Team Fortress 2

Team Fortress 2

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BlacKy's expert MvM - The in depth guide
Av BlacKy #SlavaIsraelini
This is a guide that will show you how to play on expert MvM, which classes to pick for efficient tours, loadouts, upgrades, and much more.
   
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Introduction
So, got tired from Mecha Engie's Bigrock map? Advanced is too easy for you but you're keep dying while playing in expert? This is a guide you would like to read.
The point of this guide is to give you both basic and advanced guidelines of how to play on expert MvM. Expert mode is by far harder than advanced mode, and therefore should be taken very seriously.
I will gather here as much info as i can about what you're about to meet in any map (not just in general), and in any wave (!). I will note the best loadouts which, in my opinion, should always be played with.
Everything i'm about to say here have proven to work 90% of the time, while the other 10% is mostly due to an unexperienced party. I know that there are other options to complete Operation Gear Grinder, but for what i've seen, this is one of the best options, if not the best.

So, lets get started, shall we?



*NOTE*

This guide doesnt cover the Sniper class at all. If you wish to snipe at expert MvM, you should go read my sniping guide at expert MvM.
http://gtm.steamproxy.vip/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=172843807
Classes
In expert MvM you have pretty much a limited choice of which class to pick, as some classes wont be as much effective as others, since in expert MvM effectiveness is the key, there will be no point in reminding the classes which shouldnt be played.

Overall, 90% of the time played at expert MvM you will see this class distribution: engineer, 2 heavies, pyro, demoman and of course, the scout. There could be a slight change depending on your on-going experience through expert MvM, as some players tend to pick 1 heavy and 1 soldier, instead of 2 heavies. If something like this happens in your team, please look at the soldier's tour count, as if he has a decent amount of tours done (15+), it wont be necessary to tell him to switch to heavy since he probably knows what he is doing, but if he has less tours than expected, you should ask him to change to whatever is needed. If he refuses or simpy wont reply back, dont hasitate to votekick him, hopefully the next player to join will know which class to pick.

I will note this right now: DO NOT HESITATE TO VOTEKICK PEOPLE WHICH SHOW LACK OF EXPERIENCE WHILE THE GAME IS MOVING. This is expert MvM, not bootcamp. If they want to practice, this is definately NOT the place for that. I will Also note that in expert MvM, the key to win is firepower, firepower and again, firepower! Which means: No spies, medics, and sometimes soldiers too, should be allowed into play. No matter how good they are, the firepower they will produce will be significantly lesser than the mentioned classes above.
Loadouts - Part 1
  • Heavies:

    You should always use the Brass Beast, sandvich and G.R.U.
    The expert heavy can protect himself well enough to sustain enough damage from incoming robots, so the glove's minicrits wont affect much, especially on later waves when you have built up your resistances.

    Primary: The Brass Beast is essential for pure DPS (damage per second), as a combo of a good Engy and Heavy will keep the Heavy in one location, always, while the Engy will protect its own buildings. Its worth noting that the heavy can take turns in taking the damage for the sentry and vice versa, while standing a bit before and after the sentry, altho should notice if the engy is getting pissed at not being able to pick up/repair his sentry because of that. I'd suggest to use the stock Minigun only if when your Engy is moving his buildings alot, so you wont be bothered with keeping the pace looking for his nest. Take that for your consideration.

    Secondary: You wont be using the sandvich on yourself much often, if at all, but something that i really like to do is to throw it to whoever needs it while they dont have any health-kit/dispenser close by, or just throwing it to the center of the attention on setup time just before the round begins, while you will be camping from afar.

    Notes on tanks: There is a very old urban legend that a +3 melee speed on Warrior's Spirit + a Buffalo Steak Sandvich will make more DPS than any minigun (including the beast). For that matter, you can try this once on a tank to see how it goes, but I would not recommend it, since you will be having to spend 600 credits on a +3 melee speed, which is a luxury you cant afford (not on expert mode anyway).

  • Engineer:

    Primary: You should always use the Rescue Ranger. With the Ranger, the Engy can pick up his buildings from anywhere to get away from sentry busters one second before they explode, or just pulling out his buildings from danger zones AT HIGHEST EFFICIENCY.

    Secondary: Wrangler is a must! If you have never wrangled a sentry, dont even try being an Engy on expert mode. Its not only for tanks, but also goes incredibly well against giants and especially super scouts, while giving you twice the firing speed (which stacks with the upgrade bonuses of course), it also absorbs +66% of all incoming damage, which works wonders when having a giant heavy/soldier near you. Simply wrangle a few seconds, then switch to the wrench for repairs, then wrangle some more, etc. etc.

    Melee: The stock wrench is the superior. Southern hospitality is a bad choice since while having 20% higher fire vulnerability on yourself with it, pyros are a real threat on expert mode (especially at mannworks which has giant pyros). Eureka Effect wont do any good since you will have to run away from busters, and you wont be able to pick up buildings with that weapon, and there is no much need in its alt fire on MvM. The Jag is the 2nd best option for the stock wrench, but still isnt as superior as the stock, mostly because spies will harass you at any given time when they appear, thus hitting them with a -25% less damage melee isnt as effective, plus its +30% built rate isnt important at all, since a good Engy will always use his building canteens (talking from self experience, i have NEVER had to build any building from scratch without using a canteen, thats just stupid, it costs only 50 credits, go buy it!).

  • Scout:

    The Scout doesnt have much of a dilemma of which weapons to use. Mad Milk is a MUST as a secondary.

    Melee: I have never tried the Sandman on MvM, only the Fan o'War, which should be a better choice since you dont need to spend any credits for it to get effective minicrits on robots.

    Primaries: Shortstop and Soda Popper have an awful DPS, the Baby Face Blaster is, of course, the worst choice for MvM since you will be jumping alot mainly to dodge rockets, so the only question you need to ask is "Scattergun or FaN?". That depends on your skill to knockback the enemy robot backwards with the FaN, or just placing some relatively-further shots with the Scattergun. I use the FaN since its a good practice on playing MvM Scout to knockback the bomb carrier, or even better, to throw them into a bottomless pit in Coaltown for a bomb reset (needs a very good timing). Unlike the flamethrower, u cannot upgrade the knockback's power, so you will always need to get really close to your target before applying a punch (comes with experience).
Loadouts - Part 2
  • Demoman:

    Melee: There is no better alternative than the stock Bottle, since the Eyelander and the Claidheamh Mor will reduce your health for extra heads and longer charge (respectively). You wont be using any shield anyway so the Mor is useless, and a Demoknight is 'just for laughs', especially on expert MvM, so you wont be needing the Eyelander aswell. The same common sense comes with the other melee's: The Persuader is useless since the robots wont drop ammo and you will need as much ammo as you can get (which you wont be able to farm from a dispenser, only ammo packs). The Half-Zatoichi is also useless from the same reason which the Eyelander is, as you wont be dealing melee combats in MvM. Its too dangerous to kill a robot with the Caber, since they all have, surprisingly, aimbot. Since you will have to run and protect the bomb or kill the medics of an Octo-Heavy (a giant heavy with at least 3 medics healing him), the Skullcutter is also worthless as it reduces your speed by 15%, and the Pain Train is.. well, you know. The result: Stock Bottle.

    Secondaries: I will ALWAYS prefer the Scot. Resistance over the stock, mostly because of its defending abilities. Is the bomb on the groud? No problem, just place 6-8 bombs there and the rest on where the robot activity is. Dont know which path the giant heavy will take at the setup time? No problem, just place 7 bombs on each path he can come from and when you see him, re-plant the wrong-positioned bombs with the right ones to make it 14 in total, then bomb its metallic ass away.

    Primary: What i hate abuot the Demoman is that it drains your credits so fast, you will never get the chance of using his primary weapon effectively, also as its not worthy to upgrade, so overall its better if you just reload your secondary rather on switching to the grenade launcher. After coming to this conclusion, the most efficient primary weapon is the Bootlegger / Ali Baba's, since you will be dealing heavy damage not just for the robots, but also to yourself. Adding +25 health will make it a bit more worthwhile for you to sticky jump, and whats wrong with a little extra health anyway?

  • Pyro:

    A skilled pyro will take advantage of his airblasting capabilities to blow away the bomb carrier back or into the pit, but what happens when you need to use the Phlog for a tank? To answer that question, lets look at the other teammate's experience: Assuming you have a 'decent+' wrangler Engy + 2 Brass heavies + critted Scot. Resistance Demoman in your team, u could live without the Phlog to use your utility abilities with the stock Flamethrower, while everybody else can deal with the tank. But what happens when you have a problem with a specific wave which you cant pass because the tank is breaching your team's firepower? Switch to a phlog to take care of the tank for that round, then (its better to) switch back to the Stock Flame. Backburner isnt as effective as the stock flame and the Phlog, since that as robots have aimbot, they will always look at (and attack) the closest person to them which is hitting them (aka, you), so forget about backburning them. Using the Axtinguisher with the Degreaser is also a bad idea since 1) You will have to spend (more) credits on melee attack speed to destroy giants effectively, and 2) You wont be using your utility melee weapons such as the Neon Annihilator and Homewrecker.

    Secondaries: I'd suggest to use either the regular Flare gun, or the Detonator. The Flare gun excels in hitting crit damage on burning robots form afar, and is even suggested to upgrade reload speed upgrades on it to make fast critted hits (90 damage per flare) on giants from afar. As this is the only effective tool for the pyro which offers high-range capabilities. The Detonator is mainly used to get rid of snipers, as they will strafe a bit between scoping shots, the Detonator has a much wider explosion rate rather than the regular Flare gun, assuming your timing of detonation is right.

    Melees: As stated before, there are only 2 worthy-to-use melee weapons for the pyro, and both of them are made mostly for support playing: The Homewrecker will unsap your hard hat's buildings within 1 hit, which saves the entire team if the Engy got backstabbed after the sap. So why using Neon if there is no water source on any MvM map? Milk, thats why. The Neon will work on any wet robot, that includes coating with Jarate or Milk. Since Jarate isnt an option, a milked giant will take full crits from you (if you're careful enough not to die), while also you can remove enemy sappers in 2 hits (not as effective as the Homewrecker, but still very decent).

    * * Note on the Phlog update * *

    Since May 13th 2013, the Phlog got nerfed badly. As from now on, it will take approx. 15 seconds to fill the 'mmph' bar on tanks, which makes this much harder to destroy them. Because of that, I have developed a new strategy which involves using the Back Scratcher. The Scratcher has +25% damage, and while combining it with a few melee speed upgrades (at least 2), its a very decent way to destroy tanks, as it takes no ammo at all, while having higher crit chance than a any primary weapon. This method comes with an upside and a downside: The upside is that you can keep your airblasting abilities, which keeps you as the best utility on the team, but the downside is that you wont be ready for surprize attacks, as you will have to quickly switch to your primary to deal with incoming robots / spies, while dealing with the tank all together.

    I have made a video of how to use the Back Scratcher in game, but only on Mannworks, as I've already uploaded Decoy and Coaltown before the Phlog update.
    Also, on the 'Upgrades & Canteens' section, I noted upgrading Phlog damage/ammo only, so if you choose to use the Scratcher instead of the Phlog, just convert the credits into melee speed.
Meet the maps - Decoy
Since the plan of this guide is to teach u how to play and win on expert MvM, its worth noting the 3 maps you will be playing at, with a full description on each map and wave. My plan is to note any map, with any of its waves, with any of the 'top' classes to play at.
* Click on the pics to enlarge *

~ Decoy: Desperation ~

The engineer should align his nest according to the path the robots will take:


And the tele exit should always be here:

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Wave starts with the pairs of soldier-medic teams which should effectively be taken down with the Scot. Resistance, While the pyro is pushing them away to make everyone's life easier. Heavies should not spam bullets on the soldiers since they will most likely uber. A good demo-pyro team should take them all down (12 pairs in total), while the heavies and the engy are dealing with the remains, and the scout is taking all the money.
Later on you will get a mix of the remaining robots on this wave: 30 bonked scouts, 20 pyros and 4 giant demomen. The scout should be focusing on tagging the demomen with his Fan o'War, while the sentry and the heavies will deal with them, with a support of the pyro's airblast.


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A relatively short wave. The scout should use the milk only on the super scouts, while tagging them and the giant heavies while everybody else just spam the corridor.


.

This is a tough wave due to the steel heavies. To effectively survive this wave, the scout must tag as many heavies as possible without dieing, while the sentry is using wrangler on them, while the pyro is airblasting them, while one of the heavies is using his rage boost to push them back. Meanwhile the demo should take care of the soldier-medic pairs. This wave is all about enduring the steel heavies.


.

This wave uses a different nest formation: Instead of the regular placement of the buildings, u should place them like this:



.

Everyone but the engy and demo should first stand near the tank spawn and hit the hell out of it. Before starting, tell the players that u have moved the dispenser forward, as they will be busy shooting at the tank, so they wont bother searching for it. When the 1st tank is destroyed, the scout should do his tagging thing and with a little help from the heavy's knockback rage, the giant soldiers will be destroyed in a short time. One more tank afterwards and thats it, as easy as pie.

.

This is a hard wave. Both heavies should have bullet penetration on this wave or else the giant deflector will block all incoming fire on the giant medic. Of course, u all should start hitting the medic first, so after the scout tags it, u should get a decent vantage point (easy for demoman, which can camp on the upper deck and use crit canteens with the stickies - 1 batch of critted stickies will insta-kill a giant medic), and then take down the medic, after that, the giant deflector is relatively easy. The problem with the deflector-medic pair is that the deflector can completely cover the medic from any damage, which is a serious problem for the engineer, as he needs to try different angles to take the giant medic asap. It is advised for the pyro to use a charged phlog on the deflector-medic pair while being ubered, as he is very vulnerable for bullets at point blank. Now do all that 4 times.

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This wave.. oh, this wave.. Assuming BOTH heavies have at least 1 rage upgrade on their beasts, this wave is really fun, and should be failing on purpose just to play it again (just kidding).
This wave tests every teammate's durability under an unstoppable rocket barrage. 16(!) giant rapid fire soldiers will be coming at u (mostly in pairs). If the scout is well trained on this wave, it should be very easy, but if not, u will most likely fail a few times. The scout must know which robot to tag first, and not just hitting random giants with the Fan o'War, since hitting the robots which are hidden from your team wont be effective at all since they wont get any damage (excluding the use of the bullet penetration upgrade). Also, i'd recommend to switch the engy's primary weapon to anything else just for that particular wave, since the rocket barrage will be aimed at your sentry, and picking it up everytime will cause u to get minicrits with the Rescue Ranger, so, u better change just for this wave.
Other than the giants, its pretty much straight forward. The demo will handle all heavy-medic pairs, while everyone else will be focusing on the remains.


.

You start this wave exactly the same as wave 4, which means that everyone should be standing near the tank's spawn. Right after the tank, 6 pairs of heavy-medics + 12 pyros will appear, and the demo will have to destroy them as fast as possible, since what happens next is pure hell: 4 giant heavies + 12 giant rapid fire soldiers + 12 super scouts will come towards you in time frame of about 2-3 minutes. Your main targets are obviously the super scouts, then everything else. If you are still alive after all that robot chaos, the last tank will appear, along with a sniper support.
Destroy the tank ==> The end.

Congratulations! You have been Manned up!
Meet the maps - Coaltown
~ Coaltown: Cataclysm ~

The engy should build his nest in the specified robot's path:

While placing the teleport exit in 1 of the following safe zones (depending on the robot's path):



.

The team should be splitting into 2 groups:
1) Scout, Demo and Pyro
2) 2 Heavies and Engy

The 1st team should focus on seperating the steel heavy-medic pairs using the demo's stickies, while the scout is tagging the heavies and the pyro is pushing them back using knockback.
The other team should then deal with the scouts and any remans from the heavy-medic pairs.
After a while, soldiers will appear and should be taken out by everyone. This wave is harder than it looks and parhaps the hardest wave 1 in expert MvM.

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This wave will start with a small flow of regular scouts, while shortly after that, will bring you a super scout chaos. YOU MUST form a human barricade against these super scouts, if even 1 of them gets away, prepare to reset the wave. Wrangling them while they are being milked is the common tactic, as the demo, pyro and the scout work together on sticky trap and airblasting them.
While dealing with the super scouts, 2 octo-heavies will spawn at 1 of the side spawn-paths of the map. It is crucial that the demo will know how to handle his stickies, as if he misses taking the medics at the 1st try, the engy's sentry will be most likely destroyed and wont be able to stop the scouts. The scout should only use his milk on the super scout and should only consider tagging the giant heavies after all the medics are down. Just like wave 1, the team should split up to deal with the scouts and the octo-heavies in parallel.

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On this wave, the engy should change his nest's formation just like at Decoy, placing his dispenser at the middle-left or middle-right side (again, depending on the robot's path) of the corridor like this:


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While the 2 heavies and pyro should stand near the tank's spawn, the demo should not be placing stickies for the tank, but only 7 on each of the side spawns, since right after the tank is spawned, the 3 giant deflectors will come. The demo must be prepared for them. The scout will tag them and 1 heavy will help to take down the deflectors while the other will deal with the tank till its down, then join in. The pyro should use his Phlog for this wave, as airblasting isnt as important as dealing with the tank as fast as possible. While in action, the engy should be aware of the 40 soldiers coming towards him, should he be placing his sentry at a higher ground.

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Using the same starting-formation as the previous wave, everyone should be focusing on tanks this time. Phlog is a must, same as crit canteens. Later on, 2 octo-heavies will spawn and the demo would have to do his thing with the medics (mentioned in earlier stages of the guide). If there is time, the pyro should switch to the stock flame after the tanks are down so he can push back bomb carriers.

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Pyro should keep his stock flame for this round, as airblasting is a key feature in this wave. Also this is a nigtmare wave for him since he will have to deal with 112 critted Eyelanders, which excels in harassing your teammates at close range. Not to mention the heavies and engy should have to handle 6 rapid fire soldiers, the scout must tag them front-to-back to effectively destroying them one by one, not before the demo will get rid of their medics (at 1:1 ratio).

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This wave will remind you wave 5 in Decoy, as you will see the 4 deflector-medic pairs here aswell. Same strategy is applied here: Sticky traps + tagging the medics first, all while the heavies will use their rage on each pair, plus a charged pyro Phlogger to the mix. The scout must remember not to waste milk on the deflector-medic pairs, but to keep it for the 5 super scouts ahead.

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The last wave. Has 6 tanks, more than any other wave in any official mvm map. The wave will start with delivering 5 tanks in a time difference of approximately 60 seconds between eachother. By the time you reach this wave, your heavies should have +20% fire rate (at least), same as your engy, and the demo should almost fully upgrade his Scot. Resistance. Survived the 5 tanks? Now u will have a medium sized horde of small robots which wont be an issue for you. After those are down, the last tank will arrive along with 4 giant heavies. If you can somehow ignore those heavies, do that. Its best if your whole team will just concentrate on the tank, since after its down, the wave will end, no matter how many other robots are still alive (in most cases, the 4 giants will take the opposite path to the tank. Use it for your advantage).

Note: If you ask me personally, whoever designed this wave, did so with a poorly manner, as the 4 giants arent doing much damage since nobody should be focusing on them. If they were arriving at the middle stage of the map, this wave could have been much, much harder.

*Congratulations! You have been Manned up!*
Meet the maps - Mannworks
~ Mannworks: Mannslaughter ~

Before i'll get started, its important to note that some teams would prefer a small change on class distribution, comparing to my suggested one at the start of this guide. The change will consist that the demo would be a 3rd heavy for the 1st 2 waves, since there is no need of sticky traps on those waves, but there are a lot of small scouts which need to take care of using a 3rd Brass Beast. That specific player should not, by mistakenly, upgrade anything as heavy, since he will be changing back to demo at the start of wave 3.
*This is purely a suggestion, not a must.*

As usual, i will start with the nest: Should be placed at 1 of the following locations, depending on the robot's path:

As for the tele exit, should be placed either here, or here:


.

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This wave consists as 7 groups of a giant demoman and 4 steel heavies. The easiest way to defeat them is by milking each group at once while the demo lowers their total health with a sticky trap and the 2 heavies and engy finish them off. A small chunk of pyros will come along these groups, but no threat from thenat all. Expect a few spies near the engy's nest. If your demo has changed into a 3rd heavy, simply tell him to stand along at the main building (where there is 2 medium health kits and 1 medium ammo pack in between. He will get some damage from the demoman, while getting health from the milked robots, so overall he should be fine.

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This wave is perhpas the easiest at this tour. 100 charged melee scouts shouldnt be an issue for 3 heavies + the engy, but perhaps a problem for the scout and the pyro, as the pyro must get close to them to be effective, he should spend 2 upgrades on crit resist for this wave + 1 health on kill. the scout must be aware that some enemy scouts will die at an earlier stage of the map, so the money will be scattered around. Everyone else should have an easy job to pick off 100 weak melee robots + 8 giant charged soldier-medic pairs. These medics are using quick-fix, so they wont be needing any sticky traps to restrain their uber ability.

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This is where it get serious. The 3rd heavy should now be switching to a demo and start upgrading his Scot. Resistance, he must also know where exactly to place his sticky bombs, since a horde of 12 super scouts are heading his way. While the super scouts are on their way, 2 tanks will spawn simultaneously, so the pyro must use his Phlog to take them both, as effectively as possible (its better for the pyro to 1st deal with the more distanced tank, since it'll be alone and without any robot activity). The engy must relocate his sentry to act as a barrier to block the super scouts (while using his wrangle on the super scouts), as shown here:

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Finally, it all comes down to how effectively the scout can handle his thrown milk, As even 1 missed milk throw should send 1 super scout right through your defenses and into the hatch.
After all the super scouts and tanks are destroyed 20 soldiers and pyros will spawn, finishing with 8 octo-heavies. The demo should take care of these.

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This wave is the 2nd hardest wave in MvM, as it will consist with one of the hardest robots to destroy: a horde of deflector-heavies. A pack of 10 of These robots can make quite a punch, so you better be careful when dealing with them, as its best to have around 2+ bullet resistance at the start of this wave, plus making sure the scout is milking them all. Alongside these robots you will geta constant flow of 11 giant demomen and 6 giant pyros. These pyros cannot be underestimated, since if they get too close to your nest, everyone will be burned to death, as they have more health than you might think. This wave will continue with the usual small robots and will be finished with some Eyelanders robots, nothing too fancy.

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The final wave, also known as the hardest official wave at MvM, ever. You wont get a chance to rest on this wave, starting with 2 tanks, then giants soldiers and demomen, then a horde of deflector heavies, and of course 20 steel giants, which are pretty hard to kill while dealing with all the other stuff u have to deal with here. At around that point, you will get 2 more tanks, which will test your pyro's experience. Destroy the tanks ==> The end.
BOTH heavies must have rage upgrade on to keep the robots out of the bomb site as long as possible. Eventually they will breach, tho, its only a matter of time. Lucky for you, the medics on this wave arent a problem at all, being only 8 in total.

*Congratulations! You have been Manned up!*
Dealing with support robots
This section is dedicated on how to deal with the support robots on MvM, and what each class needs to do in order to keep the pressure on and not die because of them.

  • Spies

    "Just turn your weapons down and walk away".
    Spies are perhaps the biggest threat u will find as a support class. You can be the best player in the world, but it wont save you from a single backstab if not paying attention currectly, therefore u must be aware of your sorroundings and use your advantages as the specific class that you are playing. This means that if playing as an engineer, the main target of the spy, you will have to look behind you when the announcer says that there are spies on the map. This includes the heavies aswell, as they will almost always be around the engy's nest, their job is to decide between themselves on whoever keeps fighting the robots, and whoever is spychecking with this minigun. If the pyro isnt busy much, he could do his elite job as spychecking. The scout and the demo usually wont have any issues with spies, since they are located further away from the engy's nest, altho they should still be aware of them.

  • Snipers

    "I'm gonna turn ya into colored rain". Snipers are the most underrated support robots in MvM, as you will most likely think "There's no chance that i will die from a sniper, not today". Well guess what, today you will. Lucky for you, and weirdly enough, support snipers will never headshot u, but only bodyshot. As they are always located far away from the 'action area' in the map, only a long range class should be effective at picking off snipers, as the best candidates are the scout and a wrangled sentry gun. Its usually the scout's job to pick off snipers, as the engy will most likely be busy with the main robot threat, and the scout can hold off his money picking for a few seconds. Another decent candidate is the demo, altho not as effective as the scout or the engy, he chould kill whichever sniper is in medium range comparing to himself.

  • Sentry Buster

    SENTRY BUSTER!! "Beep.. beep.. beep beep beepbeepbeep... *POOF!* "
    How annoying are they? Well, that depends on the experience your engy has, as if he knows how to handle a sentry buster while in the wave's rush hour, this shouldnt be a problem for anyone. The engy should use his Rescue Ranger to maximize his defensive capabilities, and that includes saving his sentry from the buster, as just in the last second, pulling it off while the buster detonates for nothing. Try running with your sentry to an isolated place so u wont endanger your team. If you have 2 heavies camping your nest, its better to be even more prepared, as to take the sentry a bit further away from the nest, and then right mouse click your sentry when it comes. Be aware that u must have at least 130 metal in order to remotely pick up buildings with your ranger. If u dont have enough metal in that short notice, just manually pick it up, as even if its riskier, you and your sentry should be fine by the end of the day. Busters arent worth killing or milking, as they are very fast and have decent health. If nothing is in the wave while they come, a heavy with a knockback rage upgrade should hit them for filling up the rage meter. Assuming you're camping at the engy's nest and he isnt paying attention for the upcoming buster, or simply dead, u should use your cat instincts and run away before you'll be busted aswell.
Upgrades & Canteens
On this section i will cover what you need to know about the upgrade shop, as well as canteen power ups. I will be focusing on each class individually, while listing the upgrades each class should buy depending on an average budget of +700 credits per wave. I will also mention the best canteen to use for each class. The negative numbers inside the brackets will determine the credit cost of that specific upgrade.

  • Heavy
    - Crit canteen (some would prefer Uber canteen, but Crit canteen works better with Brass Beast. This it purely my own opinion, you should try both and see where you get better results.

    Notes:

    * Saying 'bullet resist / blast resist' and then 'blast resist / bullet resist' on the next wave means that if you were buying bullet resist on the first wave, buy blast resist on the second wave, and vice versa.
    * The number after each upgrade will mention the cost of credits for that particular upgrade.
    * I actually DID calculate the cost of fast respawn fee, but it has been averaged out from the formula (before reaching the 700 amount of credits per wave.


    Wave 1 - 400 credits balance: +25 health on kill (-200), crit canteen x2 (-200)
    Wave 2 - 700 credits balance: bullet / blast resist x1 (-350), +25 health on kill (-200)
    Wave 3 - 850 credits balance: blast / bullet resist (-350), projectile penetration (-400)
    Wave 4 - 800 credits balance: bullet / blast resist (-350), knockback rage / +10% firing speed (-350)
    Wave 5 - 800 credits balance: blast / bullet resist (-350), +10 firing speed / knockback rage (-350)
    Wave 6 - 800 credits balance: destroy projectiles (-600), crit canteen x2 (-200)
    Wave 7 - 700 credits balance:
    On Decoy: blast resist (-350), knockback rage (-350)
    On Coaltown: +10% firing speed x2 (-700)

  • Engineer
    - Building upgrade canteen

    Wave 1 - 400 credits balance: +10% melee attack speed (-200), building upgrade x2 (-100), dispenser range (-100)
    Wave 2 - 700 credits balance: dispenser range x1 (-100), max metal capacity x2 (-400)
    Wave 3 - 900 credits balance: +25% bullet resist (-350), +25% blast resist (-350), building upgrade (-50)
    Wave 4 - 850 credits balance: +100% building health (-400), +10% firing speed (-350)
    Wave 5 - 800 credits balance: +10% melee attack speed x2 (-400), +25% bullet resist (-350)
    Wave 6 - 750 credits balance: +100% building health (-400), building upgrade x3 (-150)
    Wave 7 - 900 credits balance: +10% firing speed x2 (-700)

  • Scout
    - No canteen. The scout will max his resistances quite fast, and since his milk and money picking are a heal source for him, he wont be needing any canteen.

    Wave 1 - 400 credits balance: -35% speed on target (-200), +10% speed (-200)
    Wave 2 - 700 credits balance: +25% bullet resist (-350%), +25% blast resist (-350)
    Wave 3 - 700 credits balance: +20% milk recharge rate (-250%), +25% bullet resist (-350)
    Wave 4 - 800 credits balance: +20% milk recharge rate (-250), +25% blast resist (-350), +10 speed (-200)
    Wave 5 - 700 credits balance: +20% milk recharge rate (-250), +25% fire resist (-300)
    Wave 6 - 850 credits balance: projectile pelentration (-400), +10% speed (-200)
    Wave 7 - 950 credits balance: +25% blast resist (-350), +25% bullet resist (-350), 20% reload speed (-250)

  • Demo
    - Crit canteen.

    Note: All the weapon upgrades would be pointed for the demo's secondary, as he will have boots as his primary weapon.

    Wave 1 - 400 credits balance: +20% reload speed (-250), crit canteen (-100)

    Wave 2 - 750 credits balance: +25% blast resist (-350), +20% reload speed (-250), crit canteen (-100)
    Wave 3 - 750 credits balance: +25% bullet resist (-350), +10% firing sped (-200)
    Wave 4 - 900 credits balance: +25% bullet resist (-350), +25% blast resist (-350), crit canteen (-100)
    Wave 5 - 800 credits balance: +20% reload speed (-250), +25% damage (-500)
    Wave 6 - 750 credits balance: +10% speed x2 (-400), +25% bullet resist (-350)
    Wave 7 - 700 credits balance: + 25% damage (-500), crit canteen x2 (-200)

  • Pyro
    - Uber canteen.

    Notes:

    * All the basic upgrades which im stating below are for the stock flame thrower, unless said otherwise.
    * Use your own decision of when to play with the stock flame thrower or with the Phlog, base your decision on what is needed on the specific wave, and on your own playstyle.

    Wave 1 - 400 credits balance: +25 health on kill (-200), +25% airblast force x2 (-200)
    Wave 2 - 700 credits balance: +25% bullet resist (-350), +25% blast resist (-350)
    Wave 3 - 700 credits balance: +10% speed x2 (-400), +25 health on kill (-200), uber canteen (-75)
    Wave 4 - 725 credits balance: +25% bullet resist (-350), +50% ammo capacity (on phlog) (-250), uber canteen (-75)
    Wave 5 - 750 credits balance: +25% damage (on phlog) (-400), +25% blast resist (-350)
    Wave 6 - 700 credits balance: +25% damage (on phlog) (-400), uber canteen x2 (-150)
    Wave 7 - 850 credits balance: +25% damage (on phlog) (-400), +25% blast resist (-350), uber canteen (-75)
Videos
I will upload a full game of any of the 3 maps to show you ladies and gentleman how its done in action. All videos were made in full HD, so make sure u watch it that way :P



My 1st movie is in coaltown as the Demoman:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


Part 4:



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My 2nd movie is at Mannworks, playing as Engineer:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 3rd movie is at Coaltown, playing as Pyro:

Part 1:


Part 2:


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My 4th movie is at Mannworks, starting as Heavy and then switching to Demo:

Part 1:


Part 2:


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My 5th movie is at Coaltown, playing as Heavy:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 6th movie is at Mannworks, playing as Heavy:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 7th movie is at Decoy, playing as Pyro:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 8th movie is at Decoy, playing as Demoman:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 9th movie is at Coaltown, playing as Engineer:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 10th movie is at Coaltown, playing as Scout:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 11th movie is at Mannworks, playing as Pyro:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 12th movie is at Mannworks, playing as Scout:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 13th movie is at Decoy, playing as Scout:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 14th movie is at Decoy, playing as Engineer:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


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My 15th movie is at Decoy, playing as Heavy:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:

Summary
This is it.

I hope you were enjoying reading my guide. It took quite a time to gather all this information.
Feel free to comment on anything. If throwing a suggestion, i may add it to the guide if i like it. Also feel free to check my grammar, as i would like to fix any grammar issues, so please, do tell me, even the slightest of things.
I will try to answer some of your questions, if you have any.


Yippee ki yaa he yay kyaaah kayo!



-BlacKy
125 kommentarer
c9h13no3 21 apr, 2018 @ 14:07 
Not the worst guide. You're wrong about the scout (Shortstop has the highest DPS, due to reloading the clip all at once, and being able to upgrade the clip size). Scout is also the worst MvM class, and should only be used against tanks. Crit-a-Cola is a good option against tanks as a secondary.

Also, leaving out spy, which is probably the 2nd or 3rd best MvM class is a huge error. Our standard 4-man strategy for expert Mannworks was spy, pyro/heavy, engy, demo/sniper.
Dispentryporter 27 apr, 2016 @ 21:33 
Soda popper and shortstop don't have awful dps. When upgraded they have over 400 dps, higher than any other scout weapon.
thundeR 10 jan, 2016 @ 9:38 
Spy is INSANELY USEFUL when there are giant heavies (The ones that have a lot of health but can be 1 shot back-stabbed) being pocketed by some ind of medic. Sap them when they are in a small group, so that you can maximize your sapper's power, and then just backstab away.
Rise - of - ZEN 20 jan, 2015 @ 22:33 
This guide may be old, but heck its a darn good one.
BlacKy #SlavaIsraelini  [skapare] 8 aug, 2014 @ 0:58 
This guide a uberly old, and i dont intend to update it for two cities, sorry. I was writing it back in the expert days when mecha tours just came out, and when the phlog got nerfed.
Grey Star, The Rival Defender 7 aug, 2014 @ 19:18 
Well, ever since two cities came out soldier has become more of a team carry in the later waves, with enough upgrades he's basically killing everything, but he needs a lot of credits in order to do so. So yeah, in terms of firepower, a second heavy wouldn't be bad.
♣Dr.Pillz♣ 7 jul, 2014 @ 14:29 
The only thing i dissagre with is that spy is no usefull because he can replace a demo or a scout if his team isn't a just killing everything and ignoreing the money (god i hate when this happens).
BlacKy #SlavaIsraelini  [skapare] 30 jan, 2014 @ 2:21 
The common layout for two cities is Heavy, Medic, Soldier, Engy, Demo and Scout. But it could be play in many other layouts aswell. Usually the Soldier is the most replacable class so u can do 2nd heavy instead of a soldier, or whatever u wish.
Littlefinger [EST] 30 jan, 2014 @ 2:16 
Thanks for quick reply. :) Which class should be replaced with medic? I'm guessing pyro but I'm not sure.
BlacKy #SlavaIsraelini  [skapare] 30 jan, 2014 @ 0:44 
This guide has been long forgotten. sorry about it. medic is a very valuable class after the two cities update. and should always be picked in a team. I have stopped updating this guide before the new mvm came out.