Maybe a bit higher accuracy and damage for less clip size, ammo cap, longer reload time, and leftover rounds are ejected like the soda popper and the force of nature do when reloading. Would be better at longer ranges and corner fights than your normal shotgun.

30% less pellet spread, 15% more damage per pellet, 25% less max secondary ammo, reloads 2 shells at a time in 1.5 secs and only 2 or 4 shots before reload is required.

Does both bullet and fire damage per shot (dragon's breath rounds)
+ 20% faster firing speed
____
- 66% clip size
- 60% afterburn time on primary and secondary weapons (about 4 seconds, compared to 10).

A weapon meant to fight against enemy pyros, while also being able to set targets on fire from a distance, like a compromise between the flare gun and the shotgun. Also provides a good counter against items that would normally foil your flames, like the various demoman shields, when you don't want to sacrifice a flare gun. It'd also provide a fun hitscan alternative to the other flare guns, if you're the type that can't aim projectiles very well. However, your abilities as a pyro would now be limited, and dying carries more weight for you as "lighting and forgetting" isn't as much of an option anymore. When you engage targets, you're more or less required to finish them off rather than run away, unless that enemy was very close to death anyway.

Originally posted by Killah Zillah:

Does both bullet and fire damage per shot (dragon's breath rounds)
+ 20% faster firing speed
____
- 66% clip size
- 60% afterburn time on primary and secondary weapons (about 4 seconds, compared to 10).

A weapon meant to fight against enemy pyros, while also being able to set targets on fire from a distance, like a compromise between the flare gun and the shotgun. Also provides a good counter against items that would normally foil your flames, like the various demoman shields, when you don't want to sacrifice a flare gun. It'd also provide a fun hitscan alternative to the other flare guns, if you're the type that can't aim projectiles very well. However, your abilities as a pyro would now be limited, and dying carries more weight for you as "lighting and forgetting" isn't as much of an option anymore. When you engage targets, you're more or less required to finish them off rather than run away, unless that enemy was very close to death anyway.

I've played with the incendary shotgun in COD black ops, and while it does in fact have a massive damage bonus that will instantly kill several targets at mid range, I assume that this will be mostly balanced if an incendary shotgun is implemented. There is also a scout primary called the "Scorched Shot" which I assume is intended to be something of a incendary shotgun based on the way it looks. All in all, a shotgun with flaming bullets would be easy to make (make the pellets deal more base damage and set targets on fire) but hard to balance as you could simply sit back and annoy snipers without actually killing someone. It would be more balanced if an incendary shotgun shot a bunch of short ranged flame particles at the same time as pellets resulting in an actual "dragon breath" shotgun.

Originally posted by -W3E- Pokeking:

I've played with the incendary shotgun in COD black ops, and while it does in fact have a massive damage bonus that will instantly kill several targets at mid range, I assume that this will be mostly balanced if an incendary shotgun is implemented. There is also a scout primary called the "Scorched Shot" which I assume is intended to be something of a incendary shotgun based on the way it looks. All in all, a shotgun with flaming bullets would be easy to make (make the pellets deal more base damage and set targets on fire) but hard to balance as you could simply sit back and annoy snipers without actually killing someone. It would be more balanced if an incendary shotgun shot a bunch of short ranged flame particles at the same time as pellets resulting in an actual "dragon breath" shotgun.

I wasn't suggesting massive extra damage per shot, just that it lit targets on fire for a very short amount of time like a flare gun would (the chaos flares create in my target is so delish), while still doing bullet damage so that it's usable against enemy pyros, who are immune to the best attributes of flare guns. As a pyro main, my biggest annoyance is when I have to go back to spawn and equip my pyro counter loadout because most of the enemy team's spamming my class now, but I love the flare gun/don't like the firing rate on the stock shotgun, so having a compromise between the two would be lovely to me. It could probably have burn time affected further by range as a sort of hidden statistic, to help counter the hitscan usability against snipers.

Also, I love the over-under design on the gun, which would also mean that Valve wouldn't have to make any fancy animations for it and would just make the flare reload animation play twice for each round. Valve wins, we win with a weapon that has a cool new mechanic that could shake up the meta somewhat, c'mon Gaben, give us a pyro exclusive shotgun! Heavy gets one, engie gets one, why not? :3

As an aside, I wish the family business were usable by the other classes, I love that gun's firing rate so much.

Your stats do sound balanced, but I think it should half the afterburn duration (10 secs is normal) for it as several other weapons with a dot have a 5 second duration rather than 4. Also a 20% slower reload to balance the fire rate bonus. And speaking of afterburn, I would prefer a flamethower that has more afterburn damage but with less duration and a bit higher airblast cost. Say 25% more afterburn damage, 50% less afterburn duration, 50% greater airblast cost and refire delay.

The Torchers Twin-Barrel :

+ 25% More damage
+ Shoots bullets ( Yay )
+ 25% More reserve ammo
+ Causes bleed effect for 5 seconds on hit

- 20% Less accurate
- 15% Longer reload time
- 15% Damage vulnurability

Soda Popper but with MMMPH! instead of hype. would combo GOD-LIKE with the phlog

+20% projectiles per shot
+60% firing speed

-66% ammo per clip
-50% max secondary ammo

On hit: resets afterburn duration
On close range hit: ignites targets for 4 seconds
20% damage bonus
66% clip size
20% less accurate

Torcher's TwinBarrel:

while equipped: afterburn damage increased by 35%

while equipped: 5% more faster

reloads 40% faster

+77 clip size

25% less damage

taking damage will decrease afterburn extra damage
afterburn extra damage per life:
life | extra damage
100%| 35%
90% | 30%
80% | 25%
70% | 20%
60% | 15%
50% | 10%
40% | 5%
20% | 1%
10% | 0%+ while equipped moves 25% more faster+ while equipped you will be marked to death

that's my sugestion. You probably will not take my sugestion

If Kurt Cobain used the Olympia he would still be alive

40 extra meters before damage falloff 20% damage boost and only 2 shells 40%longer reload
extra shells are ejected

Pros:Hold M2 to load 3 shot and release them in a burst of bullets that Mini-crit the enemy +35% Pellets Cons:no random crits while loading your burst of 3 shots all damage dealt to you is mini-crits +35% spread the +35% spread will cause your bullets to be farther apart

+100% more bullets per shot
+Deals mini-crits to burning enemies
-10% less accurate

I'm going to step away from any fire related aspect for this weapon, as I think it would fit more as a raw, close range finisher.

All stats will be referring to the base shotgun unless otherwise stated

Reload of the flaregun, pellets of the shotgun

+ 40% more pellets
+ 50% faster fire rate

- 17% less damage
- 2 in the clip
- reloads whole clip at once
- 50% less accurate
- does NOT reload passively

Once close, the pyro could now deal 210 damage in the time it would take a normal shotgun to shoot only one 90 damage shot,
But with the reload time of the flare and the fact you can't just switch to your flame thrower and wait for it to comeback, it becomes useable sadly only once in extended fights. The spread will keep it to nothing more then a tickler outside if flamethrower range, and keeps in style with the sawn-off look.

I love sawn-off shotguns in game and this will make me nothing less then fulfilled to see this implemented on the pyro. To be In slapping distance of the enemy and hit him with the gun equivalent of a melee build always made me happy. I hope giant post shines a bit of light how how much I care about TF2 and the mercs