Manor Lords

Manor Lords

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Manor Lord Perk Selection
By Chilled Sloth
Not all perks are created equal.

Many perks on the development tree do not work correctly, or have wrong or misleading descriptions. Here's some short info on each one, rectifying this, along with my suggestions on which perks are truly worth it.

Updated to 0.8.029. It is NOT UPDATED for the new beta yet (0.8.035b)!
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How the perks are actually working right now
  • Orchardry: take 4 harvests calendar years to mature (so 3-4 harvests depending on when you plant the orchard), 1 apple from every other tree at first, 3 per 2 trees when mature, only harvested in September by wife and son (prioritized labour)
  • Rye: not affected by wheat fertility reduction, but does affect wheat fertility itself; 50% larger yields at 100% fertility compared to wheat at 100% fertility, generally higher fertility in both fertile and infertile regions (basically it’s super-wheat for some reason)
  • Irrigation: correct AFAIK; droughts are random and can be very rare (when turned on)
  • Sheep: enables sheep reproduction; up to 2 lambs per 10 11 days, 145 days gestation; 66 lambs per year with more than 26 sheep
  • Plough: specifically mentions faster on large fields, but truly it conserves manpower and is ideal on strip fields that are rather long and narrow
  • Fertilization: technically correct AFAIK, but fertility fully restores without use of fallow if rotating crops, as a different crop counts as fallow in terms of regeneration; not sure how much faster fallow fields regenerate with sheep on them, but entirely superfluous currently
  • Bakery: often misunderstood, bread isn’t just produced twice as fast, but in a 1:2 ratio from flour Edit: flour is now produced 1:1 from grain, but bread 1:2 from flour via communal ovens or 1:4 via bakeries with this perk
  • Trapping: 5 meat every 6 months per camp/family, very inefficient
  • Pelts: doesn’t work at all
  • Skinning: doesn’t apply to trapping, doubles meat from deer, sheep/lambs, pigs and goats
  • Fishing: as described; can almost double yield with the correct limit set
  • Forest management: technically correct, often misunderstood because capacity does not affect yield; useless if you collect your berries fast enough before reaching capacity (which is easy to do, just use multiple forager huts with one family each)
  • Beekeeping: unlimited apiaries; a maximum of 2 honeycombs per day in a region with enough apiaries (1 worker each); no combs spawned if all apiaries still contain any combs or honey; up to 730 honey per year
  • Advanced beekeeping: AFAIK limited to 2 wax in the local storage, after which all production in the apiary stops; can tank honey production if not emptied quickly to a storehouse (unconfirmed)
  • Coal: correct; but requires more labour per fuel produced than woodcutters; since 0.8.017, coal production is more efficient than simply adding more firewoodcutters and foresters thanks to batch production. Plus, coal remains vastly overpriced, so it's great for exporting (but terrible as an import)
  • Deep mine: correct, can still be placed after rich deposit has run empty
  • Armour making tree: all correct, except currently no mail armour is needed to promote new retainers; import of armour is easier than investing the development points and setting up your own industry, while export is a net loss compared to selling iron slabs, iron parts etc.
  • Trade logistics: only halves cost of new trade routes, which increase with every new trade route added (trade routes are not needed on minor goods below 5 silver in worth)
  • Better deals: halves flat import tariffs from +10 to +5 silver (so way more important on cheap bulk goods); you can make so much money selling items that the trade perks are unattractive
  • Foreign suppliers: correct, but kind of a newbie trap, as it’s easy to bankrupt yourself instead of fixing your small production problem; should be one of each that creates a trickle of the good for free imho, like a get out of jail free card for beginners

Horemvore's suggested picks:

Post Scriptum
The policy 'hunting grounds' actually works for both regular and rich deer spawns - and it actually has a greater effect even in absolute terms on regular deer spawns.

The reproduction rate of deer will go from +1 every 19 days to every 4 days on regular deposits (+375%). This yields a maximum of 365 meat per year on average with the double meat perk.

The reproduction rate of deer will go from +1 every 7 days to every 3 days on rich deposits (+133%). This yields a maximum of 487 meat per year on average with the double meat perk.

Additionally, the crop yield will be reduced by significantly more than 50%.
Simply ignore the entire tooltip.

32 Comments
Chilled Sloth  [author] 1 Aug @ 7:38am 
Maybe the beekeepers used to harvest combs much, much faster, at which point you'd only need two apiaries to get the maximum spawn rate of 2 honeycombs per day, and more wouldn't help.

But since it takes iirc 5+ days for them to harvest a comb plus walking times and logistics, you'll need a lot more apiaries than 2 to reach that 2 per day limit.

A lot of things have outdated tooltips in ML. Fuel consumption e.g. isn't doubled in winter since EA release, yet there was a tooltip still claiming that.
Ale is Yum! 1 Aug @ 1:36am 
Thanks a lot for this thread, very useful.
The post-scriptum is also useful, but why does it say in-game that yields won't increase after the first two apiaries per region?
Chilled Sloth  [author] 14 Jul @ 3:44am 
I have build 30 once to confirm the maximum, but that's more than enough. With a dedicated granary next door, burgages nearby, no wax perk ('cause then the storeworkers would also have to empty that quickly), and maybe large veggie gardens for the wife and son, so they don't interfer much, you should theoretically be fine with 12-15. 50-60 honey per year is my output per apiary with low numbers. But I think I had 16 once and didn't quite reach the 730 honey per year maximum - though I didn't bother to truly optimize.

If you achieve that with 16 or less, let me know. But you gotta add the honey that was being consumed (luckily all food types are consumed equally).
RizzOtto 13 Jul @ 2:08pm 
I assume the info on beekeeping is correct, that means the tooltip in game is incorrect, which says that you can only have 2 apiaries per region? I think I remember being unable to build more than two, but I might misremember. In your experience, how many apiaries (provided one can build more than two) are required (each with one worker) to get to max production?
Chilled Sloth  [author] 16 Apr @ 12:16pm 
Hunting Grounds only affects farming, not backyards like apples or veggies (as those are entirely unaffected by fertility) @Anima Mundi.
It's still a decision to make though, because even with bad fertility it's useful to supplement your barley/malt imports with a low own production of barley, and thus keeping costs low. Obviously you can skip that if you have another fertile region producing barley for all of your infertile regions.

And yeah, Hunting Grounds is OP, especially for regular deer regions - as long as you don't do any farming there at all.
Chilled Sloth  [author] 16 Apr @ 12:16pm 
Those 66 lambs a year give you not just 66 hides/leather but also 132 meat, or 264 meat per year with the 2x meat perk (as that applies to deer, sheep, pigs and goats, but not trapping). If you have a town with 3 other food sources, you can produce enough meat for 88 families with that alone, so far from useless. And you'll always have deer, likely will add pigsties if you took the double meat perk anyhow, so you can more easily supply even large towns with meat with a minimal amount of labour invested.
Chilled Sloth  [author] 16 Apr @ 12:15pm 
The gestation (pregnancy) period is 145 days +- 1 or 2 days or so of variance. All sheep are ewes, so you get 26 lambs from 26 sheep every 145 days, or almost 66 lambs per 365 days. If you have more sheep than that, you reach the hard cap of about 66 lambs per year, because you can never have more than 2 lambs being born within the last 10 days plus the current day (so actually 11 days). The rest of the pregnant ewes will simply remain pregnant until you fall under this hard cap - so they might actually remain pregnant for many more months before the game allows them to birth a new lamb.

This is not the maturation period - iirc they take 1 full year to mature from new born lamb to sheep.

I usually just get 30 sheep, then set all lambs to be slaughtered for meat and hides (they give the same amount as mature sheep for some reason). And 30 sheep times 9 wool per year is way more yarn/clothes than anyone needs anyhow, especially until clothing is actually being consumed over time.
Anima Mundi 27 Mar @ 10:49pm 
@† N † no, it seems correct. You get 66 lambs per year, lambs are born every 10/11 days. That's the "gestation" period. What OP meant to say there for the 145 days is the maturing time, not gestation.

66 Lambs per year also seems to be the hard cap. I get this is made to limit trade exploitation, but then it makes it useless as a food source (max of 10 meat /month or 20 with skinning perk), while you can still scale up Yarn production and still exploit trade.
Makes this Sheep perk only attractive to fire and forget: get 26 sheep so the village can get a constant 660 silver /year.

This whole mechanic of livestock would be more immersive if it could be a viable food source and require the player balancing pastures with space for crops (or taking perk for Fenced fields), yarn production, and the ratio of slaughter to birth rate. my 2 cents
Anima Mundi 27 Mar @ 7:44pm 
Curious if the HG policy also affects backyard extensions, haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.
If not this should be even more attractive to any region with bad fert, saving a lot of space on veggies and apples
† NeoArchitector † 11 Mar @ 12:16am 
I don't quite understand how you get 66 lambs a year from 26 sheeps. 26 sheeps give 13 lambs every 145 (+-1) days. Isn't that right?