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ToB: Legitimacy & Mide

By Ernavill

I made this short guide to describe how legitimacy works when playing as Mide.

I noticed there is quite a bit of confusion on this mechanic while working on my achievement guide. So, while I initially wrote this as part of the achievement guide, I decided to create a separate guide. Especially as it soon took up too much space in an already extensive guide.

Feel free to ask any questions in the comments section, so I can update / improve the guide where necessary. And thank you to everyone who helped improve the information included in this guide!

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Created by

Ernavill
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Category: Gameplay Basics, Walkthroughs

Languages: English

Posted

Updated

12 Apr, 2020 @ 4:16pm

9 Dec, 2022 @ 11:23am

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Guide Index

Overview

Allies:

Settlements:

Raids:

Annex:

Technology:

Events:

Decrees:

Natural decline:

Buildings: (or lack thereof)

Payments:

Comments

Allies:

Forging alliances:
Creating an alliance (military or defensive) with other Irish factions will increase your legitimacy the most (something like +5). As far as I could tell this does not happen for allying yourself to non-Irish factions.

Liberty!:
Liberating (non-Irish) factions will also add a substantial boost to legitimacy.

Breaking alliances:
Breaking Alliances will results in a loss of legitimacy, so plan them wisely and be prepared to be dragged into a lot of wars.

Tip:

Since you get +legitimacy for both defensive and military alliances it is best to try sign a defensive alliance with a nation first, and afterwards trying to go for a military alliance. This will provide extra legitimacy (and if they are willing to pay for the Alliance, extra money as well).

Settlements:

Losing settlements:
When enemies conquer any settlement of yours, your legitimacy is lowered by -1 legitimacy.

Taking settlements:
Conquering a settlement in Ireland will increase your legitimacy by +1 (so this does not hold for settlements outside of Ireland).

This means it is not a problem to lose a settlement in Ireland, as taking it back will once again raise your legitimacy by the same amount. However, losing towns outside of Ireland means you lose legitimacy but do not get it back when you retake the settlement.

Tip:

If you are trying to annex all Irish-factions for the "A United Front" achievement, it is probably better to wait with any conquest outside of Ireland. Any settlements you lose outside of Ireland will just be a waste of Legitimacy.

Raids:

Setting your armies in raiding stance in enemy territories is a great way to improve legitimacy (+1 per army per turn).

Tip:

Beware that too much raiding can cause an unhappy populace. Apparently your people do not like a ruthless tyrant for a king . . . who'd have guessed.

Note: In a forum post, 'Mile pro Libertate' pointed out that: "if you raid neutral factions' regions, you lose Legitimacy".

Annex:

It takes 20 legitimacy to annex a faction. Only Irish Gaelic factions can be annexed as Mide, and factions can decline annexation even if you have 20 legitimacy.

Factors:
Your relationship with the faction (friendly/unfriendly) and and balance of power (the yellow/red bar in diplomacy) influence whether factions are likely to accept annexation. Generally if you are very friendly, or are much stronger than the other faction, annexation is more likely. Yet as with all diplomacy in this game: these factors help, but never guarantee success.

Vassals:
It is NOT possible to annex vassals, so if you want to annex a vassal it is important to first break the vassal kingdom status. Unlike breaking an alliance, this should not lower Legitimacy. So it is possible to break the vassal status and immediately annex them (you might want to save before trying this as they might decline annexation).

Tip:

Subjugating a faction does not increase legitimacy (as far as I could tell), but turning an Irish faction into a vassal through diplomacy does provide additional legitimacy. So it might still prove useful to create vassal kingdoms especially when you do not have sufficient legitimacy to annex them right away.

Technology:

There are two technologies that provide a (one time) +20 legitimacy bonus. While this can definitely be a beneficial boost, the technologies are far up their tech branches. This means that it can help to time when you unlock these two, yet they should probably not be given too much priority as the boost is not permanent.

Events:

As it has been a while since my Mide campaign I am not entirely sure what these events are. However, this likely means the faction events that occasionally pop up and pose a choice to player. Your choice then determines whether you legitimacy increases or decreases.

Decrees:

One of Mide's faction bonuses is "Fair of Tailtiu: A unique version of Decrees that has each option available more often but provide bonuses for a shorter period of time." These decrees cost (-3) legitimacy.

tip:

If you want to annex all Gaelic factions for the achievement it is probably best to avoid using decrees to save Legitimacy for annexation. If you do not want to annex all these factions, however, the decrees might make your playthrough easier.

Note: As 'Monaghan.bill' points out in the comments section of this guide, there is a decree that improves your diplomatic abilities. His initial testing suggests this might make the AI more likely to accept annexation. So, it might be worth trying this out for yourself.

Natural decline:

Legitimacy only declines over time when you are at war. It does NOT decline when you are completely at peace.

So try to keep your wars short and make peace as soon as you stop taking over settlements to prevent decline!

Buildings: (or lack thereof)

Unlike Circenn, Mide does not have buildings that improve legitimacy. The 'buildings' modifier is not even included in the list of factors (if you mouse-over the Legitimacy bar).

Trivia:

This lack of buildings seems to be the main reason why Legitimacy is seen as an impossible mechanic for Mide by many people. And therefore the main reason why I created this guide; to show there are plenty of mechanics you can utilise to influence your Legitimacy.

Payments:

In a forum post, 'Mile pro Libertate' pointed out that:

"You will gain Legitimacy from receiving monies via Diplomacy from other factions; you will lose Legitimacy when you make payments to other factions that are not gifts, e.g. pay another Gaelic faction to agree to a peace treaty".

I have not noticed this during my own playthrough, however, I have also not looked out for it particularly. So you might want to give this a try yourself to see whether it works.

23 Comments

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O B S E R V E R 10 Oct @ 11:19pm

So is it ONLY Mide which can perform annexation in the entire game?? Or can Wessex do it? In the diplo screen there is that cultural similarity to Mierce, which says its possible to annex them.

Also, where is the legitimacy bar even at? How do I know how much I have?

cybergroover 18 Jul, 2024 @ 9:18am

Many thanks for this guide. I see that https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/app/712100/discussions/0/3166519278509347739/ adds: "Each turn you are war, and not doing anything against enemies, you will suffer a "-1 natural decline" malus...To prevent this, you must either 1) conclude peace with your enemies, or 2) take some action against enemies, such as raid an enemy region, capture an enemy settlement, or defeat one of their forces in battle."

Love&Gratitude 11 Mar, 2024 @ 7:15pm

Aren't you supposed to get a legitimacy boost when you assist an ally in a defensive battle ?

Econ 22 Jan, 2024 @ 4:05am

I read that the natural decline during in war can be prevented if you defeat an enemy army that turn:
https://gtm.steamproxy.vip/app/712100/discussions/0/3166519278509347739/

Econ 8 Jan, 2024 @ 4:34pm

Very useful guide - Mide is an intricate campaign if you want to annex 4 Irish factions (they tend to disappear fast). The two lots of 20 legitimacy from techs were a big deal for me, as that's two annexations "free". It was hard to accumulate legitimacy before that, as I was always over-stretched militarily - wars tended at best to break even in legitimacy as I could not spare armies to raid, nor did I want to raid in Ireland. Once you get big, you have armies to spare to raid elsewhere, but that was a slow process for me, as I did not want to alienate Irish factions.

Ireland tends to consolidate into a northern lord+vassal and a southern lord+3 vassals. You can't annex the vassals, but you can annex their masters - they often are weaker than their vassals.

You don't get legitimacy for taking settlements by annexation, so there may be something to be said logic in annexing small factions.

erick 12 Sep, 2023 @ 9:19pm

Playing now and got some good tips I have been trying out. I got a faction down to 1 main settlement and just raided it with a couple armies. Using a one man army to surround settlement. Was gaining 5 or 6 a turn on legitimacy. Then annexed them in a surrender. Moved in and out to gain supplies. Of course you need to be close to your one man army so he isn't attacked.

mrovereasy 27 May, 2023 @ 4:18pm

@snoopyah idk what you are doing, or if they updated since when you played, but I found my legitimacy being maxxed out easily.

Expand slowly and make sure to honor calls to war, and be careful when making treaties so that you don't get friendly with someone you will declare on in a few turns.

Ernavill [author] 12 Jun, 2022 @ 10:57am

"Taking settlements:
Conquering a settlement in Ireland will increase your legitimacy by +1 (so this does not hold for settlements outside of Ireland).

Natural decline:
Legitimacy only declines over time when you are at war. It does NOT decline when you are completely at peace.

So try to keep your wars short and make peace as soon as you stop taking over settlements to prevent decline!"

You don't have to be fully defensive. Just end wars as quickly as possible when it doesn't yield any land in Ireland. Plan short effective wars to capture several settlements and then sue for peace.

Yah A.K 24 May, 2022 @ 4:55pm

No matter what I do legtimacy always sucks like It somehow always go negative. people start war with me and I guess I have to be completely defenesive huh

Ernavill [author] 21 Aug, 2021 @ 1:47am

Thanks for the feedback, I added it to the guide.

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