They're posting in the right place. I think Splits are generally full bundles, but especially those that are new. Leftovers are the cobwebby attic of Steam keys.

I think the Official Group Buy subforum should be re-opened for true group purchases, whether mass Happy Hour purchases, cases where there's a discounted price for five bundles (some Indie Gala), or those two-for-one bundles that are usually about $0.77 each (forgot which ones).

Following this, the Group Buy subforum should be re-named Bundle Splits. Leftovers remain as is.

I think that would keep everything better organized.

Technically "left overs" are the keys you don't want from a bundle. That's what a bundle split is. The keys you don't want.

Originally posted by chairmankao:

I think the Official Group Buy subforum should be re-opened for true group purchases, whether mass Happy Hour purchases, cases where there's a discounted price for five bundles (some Indie Gala), or those two-for-one bundles that are usually about $0.77 each (forgot which ones).

Following this, the Group Buy subforum should be re-named Bundle Splits. Leftovers remain as is.

I think that would keep everything better organized.

+1 to that

Originally posted by Need a Teleporter:

Technically "left overs" are the keys you don't want from a bundle. That's what a bundle split is. The keys you don't want.

I look as a bundle split as a shared purchase. Also, keep in mind that a number of members have a running leftovers page that they continuously update. Bundle splits are generally newer bundles that are posted on a one-off basis. Keeping them separate will reduce clutter.

Agreed (and previously stated). We need "Group buys" and "Bundle splits" subforums, while the "Official" one is currently useless. The last "Official" thread is almost one and a half years old, while bundle splits and group buys are lumped together. It seems pretty obvious that change is needed.

Everyone is still a bit confused.

For bundles that are still active, meaning, the bundle can still be purchased for sale by anyone, bundle split is the proper terminology, and those currently go in the main forum.

For bundles that have expired, meaning, the bundle is no longer available for general sale, the remaining games that may have been part of a split are supposed to be moved to the leftovers subforum.

In other words, bundle splits are for active, currently for sale bundles, while leftovers are for expired, no longer for sale bundles. If the forum was being managed properly, whenever a bundle expired all the threads related to it in the main forum would be moved to the leftovers subforum or there would be rules that require members to do the equivalent. Currently, each member is allowed to determine whether to do that on their own, and most do it by listing the remaining games of an expired bundle in a dedicated leftovers thread that they maintain, but the old threads often still remain open in the main forum and there is quite a lot of clutter.

You also have an increasing number of members who maintain threads in the main forum that contain active splits and leftovers combined, and this tends to yield really huge, unwieldy, and annoying threads that are often confusing and hard to navigate. I personally see this as violating the spirit of how the forum is organized, but the mods don't seem to mind it.

Lastly, the idea has been brought up before that we should split the main forum into separate group buy and bundle split sections, repurposing the old and defunct Official Group Buys section into a regular section where all the IndieGala Happy Hour reservation threads and whatnot can go. I'm in favor of that as it would make things a bit easier to see.

The only question would be whether to make Bundle Splits or Group Buys the default forum when you first bring up the discussions. In other words, one of them has to be the main forum, and the other a sub-forum, and the question is, which should it be?

I'm not sure whether you're stating your point of view or speaking according to some rule or agreement, but in any case I disagree.

Moving all threads whose associated bundle expires would be an unnecessary burden; the distinction should be between single-bundle splits (especially when the host has a "I'll only buy this if enough games are taken" approach) and lists of assorted leftovers from various previous bundles.

Let's say I'm looking for a game featured in a bundle from last February. Someone hosted a split but no one took that specific game. The bundle is over but if I see a thread with that bundle in the title and no DONE tag, I know I have a chance. Compare that to an infinite list of leftover threads and the benefit should be obvious. Yes, there's a search function, but the Steam forums/groups certainly don't shine in that field and many people like to stroke sold games instead of deleting their names, resulting in many false positives.

One thing I agree with is the bad habit of listing leftovers in a bundle split thread: it's mostly harmless but a link to your leftover thread should be enough.

Finally, I would elect the Bundle Splits forum as the main one, because it's more dynamic and active all the time. Group Buys tend to happen once a month or so and people will be subscribed to their threads of interest, anyway.

I don't expect this group to be too managed, but this specific change is easy to do and sorely needed.

I'm speaking mainly in terms of custom. That's the way I've observed people doing things for awhile in terms of how they've tended to handle the distinctions between splits and leftovers. I can't say that there are any rules, but then that begs the question, why have a leftovers sub-forum in the first place if you're not going to enforce or at least encourage it's use?

Every individual game that is a leftover was usually, if a member has been around long enough, once part of a split. So, if a thread is created for a split, where games have been purchased but there are remaining games that the host doesn't want, should those be immediately considered leftovers or not? The problem is that the leftover forum is not as well trafficked, so for an active bundle many would object to the practive of having to move games elsewhere where there were fewer eyeballs. That's why we don't make a distinction between a split where the games haven't been bought yet, and one where the games have been bought but merely leftover.

On the other hand, maybe what you are saying is that if you have a forum topic for a specific bundle, then that thread should just remain open forever until all the games are sold and there is no need to add those games to a leftover thread. That could work, except that's not been the practice or custom. Too often, when you go searching through old bundle split threads for games that appear to still be available, you find that the host has not updated the thread, and the games have often been sold and the thread is no longer accurate. Then you end up sometimes with someone searching around and bumping a bunch of obsolete threads, adding to the forum's first page clutter.

It's true that moderation is loose and users' behaviour not always ideal. Since I don't expect either of these two things to change, I wouldn't push for changes or solutions that require them to. Personally, I think the Leftovers section barely belongs here and would be better suited for the Trades section of Steamgifts (maybe with a FairTrade tag).

People want traffic for their threads? Fair enough, but it shouldn't be at the expense of usability. Sections in forums exist for a reason, after all. You can't have it all at once. All in all, I just wish Splits and Groups will be separated and people will be reasonable with their leftovers.

I agree with thenevemow. Make Bundle Split the default forum.

If people want a true Group Buy, force them to go through an extra click in the forum (having to click on the Group Buy sub-forum).

Also in favor of splitting group buys and bundle splits.

I'd make Group Buys the default forum, a) because that's the name of the group and b) because group buys, especially IG HH ones, do make up a big part of the traffic.

(I'm mainly here for the bundle splits, and I don't mind the extra click.)

Originally posted by thenevernow:

Group Buys tend to happen once a month or so

They happen around twice a week so 8 times per months with several hosts->threads each and up-to 40 buyers each. Thus in my view the biggest chunk of action/user-count.

However in the end having Group Buys & Splits in separate sub-forums is the essential needed change asap, which end up the default is less important to me.

My mistake, I forgot many IG bundles are bought in groups, I was only thinking of the ones that have a Happy Hour.

I still believe Splits should be the default forum, but I definitely agree this choice shouldn't stall the change.

Yay, they did this!