Legend of Grimrock 2

Legend of Grimrock 2

Falagar - A Journey [06/2025]
Bunkerknacker  [developer] 5 Jun, 2021 @ 10:22am
Changelog for version 1.37ish
Recycling:

-Svarangrs Hideout offers transmuting meteorites and boulders into ammo
-Altar in the Ossuary trades skulls for blackmoss
-Flooded Basement food respawn room improved
-Divine Sling tradeable at a pedestal on the Western Shore
-Garden (redesigned): 1xWater + 1x(custom) herb = harvestable plant growth
-Lair: Altar in the Feuergeist pit transmutes cannon balls and fire sigils into an explosive cannon ball

Gear/Alchemy:

-Particles effects added to many potions (fume, glittering)
-Holy Water can be consumed to uncurse a party member
-Illumination Elixirs now have the original lighting effect when consumed - rejoice!
-Waterbreathing flasks usable underwater (or by regular inventory exploit)
-Vital potion additionally regenerates health over time
-Non-craftable resistance potions changed to long-lasting ones
-Almost all potions now have several effects or temporal immunities

-Crystal flower: Random chance to win stats points or lose one, two known and two new negative effects on consumption
-Mushrooms now heavier but with clearer description and stackable (particle effect added)
-Farmers always get positive effects when consuming shrooms
-Healing wounds now limited to bloodcap, etherweed and mudwort, higher success rate
-Falkonskyre heals clumsiness and removes weakness and fatigue
-Herbs curing negative conditions increased from 80% to 90%
-Bandage/Fine Bandage success rate doubled to 50/60%, hp gain doubled, removes harmful bleeding condition.
-Sterol, Vipera, Horned Leafs have more positive effects when consumed (plus immunities)

-Whitewood wants is aquatic (underwater light bolt)
-Dark Wand fires two Dark Bolts, new item graphic
-Meditation Orb increased focus effect, reduced cost
-Alchemy Tome now increases the skill when equipped
-Wand of Fear improved, spell cost/cooldown decreased
-Fuel for all light sources increased
-Armor Sets show messages with changed values.
-Hunter set removed (buggy), values changed, Hunter Mittens added
-Face mask and Shemags grant immunity to blinding effects (long&short)
-Magical Herb Bag moved to pyramid, 7 or 8 (times charges) should suffice till then
-Higher chance to get darts from thickets, more types added

New Items:

-Master Mortar (increases alch skill)
-Horn of the Waves (waterbreathing with a downside)
-Shadow Dagger (pure dmg, stabs blind foes)
-Giant's Frostaxe (spawns large iceshards)
-Nailgun (aquatic, fires regular darts)
-Divine Sling (Trade sling for it)
-Hunter Longbow (Hunter Bow's older brother)
-Pirat Hook (armor piercing fist/dagger weapon)
-Snowball (frost shield/infinite ice shards with long cooldown)
-Oil (lever stuck? No problemo.)
-Skull Orb (cursed shield, special attack Unholy Contract)
-Bone Wand (special attack Dark Pact)
-Empty Flask (rub it and get random XP boosts for random party members)
-Aqua Fist: Aquatic glove that casts Windfist and a blinding/sleeping cloud (charges)

Container Items:
-Strange lightweight Wooden Box (fits in other containers) and... does other things - it's magic
-Food box with graphics
-8 new colored Sacks (no neon crap) with proper graphics for full/empty(opened)
-Item capacity of containers now shown in its name, e.g. Food Box (Almost Full)
-Scrolls Pouch (only paperwork fits)
-Key Ring for... exactly

-2 lower wall altar pedestals (huge surface for cuirasses)
-3 types of slim lenghty stone pedestals (different hights, aline like steps), ideal for storing/displaying spears and lances
-Miniature chest (spawns a treasure chest, max 3 available)

Magic:

-Rune Traps finally grant the party experience if they kill an opponent or cause its death
-Poison immunities removed almost entirely from monsters, damage increased
-Dark Wave spell now more effective
-Cure spell requirements changed, slow replaced with cure petrification
-Spell costs added to description (traits)

New Spells (Elemental):
-Armageddon Trap (huge ground badaboom), 4 second fire immunity
-Large Iceshards - Slower, heavier ice lances (can hit targets twice)
-Shock Cloud - Multiple hits in quick succession, stuns
-Therianthropy - Bearform for all, YAY!
-Snake Bite- Tiledamager with instant dmg
-Flame Guardian (blocking fireburst statues to the sides, frontal firedamage)
-Instable Forcefield (Relaxing water forcefield on self, collapses in frostbursts)
-Thorn Entangle (immobilizing roots + gas cloud on start and die)
-Levitate (avoid many floor traps)
-Firestorm (brief fire immunity, walls of fire on caster's tile and around it)
-Frost Cloud (air magic with frost damage over time)

New Spells (Utility/Hidden)
-Physical Shield: group spell, shorter duration but better protection than regular shield
-Smoke Screen (invisibility through smoke bomb)
-Waterbreathing Short (Horn of the Waves)
-Uncurse (Holy Water)
-Hedge Haven (Blocking/entangling thorns grant a safe haven for a short while)
-Spike Trap: stunned enemy gets hit thrices (thrust dmg)
-Create Food: (high energy cost, low nutrition food)
-Half Life (disease removal, health set to 50% health)
-Create Chest (ivy roots below, cast in front of party and facing the party)

Monsters:

-Eyctopus now cause short blindness instead of fever
-Summon Stones may hurl rocks and boulders (may drop stone skin/gargoyle regen potions upon death)
-Slimes are now ideal for the leech special attack(health absorbed>damage)
-Resistances changed to fit new damage types
-Air Ellies: resistances corrected (divine only again), absorb elemental magic
-Ice Spiders: Immunities frozen only, weakness to "hunt", all values slightly reduced.
-Immobile aquatic turtle added (food source)
-Ogre and Forest Ogres: individual weapon and item drops
-Magma Golems now absorb their flame attacks to heal, increased speed, poison immunity removed, resistances added
-Fast Twigroot (nightmare fuel), both versions leave combusting roots behind (loot drop changed, blunt immunity)
-Small Herders combust on death
-New harmful conditions added to existing monsters (freeze, electrocute, bleeding, stomach ache, burn, acid etc)
-Air elementals have a small chance to drop a "seemingly empty" flask


Weapons:

-Smoke Bomb hits have a chance to blind, alternatively turns the group invisible biefly
-Moonblade now absorbs life from undead with a triple strike
-All Bashing Shields have been redesigned (regular + charged attack)
-More secondary skills added as requirement (e.g. dodge, accuracy, athletics)

-Descriptions for bows/crossbows
-Bows' abilities/requirements/special attacks rearranged
-New special attacks "Quick Pull" and "Overdraw" added
-Thrust/Hunt damage added to crossbows and bows
-Harpoon gun (aquatic) no longer requires energy (aka ogyxen) to fire
-Musket: Successful hits always manage to ignite a target now

-Elemental Club has more random effects (sound error fixed - damn case sensitivity)
-Divine weapons damage undead primarily, dispel now a special attack
-Throwing weapons have shorter cooldowns
-Certain mace weapons moved to light weapons category, fighter bonus for "Ancient
Claymore"
-Katana "nerfed"
-Special attack for "Heavy Pickaxe" changed from light to heavy weapons
-Blunt damage for certain weapons added and weaknesses added to monsters
-Machete is now a heavy weapon
-Thrusting swords are all aquatic
-Bone flute works as melee weapon
-Meteorite and Fire Sigil now throw via special attack but they always hit
-Fire&Lightning swords/blades have a chance to cast spells, special attacks with charges
-Fiery Flail: Great fireball as special attack, charges
-Replaced hardcoded special attacks with custom ones to include dmg types
-More special attacks added or replaced (skullcrusher, disembowel...)
-Explosive Cannonball always grants XP and only detonates on a succesful hit
-Bombarde can be loaded with (solid) rocks alternatively
-Special Darts have a chance to break or become regular ones
-Blinding darts added

Misc:

-Bookshelves replaced with bookshelf alcoves (with proper surfaces)
-4 Cloth, 3 Light Armor and 2 Heavy Armor compendium excerpts added to secrets (early)

-Secret counter and message added for 33/50/100% secrets found on a level
-Single-use buttons, pullchains and levers can not be clicked/pulled a second time
-Chances for "mining" pillars slightly improved
-Difficulty "adventurer" hitpoint bonus reduced from +100 to +50, magic orb replaced with a herb sack
-All floor traps (of which there are more now) can be disarmed using digging or items
-Food: Food rate for fed/well fed/saturated condition reduced, feather effect added
-Chests now have a faint glittering effect floating above them, this is supposed to give a tiny visual clue where chests can be dug up. Treasure hunting at night is therefore recommended.
-Recharge Crystal powered chambers with limited duration (adjacent recharge stations) in central Twigroot Grove
-Timer added to floor traps (levitation)
-Ambient sounds added to many areas
-Fireflies tiles now helpful (usage removes light)
-Replaced some regular secret buttons with new (less obvious) ones


World Map:

-Crude map of the world added to the starting area
-Starting Crypt and Catacombs area improved and new hints added
-Twigroot Grove: lots of changes to the SW forest, ponds and central area
-Rutted Moor now has more and clearer shortcuts to improve navigation
-Some more hints to puzzles added (e.g. swamp pressure plates)
-(Lower) Catacombs redesigned, Caretaker bossfight improved, puzzles changed
-Swamp Grotto west improved
-SW Prison area (below graveyard) new design, timers changed, secret added
-Highlands redesigned, traps and light sources added
-Beach Caverns improved, ugly climbing replaced, more light sources, SE teleport fixed
-SW mining area now no longer a dead end, more monsterr/spawns, entrance shortcut
-Boss area in the Hideout redesigned, new secret
-Gravyard S and SE entrance slightly redesigned

-Flooded Basement, caulked several joints, two dozen crystal wall lamps now help with orientation under water.
-Dug more pits in the Flowing Sand, added mossy eggs in thickets (nasty)
-The Lair: Copper key and M-robe properly hidden, surprise on the way back added
-Several minor improvements in the Old Ruins
-Flowing Sands now prints a message for each guardian slain. The digging part is closer to the colapsing forcefield and the key lock has a description.
-Two more secrets added in the Forsaken Temple Basement
-Northern Forest: new item and a secret added, northern river blocked till after the Hideout
-Frozen Lake: Changes to the landscape and the center trial, ambush added
-Forsaken Temple: 500XP exploit removed, only the first wave of ice lizards gives real XP
-Forsaken Temple bossfight taken into the basement (ice cave), secrets added
-FS Basement redesigned with frozen walls/floor
-Ladder (pins) now don't have an automap icon anymore (few exceptions)
-Highlands: Teleporter back to the Refugium in center added (available after Slime boss fight)
-Crackling fire sound added to lanterns, lamps, daemon faces and torches
-Random decorative/blocking models added
-Homeward Windtunnel added to the Rutted Moor
-Entrace to Hideout redesigned, little trap with new secret button and clue outside
-Breakable ammo chests added, they spawn random numbers of pellets and incendiaries
-Tower Basement: secret added fitting the theme, missing(?) valor armor part as reward
-Respawn timer for harvestable beachtail, thorns and thickets decreased
-Northern Forest S/SW redesigned (deeper, hedges, secret walls, traps)
-Crypt: New lit (by pullchain...) storage room, accessible with (3rd) Refugium Key, altar, alcoves/pedestals, room above altar for "mid-air" chests
-Snow falls in Highlands and Frozen Lake areas

Bugfixes:

-Repeating sound effects when entering a level replaced with single-use scripts
-Some possible dead ends removed and failsafes added
-Crown on Western Shore no longer accessible early
-Magic bridges in the Old Ruins connected properly
-Gate north of double door in the Hideout now opens as intended
-Puzzle in the western Catacombs corrected
-Inaccessible button in Rotted Moor due to unearthed chest fixed
-Ruin walls now save their state (opened/closed) after reload/reentering level (hopefully)
-Old Ruins script added to fix all lanterns being lit by default, chest NW unreachable
-Nergal amulet athletics bug fixed
-Puzzles for several regions fixed or optimized
-"Insert item" scripts changed to be more specific (crosses fingers)
-Refreshing water puzzle now works with ice rod AND max water magic
-Throwing knife's aimed attack no longer negative accuracy
-Possible death trap in E of Old Ruins removed
-Possible Death trap in the Flooded Basement (button unreachable)
-Unintended shortcut in the Flooded Basement (SW) sealed
-XP properly granted for elemental ammo and throwing weapons
-Automap icon for altar/pedestals fixed

Classes, Races and Traits:

-Special class trait, listing all crits/cooldowns/acc/misc bonuses, new hidden traits added (cloak&dagger, reload master, alch regeneration, etc)
-Starting traits improved: Almost all traits reduce duration of negative conditions
-New trait: Missile Accuracy
-Each race has its own resistance to one fever type (25%-50% duration only)
-Changed Ranger trait for Huldra: huldra sling/blowpipes proficiency
-New Human trait "ascetic"
-New Rattling trait: "cheese gourmet"
-New Trait: Bloodletting (health loss for health regen)

-New class: Lurker, (ninja) expert thrower/asian weaponry
-Default Health/Energy Regen for all classes (0%-20%)
-Knight: Shield Bash expert (reduced cooldown), polearms get increase accuracy
-Barbarian: Accuracy/Cooldown bonus for huge hammers
-Warden: Accuracy/reload bonus for all crossbows, crit weapon list changed (divine/mauls/flails, all crossbow types)
-Pirate: Crit Bonus for fencing, higher crit for firearms, intoxicated effect replaced by short agility boost (tipsy)
-Monk: Crit and Cooldown bonus with staves
-Archer: Bow expert
-Warrior: Throwing axe master
-Rogue: Dagger expert (2% Crit per level)
-Farmer: Group embalmer (100% success)

Conditions:

-All messages changed to only give necessary information on the effect
-Duration for all positive effects added (when active)
-All conditions' durations increased (doubled), certain values altered
-Waterbreathing Extended reduced to 200 seconds
-Life Leech special condition altered
-New Conditions:
Dark Pact, Unholy Contract, Stone Form, Gargoyle Regeneration

-Temporary immunities (poison, acid, burn, disease, etc)
-Negative effect "electrified" added
-All negative effects end on death or after its duration (modified by traits)
-New Harmful conditions:
Stomach Ache, Sub Zero, Electrocute and Bleeding Out (with starting/race traits to counter the duration), Illness, Blood Poisoning (endless)

-Wound treatment with bandages altered:
Everyone: chance increased on self
Farmer: 100%
Alchemists: chance to heal self and others
Embalmer trait 100% on self
-Fine Bandages (stop bleeding additionally)
_____________________________________________________
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WIP:
-Spell turning foe around [WIP]
-Spell shield (absorbs magical projectile)
-Alchemist as poison expert class (shaman staff, venom dagger etc), potion expert (multiplier for certain types)

-Nightmare mode with increased damage and movement speed for monsters, longer negative status effects.
-FAQ with starting tips (maybe?)
-Item/spell lists as a Falagopedia

Requires implementation:

-Dead Tree locks (tree growth, ladder, over hedge? Fog puzzle?)
-Harvestable thorns (shovel, dig hole... seed pouch?)

-Place traps: steam/freezing/toxic air, floor triggers & particles
-Place models: new dungeon pedestal/alcove models, fences, wall altars, beams, underground outdoor ruins, arches, arch fences, wall fences, slim lanterns, arch-forest_lantern-mine_lever, hedges/spruce/fog combos, spear wall/open_wall, tree pillars to wall deco (offset), lowered large trees, hedge combos
Last edited by Bunkerknacker; 4 Sep, 2021 @ 4:19am
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Showing 1-15 of 22 comments
Mehbah 7 Jun, 2021 @ 12:23pm 
Nice to see that you're working on it again. Some of these changes definitely sound like a result of my feedback, so I'm glad I'm helping improve the mod. I've got a few minor thoughts but I'll hold off on them until I see how the changes work in practice. That mention of a FAQ made me wonder, though, have you considered making a walkthrough? I've seen a few other big mods include a text file with a walkthrough and list of secrets. Mods tend to increase the difficulty and I imagine that you won't be available to answer questions forever. It'd be a shame if someone misses out on the rest of the mod because they stumble on one small puzzle halfway through, or something like that. Unlike a full game, mods don't have that safety net of online walkthroughs, and the unfortunate reality is that bugs have an easier time sneaking in with no proper bugtesting. At least then people could identify bugs if they run into them, instead of running around cluelessly.

Of course, I imagine that making a walkthrough and/or secrets list would take a significant amount of time and effort. I'm just throwing out the idea in case you want to future-proof the mod. It would probably come later anyway, once the mod has finished being patched. I'm looking forward to the update, and that nightmare mode sounds like a challenge.
Bunkerknacker  [developer] 8 Jun, 2021 @ 1:49am 
Originally posted by Mehbah:
Nice to see that you're working on it again. [...]

I have indeed been reading thoroughly through your feedback and took these into consideration when playtesting with different parties. In case you have any thoughts on specific changes, let me know beforehand, so I can alter things before they cause any issues.

There are two playthroughs (well, one and a half) of earlier versions on my Youtubes, but I am not going to write a huge walkthrough, I'd rather leave that to the players in case someone is interested enough to bother (I believe there was a Japanese player very early on who did that for his audience).

Since I now have a counter for the amount of secrets for each level, I was thinking adding that in some form, perhaps just a list so players can check whether they got them all.
In addition to this, there is also a forum with dozens of riddles and most of them are still up to date which might help when comparing. Then again, I can always add a forum here in which each (edited) post deals with one level, so everyone can chip in.
As a matter of fact, they will have to because I am not planing on giving any solutions to puzzles anymore. ;)

The Nightmare mode can either be tedious work for days on end or a rather simple solution. The latter being a different file with a complete overhaul of the monster library and conditions. That version would then have disabled the regular entrances for adventurer and warrior and only offer the Nightmare portal.

But since I got one-shot in the back (114/111hp) by a thrown axe in the starting crypt and cornered and butchered by ogres and ice spiders, I don't think everything needs to get cranked up to 9000.


Just as a general note concerning the update:
I am not going to add other modders' custom tilesets, textures, monsters or import huge magic systems and I don't see me working on anything of that kind myself. Staying true to the original without adding some crazy shid has always been a guideline and I'll stick to that.
Mehbah 8 Jun, 2021 @ 8:11am 
Well, just about all the changes sound like improvements, but a lot of them are too vague to really offer much feedback on. Can't say much about "Katana "nerfed"" without further details. More spells sounds great, though I can't say much more before I see what they do and test them.

I'm guessing that the whitewood wand change is your way of implementing an underwater light source. I can't remember how early it's found (or how easily missable it is) so my feedback on that is "probably a really good addition".

Two things that stand out as not being on the list are the lack of heavy weapons rebalancing, and nerfing ice spiders. You do mention a few changes to heavy weapons so maybe they're better overall. Ice spiders already feel like you're playing on nightmare mode, with how much of a difficulty jump they are.

I like the concept of a "Falagopedia". Figuring out new magic spells has always been a double-edged sword. On one hand, it's fun to figure new spells out yourself or extrapolating from ones you already know. On the other hand, skill points are too tight, especially in the base game, for a player to want to place them blindly. Maybe the player assumes that air and earth together would give them a tornado of stones and then all the game gives them is poison bolt. Speaking of poison, what you did with it sounds good on paper at least.

Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
As a matter of fact, they will have to because I am not planing on giving any solutions to puzzles anymore. ;)
Oh dear. At least most of the things I got stuck on were bugs. Can't deny that a few of them worked as intended and simply stumped me, though.
Mehbah 8 Jun, 2021 @ 2:00pm 
This one's a repeat from the feedback thread, but the puzzle involving circling the guardians to open the pyramid would be better without a time limit. I think the stone tablets called it a pilgrimage, which doesn't give the impression that you need to be as fast as possible. If anything I'd say it gives the opposite impression. Also, since you can't deal with the golems and make it back in time, you have to do the run twice, which once again clashes with the idea of calling it a pilgrimage. I was reminded of this when I saw someone in the comments (didn't know people used them for asking for help; they're pretty inconvenient compared to the forums) being stuck trying to open the pyramid, and he didn't realize there was a time limit either. This might already be included in those puzzles that were "fixed or optimized".
Bunkerknacker  [developer] 8 Jun, 2021 @ 9:32pm 
Originally posted by Mehbah:
Well, just about all the changes sound like improvements, but a lot of them are too vague to really offer much feedback on. Can't say much about "Katana "nerfed"" without further details. More spells sounds great, though I can't say much more before I see what they do and test them.
I was going for vague to keep it less technical. The katana now does less piercing dmg and is heavier and slower IIRC, it was one of the first changes I tested. As for the spells:
Fire - Trap with the 4-tile fire like the "explosive cannonball"
Ice - Slower, heavier ice lances (also used for Giant's Axe)
Air - Cloud spell with quick hits in succession, stuns
Air - Bearform for all, YAY!
Poison - Tiledamager with instant dmg
(Plus two hidden spells used for items or conditions)

Originally posted by Mehbah:
I'm guessing that the whitewood wand change is your way of implementing an underwater light source. I can't remember how early it's found (or how easily missable it is) so my feedback on that is "probably a really good addition".
The whitewood wand is really close to the start (throw rock over water, done). I myself had trouble searching for stuff underwater and had not found the magic orb yet, bit unpatient atm. Having something limited to underwater "only" requires some intense scripting to check for the party's whereabouts constantly and I never got it working properly and reliably, so I went with this instead. Thought about giving the new item Horn of Waves the ability to spawn glowing balls in front of the party, but since it requires the champion's "full attention"(hinthint), that's out the window.

Originally posted by Mehbah:
Two things that stand out as not being on the list are the lack of heavy weapons rebalancing, and nerfing ice spiders. [...]
Weapons are only as strong as the champion's class. My current party is fighter, barbarian, brawler and rogue, two with heavy and two with light weapons. So far it seems rather balanced and the heavy duty boys have cleared the way more than once.
Early heavy weapons are the boneclub, warhammer and now the machete, perhaps a lance drop early on, that does the trick.
Ice spiders certainly are a leap in difficulty, but that counts for most things in the Highlands area. A forcefield or stunning spell or weapon works wonders, though, as they cannot be frozen. Perhaps even blind or fear, since the moral value of animals it not that high? Needs some testing but I'll look into it.

Originally posted by Mehbah:
I like the concept of a "Falagopedia". [...]
Indeed, giving players the chance to plan ahead seems rather useful, especially when it comes to spells (despite all spell scrolls can be found). Right now I am uncertain to what extent these lists should be made and what to include or how to sort things.
Probably just some key aspects like damage range(regular-special attack), damage type, cooldown time, requirements and special features (stun, magic), while the spells list should include gestures and energy costs. But, once again, this may very well be player made in the forum with edited posts.

Poison has just been lifted slightly to at least do "some" damage and altered it to be more of a corrosive thing to also affect undead and the like. The additional weaknesses and vulnerabilities added to the monster library make it even stronger, so it is actually a viable tool.

Originally posted by Mehbah:
This one's a repeat from the feedback thread, but the puzzle involving circling the guardians to open the pyramid would be better without a time limit.[...]
Ehm... you are mistaken, there never was a time limit. Each pillar has its own counters but no timers are attached to any one of them. I did improve the bit by calling forth the summon stones and added audio clues before. I have added a number of text clues, though, so this might be another. In fact, I am going to redesign the puzzle to make it more obvious, including the digging part. However, this was supposed to be cryptic by design... you know, the pyramids and its puzzling purpose.
Last edited by Bunkerknacker; 8 Jun, 2021 @ 9:49pm
Mehbah 9 Jun, 2021 @ 1:26am 
Those spells sound fun.

Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
Ice spiders certainly are a leap in difficulty, but that counts for most things in the Highlands area. A forcefield or stunning spell or weapon works wonders, though, as they cannot be frozen. Perhaps even blind or fear, since the moral value of animals it not that high? Needs some testing but I'll look into it.

I'd say the spiders are a difficulty spike even compared to the rest of that area. I had two people capable of casting forcefields and still thought that they were too dangerous. I'd sometimes use the blinding trap, but from what I remember it never seemed to make much of a difference. It's been a while though, so my memory could be mistaken.

That reminds me though, is there a way to make kills through traps grant experience points? It's a minor thing, but it would be nice.

Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
Ehm... you are mistaken, there never was a time limit. Each pillar has its own counters but no timers are attached to any one of them. I did improve the bit by calling forth the summon stones and added audio clues before. I have added a number of text clues, though, so this might be another. In fact, I am going to redesign the puzzle to make it more obvious, including the digging part. However, this was supposed to be cryptic by design... you know, the pyramids and its puzzling purpose.

That's weird. I'm almost certain that I had to do the run several times until I did it fast enough. I seem to recall that I did it as intended before I asked in the hints thread, but it didn't work for some reason. After that it took two or three more tries. Also, I should specify that I'm talking about the pressure plate that I assumed gave you X seconds to round the pillars and run back to it. The pillars themselves didn't have any timers.
Bunkerknacker  [developer] 9 Jun, 2021 @ 7:26am 
Originally posted by Mehbah:
That reminds me though, is there a way to make kills through traps grant experience points? It's a minor thing, but it would be nice.

I highly doubt this is possible. A direct spell, condition or projectile has its owner and can be retraced, but creating an object that itself spawns something else when triggered cannot (to my knowledge) be linked to the original owner of the object.
Mehbah 21 Jun, 2021 @ 1:41pm 
I see you've been updating the changelog. Almost all of these sound great, so no need to comment on them. There are a few that I have thoughts on though.
Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
Crystal flower: 20% chance for up to 4 attribute gains, else petrified, farmer class and herbalism trait counter the negative effect
Up to 4 attribute points? Does that mean that there is a 5% chance of the old effect? I'm sure you already noticed, but I'm not a big fan of permanent RNG stuff like this. Some RNG is fine to add spice to the game, things like criticals, misses and status conditions, but permanent stat bonuses shouldn't be random if you ask me. But, well, you're the one making the mod, not me.
Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
Ladder (pins) now don't have an automap icon anymore (few exceptions)
I see you've reconsidered somewhat, already. I'm guessing the intention is to make them more secret (they can be surprisingly hard to spot) but I worry that it will make simple traversal a pain. Trying to find your way back to a certain room in a maze without having some of the ladders marked could be quite annoying, I imagine.
Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
Crackling fire sound added to lanterns, lamps, daemon faces and torches
Not loud enough to make it hard to hear secret doors and such, right?

Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
I highly doubt this is possible. A direct spell, condition or projectile has its owner and can be retraced, but creating an object that itself spawns something else when triggered cannot (to my knowledge) be linked to the original owner of the object.
No way to make any trap kills simply give the party the exp? If a monster dies to any trap it is almost certainly because the player had a hand in it. Would be a shame to add all these cool new trap spells but disincentivize using them.

Looking forward to playing with the more unusual new classes. Poison mage, punch/staff monk, dual wielding shield knight? Should be fun for the novelty alone. The new spells sound fun too, and I see you've added a few more. Especially the ground element ones. By the way, don't forget to add an anti-game journalist mode for that guy that keeps complaining about the mod being too easy despite never having played it. 500% movement speed, attack speed and damage sounds like a good start. Should make him happy.
Last edited by Mehbah; 21 Jun, 2021 @ 1:42pm
Bunkerknacker  [developer] 21 Jun, 2021 @ 10:21pm 
Crystal flower: Fighting save scumming is futile, so I leave it to the player to decide whether reloading a dozen times is worth it. The way I see it you can either give the reward right away, connect it to a downside (lower another stat?) or add punishment (for which there are counter measures anyway). The petrification in the current version just made me grab the stone cloak, reload a few times and I called it a day.

Ladder: Was indeed concerned about there being more "secret" places than regular climbing spots. Have not yet looked into it, but I am probably going to add the few exceptions. Trying to find the areas in which having them not show on the auto map seems like the more practical approach.

Sound: It is just as silent as regular crackling fire, the torches are slightly louder, but it shouldn't be too noisy or distracting. The magic bridge has been changed as well, added a version with fog effects (wow!) and it is more quiet in general now. Never liked the loud humming noise.

EDIT: Traps: Good news, I found the mistake and fixed it, XP is now granted for successful remote trap kills. Since what the traps spawn is not cast by the party, I assumed it was "causedBy" it - a common mistake. Needs some more testing whether all conditions work as they should, but it is looking good so far. Might need to take a closer look at elemental ammo next.

Hardcore mode: Been fiddling around with ingame options to alter files or pick different monster libraries, no luck so far. Altering individual entities is one thing, but it becomes a mess on a global scale. Probably just going to upload a seperate version with increased values so that the first steps feel like the player just entered the frozen spider caves.

If push comes to shove, I'll simply add a button to cripple the party, add an incurable constant burden effect or something similarly evil and leave it at that. ;)
Last edited by Bunkerknacker; 22 Jun, 2021 @ 8:04am
Bunkerknacker  [developer] 21 Jun, 2021 @ 10:50pm 
I am also testing a hunger damage system, any thoughts on that?

What it does is it damages starving chars over time in three steps.
Starting from 25%, 12% to 0% on the hunger bar, it increases the damage values. Every 5 or 10 minutes the damage is done.
Nothing majorily deadly, just a "friendly reminder" and a way to prevent sleeping it off or living on potions for the rest of the playthrough.

An alternative would be increased Cooldown rates as they get tired, hungry and slower when affected.

This will probably lead to an "iron rations/reserve" magic bag or whatever with the classical "create food" spell spawning 4 neutral food objects. With limited charges (or single-use), of course.
Mehbah 23 Jun, 2021 @ 9:19am 
Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
Crystal flower: Fighting save scumming is futile, so I leave it to the player to decide whether reloading a dozen times is worth it.
My opinion on the matter is that it's better to design systems so that you don't need to reload for RNG. The difference between a player that reloads for min-maxing item consumption and one that doesn't is probably something around 15-30 in relevant stat points, for each stat and character. That's quite a lot. I had some ideas for ways to reduce the max total while removing RNG in the feedback thread, though I don't know if they can be implemented. I didn't know that the stone cloak prevented self-inflicted petrification, I kind of assumed that the immunity was ignored as in some other games.

Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
Good news, I found the mistake and fixed it, XP is now granted for successful remote trap kills.
Nice, good to hear.

Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
Hardcore mode: Been fiddling around with ingame options to alter files or pick different monster libraries, no luck so far. Altering individual entities is one thing, but it becomes a mess on a global scale. Probably just going to upload a seperate version with increased values so that the first steps feel like the player just entered the frozen spider caves.
The frozen spider caves were apparently too easy for him; you better step it up with this double nightmare mode. Anyway, a separate file is fine if you ask me.

Originally posted by Bunkerknacker:
I am also testing a hunger damage system, any thoughts on that?
I always fed my adventurers as soon as I realized that they were hungry, so at least in my case it would be unnecessary. Are there people that ignore it, and enough of them for it to be worthwhile? If you hover over a portrait while starving it says that damage dealt is halved. At least to me, that's enough of a drawback to prevent me from ever letting my party go hungry. If you do implement it, maybe lower to threshold to 20% since that's when it counts as starving rather than hungry, unless I'm mistaken.
Bunkerknacker  [developer] 25 Jun, 2021 @ 1:23am 
Originally posted by Mehbah:
My opinion on the matter is that it's better to design systems so that you don't need to reload for RNG....
Personally, I simply like the idea of rolling the dice and either getting lucky or not.
But you are right, all 4 stats increased permanently is a bit much for an item that is not exactly unique (maybe I'll add a special one or two.
Half of the flowers are going to be removed to begin with as there are one or two dozens of them laying around.
It is probably going to be like this: Gain 2 random stats, get 1 randomly lowered.

The hunger system in place right now is just taking 1-6% (gradually more %) of the max health anyway, so nothing serious, but nutrition is important. Since I am working on harvestable plants (besides the already in place respawn on thorns), this might work well together.

Mehbah 26 Jun, 2021 @ 1:15pm 
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Mehbah 28 Jun, 2021 @ 12:46pm 
Are you able to read the above post? Steam seems to be saying that it's awaiting review to protect against harmful links or something, and has been saying it for days. I guess a small, poor indie company like Valve doesn't have the ability to host a forum that actually works properly.
Bunkerknacker  [developer] 28 Jun, 2021 @ 9:00pm 
Originally posted by Mehbah:
Are you able to read the above post? Steam seems to be saying that it's awaiting review to protect against harmful links or something, and has been saying it for days. I guess a small, poor indie company like Valve doesn't have the ability to host a forum that actually works properly.

I received no message despite being the author (good job Valve) and I cannot see anything other then the warning text. Guess they do not feel like checking it. Thought the warning for external links was sufficient.
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