I took part in one short one day HOI4 mp game (was playing as Canada) where it was impossible for Axis to beat a British-French-Canadian force in 1939 ( the game was soon over then / maybe German and other Axis players weren`t performing very well in that particular game ). Therefore it s good imo that in our game only UK is allowed to send troops to France in 1939.

My impression regarding forts is that they can be constructed faster than in HOI3 and that the penalty each forts level gives to the attacker is higher. Guess even if the use of the french national focus ( extend the maginot line ) would be not allowed to use before 1939 it`s not too difficult as France to construct a level 5 fortification chain all along the Belgian border. In HOI3 I can`t remember that French players could achieve level 5 forts in all provinces all along the Belgian border unless the army buildup was neglected completely. So I am also a bit concerned that this could unbalance the game which wouldn`t be good if we want to achieve a long game. Guess we need to gain experince about that in the frist HOI4 mp game. Guess after country distribution is done right now a rule addition would only be possilbe if Allies players agrree about that.

Very interesting. In HOI III it is easy for Germany to get past the fortress line. With the right micromanaging Germany can even get a positive adjustment of 120% attack force when attacking forts in HOI III.

I have not looked at this in detail in HOI IV yet. But it's not possible to copy the HOI III method at least.
Vs the AI my Germany test run did not have much difficulty getting into France but I did not look at the fortresses much.

If you believe we need a rule I would agree.

Yes, you can get some positive buffs against it, and I have not had the chance to test it in HOI 4. I would think however, that level 5 forts behind a river would be pretty nasty to assault.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Capitalismus:

Yes, you can get some positive buffs against it, and I have not had the chance to test it in HOI 4. I would think however, that level 5 forts behind a river would be pretty nasty to assault.

I like to avoid rules if possible.
We should test the forts as soon as possible and get back to this.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von nord00:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Capitalismus:

Yes, you can get some positive buffs against it, and I have not had the chance to test it in HOI 4. I would think however, that level 5 forts behind a river would be pretty nasty to assault.

I like to avoid rules if possible.
We should test the forts as soon as possible and get back to this.

I tested this just quickly now with some saves and looks like the forts would be more difficult for Germany now in HOIIV.
So if France can spam forts at low cost I agree we need to limit this.
We should try out playing France in SP maybe. Any done that ?

Ursprünglich geschrieben von nord00:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von nord00:

I like to avoid rules if possible.
We should test the forts as soon as possible and get back to this.

I tested this just quickly now with some saves and looks like the forts would be more difficult for Germany now in HOIIV.
So if France can spam forts at low cost I agree we need to limit this.
We should try out playing France in SP maybe. Any done that ?

could be very interesting to hear what the result is.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von firemind521:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von nord00:

I tested this just quickly now with some saves and looks like the forts would be more difficult for Germany now in HOIIV.
So if France can spam forts at low cost I agree we need to limit this.
We should try out playing France in SP maybe. Any done that ?

could be very interesting to hear what the result is.

France is difficult. It is easy to stumble left or right away from UK and the Allies.
Try it, have fun.
But the forts are costly as France has very little production. A fort level looks to take 20 days or so for a 15x Civ factory, there are 8 forts to build up 8 level.
There would be no Civ fac for other builds.

how about a cap on 5 forts? I actually thought there allrdy was that in the rules.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Capitalismus:

how about a cap on 5 forts? I actually thought there allrdy was that in the rules.

all the same for me, it looks to be to costly for France either way. Forts can work to connect riverlines like in Russia, maybe. But the cost for France for even 5 level fortline is to much. France has to take Fortification Focus and Alpine Forts first. Thats 210 days for 16 levels of Forts. Also it has other costs that could be just as bad.
Then if France should build 3x8 fort levels, to get all to 5 on the border with Belgium that would cost 7500 Civ Fac days. Then what army would France guard the forts with?

The cost for Germany is to make a template, say "Sturm 38", put in some things the could wait for another year, and whoala as they say in France, the linebreaker is served. After the fortline is broken its all clear to Paris.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Capitalismus:

how about a cap on 5 forts? I actually thought there allrdy was that in the rules.

we already have rule 4.4

4.4: No forts above level 5

yes, I thought so :)

Looks as we will not need rules regarding France and fort buildning. Lets see how it goes.