DARK SOULS™: Prepare To Die Edition

DARK SOULS™: Prepare To Die Edition

37 ratings
Thrusting Swords and You
By Thyrus
A guide for the use of Thrusting Swords effectively in PvP.
   
Award
Favorite
Favorited
Unfavorite
Introduction
Thrusting Swords are weapons that are not heavily used due to their odd niche in the weapon families of Dark Souls. This guide will will focus on the pros and cons of thrusting swords, basic strategies for use, and overviews of each individual weapon for use in PvP, but these strategies will also apply to PvE.
Pros and Cons
First of all, let’s look at the general pros and cons for thrusting swords. These will vary slightly for the different weapons in this category, but generally, thrusting swords possess the following traits:

Pros
• Relatively fast attack speed.
• Longer reach than most weapons their size.
• Can perform the R1 attack from behind a shield.
• All thrusting attacks can deal extra Counter damage when hitting an enemy mid-swing.
• Focus on mobility allows the user to dive in and out of range, dealing damage and dodging hits.
• Hidden critical bonus makes backstabs/ripostes deadly.
• Low weight.

Cons
• Slightly lower damage than most weapons their size.
• Thrusting attacks have a small hit radius.
• Awful at poise breaking.
• Awful at shield breaking.
• Balanced STR/DEX scaling means high stats are required for decent damage.
The Basics
So, with that out of the way, let’s talk about the basic strategies to get the most out of your thrusting sword of choice. As mentioned above, thrusting swords tend to have a bit less damage than other weapons. In order to use them effectively, you must try to dodge hits as much as possible, as you will not be able to trade hits with other players effectively unless they are using a weak weapon or one that you have high resistance to.
However, thrusting swords have some built-in countermeasures to assist with this. Most notably is the running R1 and forward+R1 attacks. The running R1 is a dashing stab attack that hits twice in the period of about half a second. Not only can you land both attacks on an enemy with a bit of practice, but these attacks actually do more damage than a regular R1 attack, to the point where getting both hits with the running R1 is almost equivalent to three much slower regular R1 attacks. This is one of the most powerful moves that thrusting swords have access to, and must be mastered in order to use them effectively.
The second move, the forward+R1 attack, is a replacement for the normal ‘kick’ attack performed with other weapons. It is a quick, low swipe followed by a backwards jump, and can be very effective at finishing a combo of attacks on an enemy, as it allows you to get in one more hit while also swiftly dodging backwards out of range of their retaliation. Although not as powerful as the running R1, it is still very useful and knowing when to use it can make the difference between a losing trade or a free hit.
Again, as mentioned above, a key part of using thrusting swords is to take advantage of their mobility. It is for this reason that using a thrusting sword on a heavy character is not recommended, as the lower damage output means that you can’t just sit there and tank hits from your opponent while you stab away. Being under the 25% equip load threshold for fast movement and rolling is highly recommended to make full use of a thrusting sword. Essentially, you will be dodging attacks and running around, countering enemies when they attack, and attacking from behind a shield when you can’t dodge. Thrusting swords demand a defensive and reactionary stratagem.
Individual Weapons
Now let’s get into the specific weapons to choose from. There are five thrusting swords in the game: the Rapier, the Estoc, the Mail Breaker, Ricard’s Rapier, and Velka’s Rapier. Each one has individual strengths and weaknesses, and the following sections should give some insight as to which weapon would be most effective in your hands. I suggest trying out all of them to get a feel for each one.
Rapier
The most basic thrusting sword. It has good damage and a good moveset, and its R2 attacks have a lot of range and damage, while still being quite fast. The rapier is the second shortest thrusting sword, just after the Mail Breaker; however, it also has a 10% critical bonus, and does the highest critical damage out of all the thrusting swords because of this. It is also second to the Mail Breaker in terms of weight, weighing only 1.5 units. This weapon is a great all-around performer and a very versatile weapon.
Estoc
The heaviest of the thrusting swords, the Estoc is a long sword that does slightly more damage than its brothers, but lacks any critical bonus. Although it is the heaviest, and also has a longer recovery time after R1 stabs, it can easily hold its own and its long range makes it better for poking enemies for counters. Its R2 attacks are horizontal swings which can catch opponents off-guard, especially when coming out of a roll, and it is slightly better at shield breaking than its siblings.
Mail Breaker
The Mail Breaker is the smallest and lightest thrusting sword, weighing only 0.5 units. It is very slightly faster than the other thrusting swords, but has the least range and very low damage, making it mostly inferior to the other swords in its class. It has the highest critical bonus, but due to its pathetic damage, it is still worse for criticals than the other thrusting swords. The use of this weapon is not recommended.
Ricard's Rapier
This weapon has a very unique moveset. The R2 attack is replaced with a quick double stab that has a short startup time. Pressing R2 after this attack will trigger another 4 quick stabs, for a total of six attacks in the period of just over a second. This allows Ricard’s Rapier to dish out an insane amount of damage if the entire combo is landed, but due to the close proximity of the attacks, it can be parried if not used sparingly. Ricard’s has higher DEX scaling but lower STR scaling than its brethren, making it easier to use if your character has high DEX, as improving STR does not increase its attack by much. However, because of this, with high STR and DEX, the Rapier and Estoc will outdamage Ricard’s by a noticeable amount. This sword is slightly longer than the Rapier, but does not have a critical bonus, and this along with its lower damage makes criticals slightly weaker than the others.
Velka’s Rapier
This sword is an enchanted weapon that scales with INT and deals magic damage. It has low STR scaling and mediocre DEX scaling, but good INT scaling- it goes without saying that this weapon should only be used by sorcerers. Velka’s Rapier does decent damage, although the damage is split between magic and physical. It is the same length as the Estoc, but does not suffer from the Estoc’s higher weight and R1 speed penalty. Velka’s R2 attack is replaced with a V-shaped vertical double slash, which can be followed up with a heavy thrust attack as a second R2.
Conclusion
Hopefully this guide will provide some helpful information on the use of Thrusting Swords. As an avid Dark Souls player, I find it disappointing that a lot of versatile and powerful weapons go unnoticed by most, mainly because they aren't aware of some of their greatest strengths that aren't apparent at first glance. I aim to encourage players to try out underused weapons like Thrusting Swords, as they may like what they see.
21 Comments
Better call Socas 22 Aug, 2016 @ 4:59am 
Like i hatewjen people trash talk the rapier class , people like me use the rapiers not for insane damage or parry/bs fish or even poise breaking, i love them cuz of the move set(especially the estoc) nothing better than finishing a duel with swag while not being a fucktard tryhard, by the way reverse backstep R1s are op
Rymd 19 May, 2016 @ 7:52am 
Estoc actually has a hidden crit damage bonus.
Lathbalrog 10 Mar, 2015 @ 11:07am 
Ricard's Rapier R2 cannot be parried,
Kibbles 10 Mar, 2014 @ 6:22pm 
How to use thrusting swords:
1: Full giants and greatshield
2: Estoc with DMB or SLB
3: Turtle and spam r1
4: ???
5: profit


Harry MacDowell 27 Nov, 2013 @ 1:41am 
(continued) - Making the most out of attacks, like equipping the Leo Ring for betters counters and Hornet Ring for better criticals. It also wouldn't be complete without mentioning buffs, i.e. like Ricard's R2 combo can cause the most potential damage when buffed and that Velka's cannot be buffed at all.

- Other relevant equipment. Since rapiers have their crit bonus, some may favor a parrying dagger, buckler or target shield in the left hand. Turtles may opt for faster stamina recovery by way of Grass Crest or Cloranthy Ring.
Harry MacDowell 27 Nov, 2013 @ 1:41am 
The basics are covered very well in this guide. There are a few things I'd recommend adding in order to make it more thorough, espcially regarding PvP. Other commenters have mentioned some of these.

- Specific tactics, such as fishing the opponent to attack. With the dash button held down to decrease wind-up time, punish with a dashing R1 attack during/after the opponent's swing/cast, depending on the specific attack.

- Parry/punish prevention. Vary the timing of your attacks and combos and identify BS fishers early on. Focus on maneuvering while locked-off to setup punishments and stay as unpredictable as possible. Avoids spams and stay locked-off when performing R2 combos so you can purposely whiff mid-combo when an opponent starts parry-spamming. (continued)
tree004 23 Nov, 2013 @ 6:25pm 
good
shadow milhouse 20 Nov, 2013 @ 6:49pm 
I always generally focus on a vit end str build for most of the game, then when i have good stats and equip load, i start pouring into dex and the lighter weapons :P
Umi Nova 17 Nov, 2013 @ 11:21am 
i always thought the blade side sword was more thrusting than slicing. which is what i use right now im my dex build, with my longbow.
Val 10 Nov, 2013 @ 4:44am 
Nice read. I'm not much into pvp, but I've tried to make rapier-wielding pyrosorc (inspired by FFTA Red Mage class). To cut the long story short - it felt so weak that I've swapped to furysword as my main weapon asap, and then got lighting BSS to complement it. And never unsheathed my +15 Estoc again.
I'm pretty sure that I'd screwed up my stats somewhere mid-NG, but still.
And also, seriously, someone even consider using Mail Breaker? Bandit Knife seems to be so much better.