sickle (1h int melee) or physical wand would've been great for this class. (imagine malthael from diablo with dual scythes)
also i don't understand why you suggest leveling warfare. as i see it the main chunk of damage comes from dots. and it's piercing. (or they've made that warfare augment piercing damage too?)

Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:

sickle (1h int melee) or physical wand would've been great for this class. (imagine malthael from diablo with dual scythes)
also i don't understand why you suggest leveling warfare. as i see it the main chunk of damage comes from dots. and it's piercing. (or they've made that warfare augment piercing damage too?)

Warfare also scales Piercing damage :)

Greetings again Odinblade! With the release of the definitive edition I've decided to put down Umbra (read: make sebille umbra rather than OC) and try out the Spectre class with earnest this time. The inclusion of Physical damage staves with a special attack is mostly what brought me back to Spectre, but honestly the class feels... well, much weaker than your other class mods.The single-target damage feels good, and it can quickly kill a target, but once the first thing dies I seem to stall out. With the warfare scaling I've tried to combo it with warfare abilities, but the Spectre's skills don't make me want to move into close combat since they all have very solid range and lack hard CC. The team I am playing with is the classic Poly-Necro Knight focued a bit mroe on CC than kill power, the Umbra, and a Hydro/Aero support. It feels like my Spectre is the strongest character at the start of the fight, and the weakest character at the end of it.

1 memory skills: Pacts, Curses, Mordant, and AOE skills (Conduit, Tormented Volley, and Corruption) are very solid, unique, and fun to use when enemies are grouped properly, setting this up takes time and can be annoying, but when executed make you feel like you're doing tons of damage. Likewise, the single-target skills that stack Agony are cheap and useful, even if their damage is low. Riftwalk is a trap, however. The application of stacks to multiple targets seems attractive, but without having someone focused solely on ccing those targets you are more likely to die than get kills when using this aggresively. defensively, it is simply a worse phoenix dive. I would suggest removing it if it weren't for the fact that I'm sure someone somewhere has built a character that uses only this skill on a poly-necro 2h fighter since it removes the need to dip into pyro. Soul Pierce is wonky and sometimes doesn't follow the path that you would expect or otherwise misses targets that it should hit, making the projectile wider, or changing it into a ray attack (like the pyro lazer beam) would greatly improve this skill. The spectral Banshee is simply worse than bloated corpse or corpse explosion, except for the fact that it can apply agony. I only use this skill when an encounter already has a corpse present. any skill not mentioned either didn't stand out, or hasn't been used enough for input.

Source magic: Seed of Malice is amazing and fun, the smal radius and fact that enemies always move before they explode annoys me, but these things can be worked around. Spread the Sickness is amazing. Curses are fantastic, spreading your stacks and curses around are amazing. very worth 2 source points. Agony of the Damned is rediculous, as you would expect a 3 source to be. The skill is so good that it makes me sad that i can't also use Spread the Sickness and Seed in the same combat.

Individually, all of the skills feel useful, but the cooldowns are long and the ap costs are high. the lack of hard cc and useful defensive abilities hurts the class however, making you far too reliant on the team around you. Agony stacks base damage and DoT is spot on, giving me enough time to stack up 5 stacks and do mean things to victims before killing them, but i frequently find myself wanting to save my powerful abilities for the perfect moment and not using them at all, or getting party members killed by not putting out my damage. The main problem is that the class doesn't feel self-sufficient but very reliant on its team.

Suggestion: I would reduce the damage of each stack of Agony by 5 or 10% and add a new effect to the passive: "If the target is killed by the damage over time effect of Agony, 50% of the stacks rounded down will be automatically transfered to the nearest enemy within 17m." and I would augment Seed of Malice to reflect this "Upon death or after 1 turn the target will explode dealing <physical damage> to all enemies within 17m and apply transfering 50% of its current agony stacks, rounded down." note how i said physical damage rather than piercing damage to compensate for the buffed stack spreading. I have no idea if you'd be able to code the game to check number of stacks or apply more than 1 stack from the same ability, but doing these two small changes would make the Spectre more self sufficient and less reliant on enemy positioning and teamwork

EDIT: grammar, spelling, and some redundant statements removed.

P.S I've recently changed my username from JustcallmeSoul, thought I should mention who I am before just leaving you wondering xD

Originally posted by Beowulfgang:

Greetings again Odinblade! With the release of the definitive edition I've decided to put down Umbra (read: make sebille umbra rather than OC) and try out the Spectre class with earnest this time. The inclusion of Physical damage staves with a special attack is mostly what brought me back to Spectre, but honestly the class feels... well, much weaker than your other class mods.The single-target damage feels good, and it can quickly kill a target, but once the first thing dies I seem to stall out. With the warfare scaling I've tried to combo it with warfare abilities, but the Spectre's skills don't make me want to move into close combat since they all have very solid range and lack hard CC. The team I am playing with is the classic Poly-Necro Knight focued a bit mroe on CC than kill power, the Umbra, and a Hydro/Aero support. It feels like my Spectre is the strongest character at the start of the fight, and the weakest character at the end of it.

1 memory skills: Pacts, Curses, Mordant, and AOE skills (Conduit, Tormented Volley, and Corruption) are very solid, unique, and fun to use when enemies are grouped properly, setting this up takes time and can be annoying, but when executed make you feel like you're doing tons of damage. Likewise, the single-target skills that stack Agony are cheap and useful, even if their damage is low. Riftwalk is a trap, however. The application of stacks to multiple targets seems attractive, but without having someone focused solely on ccing those targets you are more likely to die than get kills when using this aggresively. defensively, it is simply a worse phoenix dive. I would suggest removing it if it weren't for the fact that I'm sure someone somewhere has built a character that uses only this skill on a poly-necro 2h fighter since it removes the need to dip into pyro. Soul Pierce is wonky and sometimes doesn't follow the path that you would expect or otherwise misses targets that it should hit, making the projectile wider, or changing it into a ray attack (like the pyro lazer beam) would greatly improve this skill. The spectral Banshee is simply worse than bloated corpse or corpse explosion, except for the fact that it can apply agony. I only use this skill when an encounter already has a corpse present. any skill not mentioned either didn't stand out, or hasn't been used enough for input.

Source magic: Seed of Malice is amazing and fun, the smal radius and fact that enemies always move before they explode annoys me, but these things can be worked around. Spread the Sickness is amazing. Curses are fantastic, spreading your stacks and curses around are amazing. very worth 2 source points. Agony of the Damned is rediculous, as you would expect a 3 source to be. The skill is so good that it makes me sad that i can't also use Spread the Sickness and Seed in the same combat.

Individually, all of the skills feel useful, but the cooldowns are long and the ap costs are high. the lack of hard cc and useful defensive abilities hurts the class however, making you far too reliant on the team around you. Agony stacks base damage and DoT is spot on, giving me enough time to stack up 5 stacks and do mean things to victims before killing them, but i frequently find myself wanting to save my powerful abilities for the perfect moment and not using them at all, or getting party members killed by not putting out my damage. The main problem is that the class doesn't feel self-sufficient but very reliant on its team.

Suggestion: I would reduce the damage of each stack of Agony by 5 or 10% and add a new effect to the passive: "If the target is killed by the damage over time effect of Agony, 50% of the stacks rounded down will be automatically transfered to the nearest enemy within 17m." and I would augment Seed of Malice to reflect this "Upon death or after 1 turn the target will explode dealing <physical damage> to all enemies within 17m and apply transfering 50% of its current agony stacks, rounded down." note how i said physical damage rather than piercing damage to compensate for the buffed stack spreading. I have no idea if you'd be able to code the game to check number of stacks or apply more than 1 stack from the same ability, but doing these two small changes would make the Spectre more self sufficient and less reliant on enemy positioning and teamwork

EDIT: grammar, spelling, and some redundant statements removed.

P.S I've recently changed my username from JustcallmeSoul, thought I should mention who I am before just leaving you wondering xD

Hey there! Long time no see! I do remember you as JustcallmeSoul :)

Firstly, thanks for taking the time to leave feedback on the current iteration of the class - it's feedback like this that really helps my mods iteratively improve. It's worth noting that due to the closed-off nature of the modding beta, user testing has been limited, which (as I would have expected) has led to a few glaring improvement opportunities.

Spectre is designed to be a far-range Necro-like caster; excellent range and damage, but vulnerable due to a lack of hard-CC. Choosing to play as Spectre is supposed to fell like taking one of the Pacts. The reason why CC skills are scarce (with the exception of Terrify effects and pseudo-CC with Bonechills ice area) is to not overload Spectre and to give it some clear drawbacks. Having said that, I take your comment about costs and cooldowns on-board to help make Spectres feel less of a damp squib after turns 1 & 2.

Great to hear you're enjoying the new Curse skill line and appreciate their value both in a cheap way to apply Agony and debuff enemies for a few turns. Riftwalk is there purely to help with people wanting to try melee Spectres, something which is far better once I finish the Finesse and Strength override add-ons. Caster Spectres should choose Tactical Retreat instead IMO. Good suggestion on Soul Pierce so I'll take a look at that. Spectral Banshee is there only to help increment Agony, and was an addition requested by many classic Spectre subs - could do with some more love I agree.

Great to hear that the Source skills are hitting the mark; they're usually a bit of a let down for vanilla skill trees IMO. Soul Extractions' SP cost reduction appears at Level 16 to help Spectres use more Source skills than just Agony of the Damned should they wish.

Overall, thanks for the feedback and useful suggestions. I've taken your ideas and thoughts on-board and I'll make some QoL adjustments to remedy.

Right, I agree with the limited CC skills availible to the class, anything that deals piercing damage should lack hard cc lest it become overpowered, my comments in that regard weren't meant as a complaint. As I mentioned at the end of the comment I truly feel like it's very nearly balanced, and the only thing it really lacks is consitent ways to spread agony stacks after applying them. If you don't like the idea of this, it might make an interesting stand alone class designed around spreading afflictions from target to target, as no class mod i've found thusfar is focused on this. If the idea interests you I'd love to stay involved.

Originally posted by Beowulfgang:

Right, I agree with the limited CC skills availible to the class, anything that deals piercing damage should lack hard cc lest it become overpowered, my comments in that regard weren't meant as a complaint. As I mentioned at the end of the comment I truly feel like it's very nearly balanced, and the only thing it really lacks is consitent ways to spread agony stacks after applying them. If you don't like the idea of this, it might make an interesting stand alone class designed around spreading afflictions from target to target, as no class mod i've found thusfar is focused on this. If the idea interests you I'd love to stay involved.

Gonna fire up the engine after my beauty-sleep and see what I can do. I'm thinking about adding a passive to Agony V, resulting in incrementing Agony of enemies upon death. Will need to be balance tested of course but could be fun! Thanks again

Do you you think you could change the Styixian Portal into the river of styx or something? as a circle I find it isn't as useful as it would be a wide/long and its cast range(cant cast it to far from yourself) so its difficult to make it useful unless in close range combat.. which as a magic user aint great.. I know this is probably an annoying request.

Currently I'm combining your hydrophist overhaul with this, trying to make a ice/spectre hybrid and I thought it would be neat if you had more spectre abilitys that mixed with the ice cold chill of death! like your bone chill ability

I was also wondering, do you think you could make it to where a Scythe when meleeing people with it applies stacks of agony?

I would recommend using different animations for the Scythe as it feels kinda clunky holding it like a two-hander sword, the FX are fantastic! Cheers!

+1 on the 2-hand animation suggestion. Maybe a Scythe that does piercing damage if there isn't one as of now. It would be great for those of us that are going Lone Wolf to get a payoff on the stacking

physical scythe is way better then piercing scythe.
because with physical scythe you can still be useful for your pary by damaging the armor. with piercing you'll be a dead weight most of the time, cuz your attacks and dots will not kill instantly and enemies will not be CC'd

Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:

physical scythe is way better then piercing scythe.
because with physical scythe you can still be useful for your pary by damaging the armor. with piercing you'll be a dead weight most of the time, cuz your attacks and dots will not kill instantly and enemies will not be CC'd

Hmm, for me the spells damage both armor and pierce, is it not suppose to do that?

Originally posted by DirtyWolf:

Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:

physical scythe is way better then piercing scythe.
because with physical scythe you can still be useful for your pary by damaging the armor. with piercing you'll be a dead weight most of the time, cuz your attacks and dots will not kill instantly and enemies will not be CC'd

Hmm, for me the spells damage both armor and pierce, is it not suppose to do that?

I believe Slynx Jewel is referring to iBSimpl's suggestion of having a Piercing Scythe. If you have a Piercing Scythe, you aren't going to be able to get down a target's Physical armour for your teammates to CC them, i.e. Knockdown.

Regarding a Piercing Scythe, I won't be adding this feature. Spectre, I feel, has more than enough Piercing damage to succeed. Also, about stacking Agony on autos, this won't see implementation either. Spectre already has two skills to apply Agony on a 1 turn cooldown. Anymore ways to easily apply it will be overkill IMO. Thanks for the suggestions though!

Hey Odinblade! Having a ton of fun with your mod, i had to convince my coop partner to accept mods, but i wouldnt accept to play with out this awesome class.

i am not sure if its due to still being in act1, as me and my mate like to play it slow and enjoy the game, but i feel Spectre is a bit strong and could use a bit tweak or two. I almost feel bad writting this as you already had the trouble to create this masterpiece, but for the sake of even further improvements, i will alow myself some sugestions.

The piercing damage of Agony feels a bit high for me, this has two results: Many fights are pretty easy as they already take the piercing damage twice or even three times from my attacks and another time at their turn. Often i when i get their p.armor down they are already near dead. The other result being i often find its better to simply not use Purge and keep the debuff on them.
TLDR: the piercing damage could feel more on par with the other damaging debuffs, i would say 20% less damage at 3~5 stacks would be enough.


Some skills could cost more AP as they are all very strong. Keeping 1 AP with 1turn CD skills is feeling very strong as for each two turns will get to use one more skill. I get it we have low AOE, but we, spectres, get to kill one of targets too fast.

I feel this class is Archer-tier, but personally i also think archers are too strong hahahah


Last but not least, i found out savage sortille is not needed for p.damage spells, is this right?

Kim, if you think that srectre is too strong i suggest you to try pure necromancer to compare.
necro3-fire2-hudro3-warfare10 (start with necro2-fire1-hydro1-warfare++ til you get at least 2 sp)
you'll quickly notice that your damage will be much higher (also i suggest shield throw to do something during cd) so that you'll barely notice the abscence of agony's dots.
most of the spectre's spells deal less damage then mosquito swarm.

though i don't say spectre is bad. it's an interesting and fun class with a feel of a real necromancer(instead of a plain blood mage) with interesting mechanics(though most of them can be replicated with other vanilla spells) and high mobility

Originally posted by Kim:

Hey Odinblade! Having a ton of fun with your mod, i had to convince my coop partner to accept mods, but i wouldnt accept to play with out this awesome class.

i am not sure if its due to still being in act1, as me and my mate like to play it slow and enjoy the game, but i feel Spectre is a bit strong and could use a bit tweak or two. I almost feel bad writting this as you already had the trouble to create this masterpiece, but for the sake of even further improvements, i will alow myself some sugestions.

The piercing damage of Agony feels a bit high for me, this has two results: Many fights are pretty easy as they already take the piercing damage twice or even three times from my attacks and another time at their turn. Often i when i get their p.armor down they are already near dead. The other result being i often find its better to simply not use Purge and keep the debuff on them.
TLDR: the piercing damage could feel more on par with the other damaging debuffs, i would say 20% less damage at 3~5 stacks would be enough.


Some skills could cost more AP as they are all very strong. Keeping 1 AP with 1turn CD skills is feeling very strong as for each two turns will get to use one more skill. I get it we have low AOE, but we, spectres, get to kill one of targets too fast.

I feel this class is Archer-tier, but personally i also think archers are too strong hahahah


Last but not least, i found out savage sortille is not needed for p.damage spells, is this right?

Originally posted by Slynx Jewel:

Kim, if you think that srectre is too strong i suggest you to try pure necromancer to compare.
necro3-fire2-hudro3-warfare10 (start with necro2-fire1-hydro1-warfare++ til you get at least 2 sp)
you'll quickly notice that your damage will be much higher (also i suggest shield throw to do something during cd) so that you'll barely notice the abscence of agony's dots.
most of the spectre's spells deal less damage then mosquito swarm.

though i don't say spectre is bad. it's an interesting and fun class with a feel of a real necromancer(instead of a plain blood mage) with interesting mechanics(though most of them can be replicated with other vanilla spells) and high mobility

Hi both, thanks both of you for comments and feedback.

Balancing is a tricky subject, as you can imagine. Inherently, class mods are generally unbalanced, just from the addition of more spells. More spells = more options = easier fights. On top of this, Lone Wolf is a bit of a nightmare to balance for too - the extra AP means it's even easier to exploit the increase in the number of skills.

This, in turn, leads to mixed feedback: some players feel my mods are "ZOMG OP?! HOW DARE YOU MAKE A FREE MOD WHICH IS TOO STRONG - DOWNVOTED", whereas others feel "WTH?! I'M DOING NO DAMAGE HOW DARE YOU MAKE A FREE MOD WHICH IS TOO WEAK - DOWNVOTED" . The reality is, each and every one of those players is doing something different on each of my classes and overhauls. Take Spectre as an example: some are abusing Elemental Affinity with Flesh Sacrifice, whereas some others are trying to use Lizard Spectres instead. For the most part, I have to trust my judgement on what makes a mod have a good enough level of balance so that people can have fun with it.

At the end of the day, fun is the reason why we play games, no? I feel so many people forget this nowadays and focus too much on "metas"

Whenever I make a class, I absolutely work my butt-off to make sure it's not inherently OP, nor inherently underpowered, and finding that sweet spot is like finding a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow - I want it to happen, but it doesn't feel like it ever can or will . My class and overhaul mods are here purely to bring different experiences to Divinity: Original Sin 2, such as stance-switching and stacking statuses, and the only reason why I spend weeks/months creating free content just because I love the game and Larian so much.

Regarding Spectre specifically, I've made it have inherent flaws to counter-balance the strength of stacking Agony. Examples of this include: minimal CC options, damage isn't 100% Physical making it harder to help another teammate CC, etc. Spectre's job is to rip into a target - take out the highest-priority enemy (as with normal Necro casters too).

To me, personally, I feel Spectre is in a good spot. The comparison against base game Necromancers is perfect IMO - Necros are easily the "best" classes to use (in terms of raw damage), especially in the late game. Having said that, I'll keep an eye on Agony's damage so thanks for that suggestion @Kim.

Anyway, I appreciate that I've written a book here so I'll stop now. Thanks again for your feedback - it's always greatly appreciated