Borderlands 2

Borderlands 2

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Krieg the Axe-Maniac
By Mighty
"If you ever wanted to slash your enemies into tiny bits while screaming about bicycles made of meat, then by Jove, Krieg's a chap for you!" -Sir Hammerlock

Welcome to my guide to playing Krieg's Mania tree. This guide will tell the simples of pressing the F key (or whatever you Action key is) and slashing your enemies to keep you alive.

LAST UPDATED: 6 April @ 12:47pm
   
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The basics of your Action Skill.



Krieg's Action Skill is with no doubt, the utter essential of the Mania tree.

When you activate Buzz Axe Rampage, you will gain a 500% (5x) bonus melee damage for about 17 seconds. During the Rampage, you can only melee, but you have the ability to throw your axe, too (Right click, then left click).

Seems a bit risky, right? Well guess what, any time Krieg kills an enemy during the Rampage, he will get ALL his health back! You might say its a wee bit overpowered, but come to later stages of the game, and you will probably take that back.

Buzz Axe Rampage has a cooldown of 120 seconds (2 minutes), but it's cooldown is slightly accelerated when you take damage. "How is this essential if i can barely use it most of the time?!" You might be saying. Don't worry, by the time you get more levels, cooldowns will likely be the last thing you will complain about...
Skill points - Section 1
The mania tree is all about your Buzz Axe Rampage. It involves next to no shooting, but still can be reliant to do so. This guide also is also here to explain the Mania tree for low levels, so its not meant to be a Super high level guide.


This skilltree is at level 47

NOTE: All skills below are explained in their maxed state.

At the earlier levels (6-12 or so) a good idea is to always grab Pull the Pin(). When killed (like, really killed), you will drop a live grenade on the ground, right where you are. If this grenade kills an enemy, you will recieve twice the EXP from the enemy. Its not a very powerful skill, but still can be reliant if you are lucky enough. If you can, try to damage a powerful enemy / boss low enough and see if you can kill them with a Pull the Pin grenade. Its very risky, but can affect your EXP highly.

Next up, you should max out is Feed the Meat(). It grants +50% more health, making it super useful in the early levels, and scales well in later levels, but increases the Shield recharge delay by 2.5 Seconds. The Recharge delay pratically only helps us as Krieg is most powerful when his shield is depleted.

Empty the Rage() Is a skill that, in almost any case, must be taken and maxed. It grants a passive +20% to your Melee damage, but grants an additional +50% if your weapon magazine or shield is depleted which is why Feed the Meat is a must-have with this skill, along with the upcoming Embrace the Pain. This can grant up to +70% (higher if you have a class mod that grants it extra points.) melee damage bonus, which works great with your Buzz Axe Rampage.
Skill points - Section 2
Now we reach the 2 next skills,
Embrace the Pain,() and Fuel the Rampage()

Firstly, i want to talk about Fuel the Rampage. This is where the fun begins (if it didnt already begin at level 5.) This skill will increase the cooldown rate of your Buzz Axe Rampage when you recieve damage by a +100%, which is multiplied with the cooldown rate Buzz Axe Rampage already has. This is only shield damage however. Taking HEALTH damage will double the effect to +200%, making Buzz Axe Rampage charge incredibly fast in fights!

This also allows your allies to deal 30% Friendly Fire aganist you, which, generally is actually bad especially if your teammates uses large AoE and splash damage weapons like grenades or rocket launchers, as they can take you, along with their intended target(s) down. However it can be useful in downtimes between fights to allow them to charge your active for you. (or just troll you and kill you :p)

Now, after hitting level 31 and have skilled "You Know What Skill.". You might have to consider swapping points from this skill into others that may be more useful. Because of "You Know What Skill." instantly refreshing your Active when it runs out.

Next skill is Embrace the Pain. When your shield is fully depleted, you will gain +35% fire rate on all guns. It also increases the recharge delay even further by 5 seconds. This can be powerful with guns that normally have a low fire rate, but since this is a Melee guide, then... Yeah. Although its not very useful for a sole melee guide, the extra Recharge Delay may be useful for other skills.
Skill points - Section 3
We now enter the next layer of skills, which includes
Thrill of the Kill,() Light the Fuse,() and Strip the Flesh.()

First thing, consider taking Light the Fuse. And i do mean CONSIDER as it can change the playstyle of Krieg immensly.

"Tick Tock!" -Krieg

This skill is pretty awesome. This overrides your Fight For Your Life with Light The Fuse. Light The Fuse will give you regular mobilty such as sprinting or jumping, while replacing your weapons with a throwable stick of dynamite. The sticks thrown can be hard to hit, but there is no risk of taking damage, so just walk up close to them and spam their faces. When the time is up (Or if you just choose bleedout), You will do a Kamikaze that heavily damages everyone around you. If you kill an enemy with the Kamikaze or thrown dynamite sticks, you will revive yourself. If not, you die.

This is why its important to deal as much damage as possible by throwing, and then in the last few seconds run up in a bunch and explode.

Also, the time there was remaining in Light the Fuse! as you get second wind, will be granted in a +40% movement speed buff.

Example: If you are downed and there is 7 seconds left of Light The Fuse! and you quickly kill an enemy, you will then recieve a 7 second buff with +40% Movement speed

In the length of your gameplay, this will skill lose its effectiveness, the damage will by time not be enough to take down enemies fast enough. However, in Co-Op gameplay can this skill still be useful for survival as you can run at normal speed to an ally who is behind cover so they can easily revive you.

Thrill of the Kill will cause up to 90% Overkill damage into health.

Overkill damage is damage thats above the victims current life.

Example. If you shoot a Marauder with only 500 hp left, with a damage amount of 15714 (some random number), then 90% of 15714 will given to you as health.

This is actually very powerful, but as you remember, Buzz Axe Rampage still gives you full health on kill. However if its on cooldown, then try to find a weak enemy and damage them low enough to melee them, the excess damage will in many cases give you full HP. The percentage of this will start low, but the lower health you are, the higher the percentage will be, up to the said 90%.

Strip the Flesh will increase Explosive damage by +15%. This effect is doubled when in downed.

This can be a good skill to pick if you use Torgue weapons. But remember, its doubled when you are downed, and Light the Fuse is explosive damage...I'll have you figure that out yourself.

Although i havnt really recommended it, a personal favourite of mine is a Unkempt Harold (Double Penetrating if possible). Combine the Massive explosive power this weapon gives with Slag & Strip The Flesh, can give unrealistic amounts of damage. Just watch your ammo supply!
Skill points - Section 4
Next two skills on the next layer are
Redeem The Soul() and Salt the Wound()

Redeem the Soul is a bit technical, but i'll explain the best i can. Anytime the duration of your Buzz Axe Rampage is up, you get a one time use of its effect. Lets call this a Soul Charge. These "Soul Charges" are invisible and stacks up every time Buzz Axe Rampage is used (unsure if there's a cap of them). Pressing "E" on a downed ally (or whatever you have bound the action button to) spends one of these soul charges and instantaneously "swaps" the life-state of Krieg and the target (Ally revives, Krieg gets downed.) It also extends Kriegs downed time (FFYL! or LTF!) by +50%

The active portion of this can only be used in co-op. This skill is actually strangely powerful on Krieg as he has a quite easier time reviving himself with Light The Fuse! then allies might do slowed with weapons. Even if he cant kill enemies with it, he still has the ability to run at full speed to an ally, who can move to a safer position to revive.

FOR THE GREATER GOOD!

Even in singleplayer, it can be useful to grab this skill, as it's only a single point and the extended downed time is super useful.

Salt the Wound is a quite powerful skill if you know you are gonna enter a long term battle.

Anytime you take damage (Health damage, not shield) you will gain one stack of Salt The Wound. Each stack grants +7.5% Melee damage and +5% Shotgun damage, with a maximum of 20 stacks.

With a Full stack, you can get +150% Melee damage and +100% Shotgun damage, where in this build, the Melee damage will be the most important, but feel free to use a shotgun. Torgue Shotguns for even better effect if you have Strip the Flesh
Skill points - Section 5
Next layer only contains a single skill (just like the Bloodlust and Hellborn tree does too):
Silence the Voices()

"GET OUT OF MY HEAD!" -Krieg

This is a really powerful skill, but beware as it can come back to bite' ya!

Silence the Voices will grant a staggering +250% increase in Melee Damage! But, there is a risky catch to this.. Anytime you use a melee attack, be it during Buzz Axe Rampage Melee or a regular melee strike, you have a 12% chance to instead hit yourself on the head, dealing quite heavy self-damage and basicly rendering you unable to attack for it's duration The melee bonus increases each level, however the chance to self-strike doesn't. This can be very disruptive when fighting, as it can change the tide of your battle in a second! Althrough its mostly negative, you can use it while you have free time to charge up your Buzz Axe Rampage if you are impaitient. Also, it's quite hillarious seeing Krieg smack himself :p

Usually, when you are in a hard fight against something, the thing that will usually happen is.

1. You will hit yourself
2. You will hit yourself again
3. You will hit yourself again once more
4. You will be downed.
5. You cant get a second wind
6. You will die.
7. You will smash your keyboard and ragequit
The End. You will probably see this sequence happen alot. Except 7.
Release the Beast. (O_O) A.K.A Section 6
Here it is. The final, and awesomest (thats a word now) skill in the Mania tree. Behold:

The "You Know What Skill."
Release The Beast



"I'VE GOT A HUGE HAND!!" -The Badass Mutant Psycho Krieg


Oh Boy. This skill. This is where Krieg gets really insane. Literally.

After this skill is picked, Anytime Krieg uses his Buzz Axe Rampage when his health is below 33% of max, you will transform into a mother-flippin' Badass Mutant Psycho!! HOW BADASS IS THAT? More then you might initially think!

As soon as you activate Buzz Axe Rampage below 33% HP, you will regain all health back! Again! During your even deadlier rampage, you now deal +100% extra Melee Damage, which stacks on top of all your other damage-boosting skills, gives jaw-dropping amounts of damage.

If that was not enough, Krieg will also recieve +50% damage reduction from all sources while in this state!

AND! If that was still not enough, after the duration is over, will Buzz Axe Rampage be ready instantly. Did i mention there is no cooldown on Release the beast? Now i did. That's Krieg for you.

This may seem overpowered as hell, but remember some important things:
1. Although 50% damage reduction is a lot, you are still prone to taking plenty damage from enemies. Dont overestimate the power of this ability, or it might be your downfall.
2. You truly rely on getting kills during Release the Beast, as there is almost no other way of regaining health other then slicing peoples heads off. So dont run, and continuously keep up with your enemies and using thrown axes to slow them and catch up to them.
3. You cant stop your Rampage until the timer runs out, so always be weary of your health, because if its not possible to regain health on kills, you need to reactivate your Release the Beast again to refill your HP.
4. The 100% Bonus damage from this skill does not actually multiply with the bonus from Buzz Axe Rampage. It happens in ADDITION to it. So you actually gain 500% plus 100% from this skill.

(This icon will appear when you are below 33% HP = ) so keep a good eye out for when to time your Active.
Playstyle
Although it seems that you simply have to press F and tear butts, but there are some things that you should keep in mind:

Firstly, prior to getting Release the Beast, you should always use your Buzz Axe Rampage as most as you can. A useful thing to try to do, is get a kill, RIGHT before the duration on Buzz Axe Rampage is up. This will give you full health as you know, which allows you to take the full damage for your Buzz Axe Rampage to be ready again.

Once you hit Level 31, and skill Release the Beast, you should never activate the normal usage of Buzz Axe Rampage. As soon as you activate Release the Beast, you will be invincible for the duration of the transformation animation. This, if well timed can save you from certain death.

If you get downed, find the weakest target you can, and toss as many Dynamites you can on him/her/it. You could also try to quickly run in the middle of a lot of enemies and detonate yourself to see if you are lucky or not. If you werent, you can probably still get extra EXP with Pull the Pin if you have a powerful enough grenade mod.

Badasses? Pfft, i think we all know who the real badass is. If you dont know, its Krieg. Badass enemies should really be no problem, but if you see you cant really take them down quick enough, quickly step back, and see if you can kill something else with a slice/thrown axe.

If you have unlocked Ultimate Vault Hunter Mode (UHVM), thats when you really need to keep slicing to stay alive, As you will go down in almost an instant. Another thing to be said in UHVM is that Slag is the most important thing you should have. Get a Slag SMG/Repeater Pistol (Works together with Embrace the Pain), in order to quickly slag a powerful target, then use Release the Beast when possible.

Also if you have the Ultimate Vault Hunter Pack and is in level 61, Some skills in the Bloodlust tree to aid in your Buzz Axe Rampage. I wont really explain them, but i'll name the most vital ones: Taste Of Blood, Blood Trance, Buzz Axe Bombardier and Fuel the Blood. ESPECIALLY, If you can, then get a class mod that boosts Blood Trance, such as Slayer of Terramorphous. Because if you have, say 9 points in the skill, which you can get the extra 4 from the latter class mod, then you will get 0.45+ seconds of extra BAR(Buzz Axe Rampage) Duration per stack of bloodlust. If you activate BAR at 100. That'll be 0.45 * 100 = 45 EXTRA DURATION. Thats sick. Really sick.

Really the true playstyle of the Mania tree is "Risk for Reward". You'll be throwing yourself into danger at all times, where it'll go either two ways. You die, or you live.

Just remember: Do Not Fear.

Late update:

Okay now, if you have both Ultimate Vault hunter packs so you can reach level 72 into the other trees, the Bloodlust tree contains some über useful skills.

Many of the skills already there increases your damage upon kill, and, like i mentioned above, can increase the length of your Active. However, Bloodsplosion, the very final skill in the tree, is just monsterous. Since Krieg, even on higher Overpower levels, deals so immense damage that he can rip a bandit in half by just looking at them, the Overkill damage he applies to a bloodsplosion is so strong, if done correctly in the right scenario, can kill Raid bosses within 5 to 10 seconds. No kidding.

Video made by ArrowKeyGaming.

It may be a little weird what happens in the video, but basicly what he does is stacking Salt the wound and other melee building factors
(he did it without guns and barely any bloodlust stacks in this video, which is even more impressive.)gathering minions around and slagging them, before finally hitting one with a huge critical slag smash, (that gives a good vibe.) The first kill sets up a a bloodsplosion which dosn't hurt Pete that much, but then kills the OTHER minions with it, gathering all the damage together into one HUGE bloodsplosion, killing a level 74 RAID BOSS PYRO PETE WITH A SINGLE MELEE STRIKE.

I have done this trick myself many times, and once you get the pattern down, its really easy

(OPTIONAL, BUT MAKES IT EASIER) 1. Gather bloodlust stacks with any weapon.
2. Spawn minions (i prefer the rats)
3. Slag them, and get your shield destroyed
4. Use Buzz Axe Rampage (or the Rapier Melee weapon mentioned in the weapons section.)
5. ???
6. Profit! Lots of Profit!

Of course, many factors comes into this, such as shield, skills, mods, e.t.c. So be sure you have the strongest build possible!
Weapons?
What weapons?


Well, since the most of Kriegs Mania power lies in his Buzz Axe Rampage, he dosnt need to use his weapons so often. But still, having them can always help.

Some of my few choices:

Rapid Infinity

This isnt really a serious weapon to use, and its mostly just for fun. It has quite a good synergy with Embrace the pain, where, as i said, you can spray a million bullets quickly.

(This item has a chance to be dropped from Doc Mercy in Three-Horns Valley)

Torgue Shotguns



Any torgue (shot)guns will work great, since they are always Explosive, which works great with Strip the Flesh. If you have a Shotgun, then it works even greater with Salt the Wound, too.

BIG UPDATE: By the time you read this, i have gotten level 72 with the UVHP 2, so i have some bit new suggestions for items. You can read further on the next section

I talked about how weapons were a bit of a misunderstood proportion of Kriegs playstyle. However one weapon in particular (and some others too) had risen up to become the greatest weapon of them all to Krieg: The Rapier.

The Rapier is a assault rifle that is exclusive to the Captain Scarlett DLC. In a side quest in the DLC called "Message in a bottle" (Hayter's Folly Mission, there are many different missions of the same name in the DLC). You have to find a hidden chest behind a large stone cliff by shooting out a bottle (i believe, cant quite remember). After that you find a chest with the weapon as reward.

The sole reason why this weapon is the best thing ever for krieg is the Blade Attachment to it. Many weapons have blade attachments, right? So why is this a special case you ask? Its because the damage from the blade is DOUBLED. From a 100% increased melee damage to 200%. Screw shooting with it. Stabbing with it is what matters. This increase in melee damage (THIS IS JUST MY SPECULATION OF IT, IM NOT 100% SURE IF THIS IS THE CASE) multiplies the damage from all of your melee damaging abilites! (Except Buzz Axe Rampage, since, you know, you pull the weapon away.) So get this weapon, its really awesome for Krieg.

The only MAJOR (and i really said only) downside to this weapon is that when wielding it, you get the Curse of the Porcelain Fist, causing Krieg himself to take additional damage from enemy melee attacks, however that downside can really only help, since it makes it easier to use Release the Beast :p

I already explained the Unkempt Harold, but lets still go in depth with it shall we?

The Unkempt Harold is a Legendary Weapon. It is dropped by Savage Lee in the Three Horns - Divide. However this weapon can easily be bought for 613 T-Tokens in Torgue's DLC in the Torgue Vending machines.

The shots fired by this weapon splits up as they fly through the air, multiplying into 3, and then 7, without loss of damage. Yes. The damage is not divided among the projectiles. Crazy.

Now the best varient you can EVER EVER get to this gun is Double Penetrating. This causes you to shoot 2 explosives shots instead of just one, and yes. Yes i say, the second projectile shot ALSO splits. Awesome as sh*t. Now this also means it costs double ammo and fires at a slower rate. Infact, every shot takes 6 ammo away from you instead of the normal variant 3. Thats actually alot, so be mindful of your ammo.

Now the final weapon i wanna mention is kind of a exploit, but i figured i should mention it.

The Grog Nozzle from TTAODK DLC is a mission-only item from the Mission "The Beard Makes The Man". In the side-mission you obtain the weapon in order to "drunkify" dwarves and lead them to a crusher to obtain beard parts. Now what you wanna do is accept the mission, and then leave it forever (if you want.) You can now keep the weapon FOREVER. Every time you log off and join in again, you recieve a different varient of the gun, but its still the same.

This weapon has basicly no damage, like tickling levels of damage. However it has a unusually high chance of applying a elemental effect, and the ONLY effect can and will ever spawn with is Slag. This is why the weapon is so great, because in UHVM, Slag has a higher damage multiplier then it does in THVM or the first playthrough. The slag is super important in the later levels of the game, so thats why this weapon is a holy grail. As an awesome additional boost, 65% of the damage done while holding the weapon is returned as health. Say wut again? 65%? YES. Now the balance to this is that it only deals 80% less damage of what normal weapons do at your level, so thats why Krieg can use it even better. If he melees somebody while holding the weapon in hand, he heals so much of the damage back, that it's basicly just "Melee --> Full health" at this point.

More info about mods, shields and relics in next section.
Misc. Items
Now, maybe guns arent so important for Krieg in this tree. But certain other things are.


Here are some Misc items i use.

(NOTE: These are just my items, if you cant find them, see if you can find something equal to it or if you find something better, feel free to use those instead.)


Deadly Bloom


This shield is quite powerful on its own, depending on what level you are. It also has a quite long recharge delay. (Which is actually good). The main thing about it, though, is the Fire Nova it releases. Not only does it release a Nova when shields are depleted, but also releases one when your Health gets depleted! This often means, that as soon as you get downed, you will in most cases get a instant Second wind, if enemies around are low enough health.

(This shield is recieved from completing the side quest "The Overlooked: This Is Only A Test"


Pain Meat Class Mod


This class mod grants even more shield recharge delay and a low health regeneration, while granting extra points to Embrace the Pain, Salt the Wound, and Empty the Rage

(This Class Mod was dropped from the BNK-3R)


Bonus Package


This grenade mod will spawn a bunch a child grenades on explosion, like many other of these types. However, whats special about this one, is that the child grenades will spawn another set of child grenades on their explosion. This, combined with Pull the Pin can probably yank in quite a bit of EXP

(This Grenade Mod has a low chance of being dropped from Boom & Bewm)


Vitality Relic


This is a very simple relic, which boosts your health quite a bit. Works with Feed the Meat too.

You may obviously know or have something better, so feel free to add comments down below of your suggestions!

BIG UPDATE: By the time you read this, i have gotten level 72 with the UVHP 2, so i have some bit new suggestions for items.

The only type of mods i can sorta recommend are Legendary mods. Really. The best farming place for such a mod is behind Ellies garage to the graveyard place (forgot the mission name). On the way there, there is a small chance (although not tiny) to meet a Chubby version of Spiderants, these guys are tough and dangerous but ALWAYS, and i repeat ALWAYS drop a Legendary class mod. But the character it's assigned to is random, so you wont always get a mod for you character, so its all about grinding :(


The Love Thumper is a popular one, but actually not for me. It has a staggering 3 minutes recharge time, practically begging to be used by Krieg, but in all of my cases, the roid damage always seems to be sup-par to my other shields, but thats perhaps just me.


In my case, the best Shield i could ever find, besides the Hide of Terramorphous (which i cant get because i have no friends :[ ) is the Seraph "Pun-chee." Roid Shield from a Seraph vendor in Torgue's COC DLC. This shield is ULTRA POWERMODE, but usually have a quite short recharge time, worsening it for Krieg.
Atleast it is for me, possibly you can find a better version.
_______________________________________________________________________________
For a relic, Anything that grants either Melee Damage or just plain Health boost is great. Either the Might of the seraphs (also from Torgue's DLC) or the Blood of the seraphs from Captain Scarlett's DLC. The Might relic increases Melee damage by up to 46% (Approx.) and also decreases Active cooldown, and the Blood relic gives a large boost in health and grants % health regen which is kinda sweet. In my opinion the Might of the Seraphs is the better one as increased Melee damage is all you could ever ask for. Health regen dosnt even matter :P

As for grenades, i have no general recommendation, since you should barely use grenades. Pick whatever you like :P
Conclusion
All that has to be said about Krieg, is that he is insane. Like, really insane.

Thank you all for watching my first steam guide. Hope you find it useful in your journey of slicing people in half!



splash made by me :P

Oh, and also. There is no fence on this fence.
57 Comments
Werewolfkirby 8 Sep, 2019 @ 3:58pm 
i should mention if this hasn't been mentioned already, when the release the beast starting animation is playing your immune to all forms of damage during that time so you can just run up to enemies so you can get the first hit quickly
Mighty  [author] 25 Dec, 2016 @ 8:24am 
@Santa Claus

I would assume it's a pretty good weapon because of the explosion damage. Attack speed is slow, but can be remedied with the attack speed from "Embrace the pain". In personal experience, i haven't had one that dealt a lot of damage. Since the blades don't do melee damage AFAIK, it dosnt work too well with my build in this guide.
DripDrap 24 Dec, 2016 @ 2:34am 
@Mightfighter how about the SWORDSPLOSION shutgon in tiny tina's dlc? would that work?
mirage 18 Jun, 2015 @ 9:34pm 
Just got the BL2 GOTY for $10 on summer sale, and this guide was very helpful, as I began playing as Krieg. Thanks!
Glazier Squirrel 5 Apr, 2014 @ 4:16pm 
Like Krieg would say it, Too many icons
Scrotal Recall 12 Jan, 2014 @ 12:22am 
honestly the Love thumper is a better sheild for you, roid damage is more damage in BXR, pluss the grenade wouldnt help much either, scince youre up close so much throwing that out would just be scuicide... and is you need a weapon with a blade attachment thats above 50%, Kreig was coded with a scaling melee/level that just makes it weaker to use the 50, so something like law would prove more usefull. lastly though is the class mod, why not a sickle? getting additional benifits from things like STV and ETR to make the BXR or RTB more potent.
۞𝕤𝕢𝕦𝕚𝕕۞ 13 Dec, 2013 @ 11:37pm 
@Elithunter0015 yup!
Deathconsciousness 11 Dec, 2013 @ 1:40pm 
Krieg is such a badass.
And whats funny is you can't die except for killing YOURSELF :P
(By the way, anyone got Borderlands 2 GOTY for 30 Dollars?)
Fishbanana 3 Dec, 2013 @ 3:54pm 
I'd probably say that if you were to continue, go down the bloodlust tree for further melee damage boosts and Bloodsplosion for big things. Massive melee + Slag + Bloodsplosion chains = literally nothing surviving. Mania can also help with quick bloodlust stacks.
jeffy 26 Nov, 2013 @ 5:51pm 
yes when i play as krieg i focus on having as much health as possible with mania tree
becasue more health means a bigger 33 perenct bar (makes it easier to use release)
and morehealth means more time to get a kill to get health back
i use a rough rider most of the time at op 8 i have more then 3 million health
and when playing ealier in the game roid sheilds are always good to have, especially love thumper was so fun to use, and flame of firehawk is crazy too