makes more sense for them to work province-wide because that's how all buidlings work in the vanilla game and I think it's cleaner.

Originally posted by Lorghul:

Originally posted by fan_of_Daniil_Andreev:

Could be very interesting, especially with some racial assymetry.

There is some racial asymmetry right now, I hope to add more once I've tested the feature more thoroughly.

Very cool! I'd say your mod is changing the game on the fundamental and meaningful level, unlike many shallow mechanics from some DLC.

IMHO your mod is very worthy of the price of DLC, especially after it's fully done.

Originally posted by Lorghul:

Originally posted by fan_of_Daniil_Andreev:

I'd say such buildings would need their effects downscaled so their multiplication is not OP.

On the other hand, different provinces have different number of regions, so different provinces would have different potential with such buildings.

Because of that, I'd suggest to have old system in place, region-wide building buffs.

The buildings might be OP now, I unno. Haven't tested enough but I can always adjust their numbers down if they're too powerful. But it makes more sense for them to work province-wide because that's how all buidlings work in the vanilla game and I think it's cleaner.

Well, most provinces are consisting of 3 regions. So the effect for the whole province would be 3x of the singular effect of a single building. So some reduction of the effects would be good in my opinion, like 3x reduction.

And different provinces have different number of regions. A province with 3-4 regions would have 3-4x more effect from those buildings than a province of singular region. That might be interesting, yes, but don't know yet if it would be immersion-breaking.

Btw last games I noticed that food is too easy. I'd suggest reducing food overall somehow by some 10-20% or increasing food consumption by some 10-20%. Maybe some reduction of the public effect bonus % on food would be good.

Started up a new reikland campaign, but after taking a second settlement the population and details panels stopped working. Also started a skaven one to test, and the same thing happens there too after getting a second settlement.
The population one is still there but just shows the name of the settlement and no pops, the details panel is completely gone.
The import/export buttons also disappeared from the ''Provinces'' panel in the top right

If I click on an AI settlement it will still show their population and details, though. No other mods except MCT and UI modding framework are active, not touched any options in MCT either. Reloaded save twice and ended turn a few times, issues persist.

Originally posted by Malevo:

Started up a new reikland campaign, but after taking a second settlement the population and details panels stopped working. Also started a skaven one to test, and the same thing happens there too after getting a second settlement.
The population one is still there but just shows the name of the settlement and no pops, the details panel is completely gone.
The import/export buttons also disappeared from the ''Provinces'' panel in the top right

If I click on an AI settlement it will still show their population and details, though. No other mods except MCT and UI modding framework are active, not touched any options in MCT either. Reloaded save twice and ended turn a few times, issues persist.

I tried the same mod setup (only this mod, ui modding framework and mct:reborn enabled) and couldn't get the same results capturing a settlement as reikland or throt. I tried manually fighting the reikland battle too in case the problem had something to do with transitioning from battle map to campaign map and no such luck.

When I first released the main mod I had someone who had similar-ish issues playing as Kraka Drak, and it turns out they had a mod that got 'stuck' turned on even though he had disabled it in the CA mod manager. Are you using the CA mod manager or Kaedrin's mod manager?

Originally posted by fan_of_Daniil_Andreev:

Well, most provinces are consisting of 3 regions. So the effect for the whole province would be 3x of the singular effect of a single building. So some reduction of the effects would be good in my opinion, like 3x reduction.

And different provinces have different number of regions. A province with 3-4 regions would have 3-4x more effect from those buildings than a province of singular region. That might be interesting, yes, but don't know yet if it would be immersion-breaking.

Btw last games I noticed that food is too easy. I'd suggest reducing food overall somehow by some 10-20% or increasing food consumption by some 10-20%. Maybe some reduction of the public effect bonus % on food would be good.

The worker buildings are crap in the main mod though, I never adjusted their effects up because I knew I was just gonna rework the system.

Food was made a bit easier, but the effect will be magnified if you're playing as elves or dwarfs because they had their numbers reduced. In the main mod elf/dwarfs spawn with 70% the numbers of humans. Now it's 40%. They just have far fewer pops than other races which makes food easy for them. To counter this they have a hard time reaching 100,000 workers which is relatively easy for other races.

Switched over to KMM and it's the same story, i'm afraid. Even deleted both population mods files completely and re-downloaded the beta one but it hasn't helped.

I suspect you're right about some kind of phantom mod mucking things up, so i'll try to totally delete some script heavy ones and see what happens.

Key, so I've playing with the new beta( Empire). Generally awesome stuff, but still I have feedback.

1) Workers. I think a limit of 100k with only negative modifiers is a bad idea. First of all, it kinda doesn't make any sense( province with 200k workers and 100k workers should not have the same economic output). Second( and I understand, this is race specific) but I got my 100k with reikland on turn 4-5. Thus buildings that provide workers are now useless to me, I have my 100k, why bother. I suggest you give some economy( tax, trade) bonuses after 100k, so that a player will be incentivised to build workforce.


2) Dissidents and food. The balance is kinda strange here( and needs tooltips for what hungry levels actually do). Thing is, food provides dissidents and according to the tooltip they in turn provide negative public order. However, my guys are hungry, 60k+ dissidents and I have... -2 public order. I mean, it's like nothing. And I don't know( it doesn't show) does food boost population->troops? If not, no need to care about food.

3) New army mechanics. Did't figure them out properly, tbf. I have seen a fatigue debuff, but only one( whole army is fatigue). Are there more. In general, I think the system might also benefit from +- approach. With low fatigue and moral there are bonuses( I mean leadership would makes sense) with low - negative. Again, to incentivise to balance, but crave for the bonuses ( we all want bonuses, right?) Also, are supplies influenced by food/population?

P.S. Regional troops is a brilliant idea. Now it actually makes sense to build recruitment provinces and specialize them on troop type.

P.P.S. Do orks/undead get more troops as they are swarm factions?

Originally posted by MrWhite:

1) Workers. I think a limit of 100k with only negative modifiers is a bad idea. First of all, it kinda doesn't make any sense( province with 200k workers and 100k workers should not have the same economic output). Second( and I understand, this is race specific) but I got my 100k with reikland on turn 4-5. Thus buildings that provide workers are now useless to me, I have my 100k, why bother. I suggest you give some economy( tax, trade) bonuses after 100k, so that a player will be incentivised to build workforce.

I decided to make the workers only provide penalties and give stronger racial bonuses to compensate. It makes it easier to balance. So you are getting bonuses at higher populations, just not from workers specifically. I also let the player get an easy 100,000k workers in their starting province so it doesn't feel like the mod is kneecapping you out of the gate, but it will become harder to maintain those numbers once you start capturing territory outside of your starting race.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

2) Dissidents and food. The balance is kinda strange here( and needs tooltips for what hungry levels actually do). Thing is, food provides dissidents and according to the tooltip they in turn provide negative public order. However, my guys are hungry, 60k+ dissidents and I have... -2 public order. I mean, it's like nothing. And I don't know( it doesn't show) does food boost population->troops? If not, no need to care about food.

Food primarily impacts population growth additively, it goes;
Abundant +3%
Nourished +1%
Hungry -2%
Famished -4%
Starving -6%

The negative dissidents is a minor component of running out of food, mostly just there because it makes sense. Hungry pops = angry. Dissidents caps out of -5 public order once you reach 100,000 dissidents. I had higher public order penalties in the past but it was really annoying. I maybe need to do more with dissidents in general, like perhaps spawning Wood Elf style intervention armies.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

3) New army mechanics. Did't figure them out properly, tbf. I have seen a fatigue debuff, but only one( whole army is fatigue). Are there more. In general, I think the system might also benefit from +- approach. With low fatigue and moral there are bonuses( I mean leadership would makes sense) with low - negative. Again, to incentivise to balance, but crave for the bonuses ( we all want bonuses, right?) Also, are supplies influenced by food/population?

Fatigue only provides debuffs, morale provides a hefty buff if you get above 75 morale. Supplies are currently just a flat +30 every turn you stay in a home region. You can also recover supplies by raiding on staying in allied territory. I want to do more with supplies eventually.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

P.P.S. Do orks/undead get more troops as they are swarm factions?

Yup, Skaven even moreso.

Thanks for the answer. A few things still, if u don't mind.
1) You said higher population provides bonuses, are there any economic ones? Rn now I saw better troop replenishment, but makes sense to have some for money making provs
2) Troops. What do you think of raising the cap not only with a building, but with some population( or a % increase). I feel it might also help the AI a bit since these guys can forget to build barracks (esp if they have low settlement number, for big empires your AI global recruitment solves the problem).


P.S. I am playing with Empire Heirs and they add regional barracks, so maybe you can make them compatible( if u have time, def not a major thing).

3) I think dissidents should do more. Even -5 PO is kinda nothing in this game( faction specific ofc). Low worker count the economy, so maybe hinder troop replenishment? I mean, as of rn I did not feel any incentive to use force labor/exterminate buttons
4) Ancillaries. Am i correct to understand they are supposed to be you recruited units in the foreign territory until you get you race there?

P.S. I am playing with SFO and ancillaries obv are pretty bad there. So a SFO submod will be needed.
5) Yeah, I feel supplies should be at least food influenced and not just a flat number. Actually, a question if you don't mind. Why did you choose to tie fatigue and supplies together? Wouldn't it make more sense to fatigue reduce after battles/forced marches and work with supplies like a different mechanic( like CA tried in TW3K)?

Originally posted by MrWhite:

1) You said higher population provides bonuses, are there any economic ones? Rn now I saw better troop replenishment, but makes sense to have some for money making provs

Each race has a different bonus. Dwarfs have income as their racial bonus.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

2) Troops. What do you think of raising the cap not only with a building, but with some population( or a % increase). I feel it might also help the AI a bit since these guys can forget to build barracks (esp if they have low settlement number, for big empires your AI global recruitment solves the problem).

That's how it works in the main mod currently, but I don't like it. I'm not fond of mechanics that get phased out of importance as a campaign progresses (replenishment in the base game is a good example of this, where you accumulate so many sources of +replenishment that it only takes a couple turns to full-heal an army by lategame), and that's what having troop cap = population threatens to do. Later on you'll have so much population that you have more troops than you can ever use.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

P.S. I am playing with Empire Heirs and they add regional barracks, so maybe you can make them compatible( if u have time, def not a major thing).

Sure I'll take a look at Empire's Heirs when I get a mo.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

4) Ancillaries. Am i correct to understand they are supposed to be you recruited units in the foreign territory until you get you race there?

Yes. They're not very useful if you try to take them somewhere you don't have that foreign pop, because they won't be able to replenish.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

P.S. I am playing with SFO and ancillaries obv are pretty bad there. So a SFO submod will be needed.

Auxiliaries are already compatible with SFO, don't trust the tooltip of the building. Once you recruit a unit it gets replaced with it's SFO equivalent. Auxiliaries are never going to be amazing troops though because they don't get buffs from skilltrees or tech. Their purpose is strategic.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

5) Yeah, I feel supplies should be at least food influenced and not just a flat number. Actually, a question if you don't mind. Why did you choose to tie fatigue and supplies together? Wouldn't it make more sense to fatigue reduce after battles/forced marches and work with supplies like a different mechanic( like CA tried in TW3K)?

I plan to do more with supplies. This is just a first-pass to make sure it all works ok. I want supplies to impact more things later, fatigue was just the most obvious thing to start with.

Originally posted by Lorghul:

Each race has a different bonus. Dwarfs have income as their racial bonus.

But no general bonuses, right? Like again, for example I am playing as the Empire and my racial bonus is construction. So let's say I have a max level all build non-military province(so i don't care about troops). Why would I need to grow population( after I reached 100k workers)? I may want to grow food and then send to others, but population doesn't influence food( it's the way around). Rn I can think that the only reason for such province to care about population is for migration. Generally I feel that economic provinces should get something (for them) for actually having people and workers there.

Originally posted by Lorghul:

That's how it works in the main mod currently, but I don't like it. I'm not fond of mechanics that get phased out of importance as a campaign progresses (replenishment in the base game is a good example of this, where you accumulate so many sources of +replenishment that it only takes a couple turns to full-heal an army by lategame), and that's what having troop cap = population threatens to do. Later on you'll have so much population that you have more troops than you can ever use.

Fun stuff, after I played some more now I believe you can even lower some numbers a bit. For example, I have a 4 settlement province with two full barracks( so 10k base soldier total cap and 500 turn replenishment) and I already feel that it's impossible to run out of them. And I could still build 2 more barracks...

P.S. External migration. Can you explain a bit how it works? Am I correct to assume that I get tolerated nations and orks/skaven if they live near by? So let's say if as Empire I live near lizardmen I won't get there immigrants, right?

Purged all mods and did a complete reinstall and it still isn't working properly, most up to date version of KMM, mod disabled in CA mod manager, all that stuff but still stops functioning as soon as I take a second settlement.
If I launch the game without this mod active it's listed as unmodded so I don't think anything else could be interfering. I really don't know what else to check, could it be because I don't own the latest DLC?

Originally posted by Malevo:

Purged all mods and did a complete reinstall and it still isn't working properly, most up to date version of KMM, mod disabled in CA mod manager, all that stuff but still stops functioning as soon as I take a second settlement.
If I launch the game without this mod active it's listed as unmodded so I don't think anything else could be interfering. I really don't know what else to check, could it be because I don't own the latest DLC?

I tried disabling the twisted and twilight dlc and doing the same empire test and it works fine on my end.

When you say you purged all mods, did you delete them from both "steamapps\common\Total War WARHAMMER II\data" and "steamapps\workshop\content\594570" folders? Two copies of any given mod and stored in both locations.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

But no general bonuses, right? Like again, for example I am playing as the Empire and my racial bonus is construction. So let's say I have a max level all build non-military province(so i don't care about troops). Why would I need to grow population( after I reached 100k workers)? I may want to grow food and then send to others, but population doesn't influence food( it's the way around). Rn I can think that the only reason for such province to care about population is for migration. Generally I feel that economic provinces should get something (for them) for actually having people and workers there.

I see what you're saying, yeah there's not much point in having workers above 100k. I'm just hesitant to add bonuses because I find the base game can already be a bit easy even on highest difficulty settings and I don't want to compound the issue.

Then there's Skaven, who are OP in base game, even more OP in this mod, and easily hit the 100k worker marker. Bonuses past 100k will make them even worse. I probably need to add something but I'm not sure what.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

Fun stuff, after I played some more now I believe you can even lower some numbers a bit. For example, I have a 4 settlement province with two full barracks( so 10k base soldier total cap and 500 turn replenishment) and I already feel that it's impossible to run out of them. And I could still build 2 more barracks...

Yeah that's probably right, I haven't tested numbers barely at all except for Dark Elves so far. Good to know, I can pare it down a little.

Originally posted by MrWhite:

P.S. External migration. Can you explain a bit how it works? Am I correct to assume that I get tolerated nations and orks/skaven if they live near by? So let's say if as Empire I live near lizardmen I won't get there immigrants, right?

Migration doesn't care about factional boundaries much, except that migration won't occur between two factions at war with one another. A race cares how it will be treat by the settlement it's going to move to - if they will be treat poorly they won't migrate, it doesn't matter if that settlement is owned by 'their' faction or a foreign faction.

Orcs and Skaven generally won't willingly ever migrate into Empire settlements, because they'll just be enslaved or killed. The exception is if the settlement they're in is razed to the ground, they get desperate and might try their luck in nearby Empire settlements. They would still heavily prefer other Orc/Skaven settlements in this scenario though.